Female Super Hero Fan Film from Jesse V. Johnson on Vimeo.
I asked this on Twitter yesterday in light of the online buzz for Jesse V. Johnson’s Wonder Woman demo reel – I’m sorry, “Female Super Hero Fan Film” – but, what’s with the whole “Wonder Woman Vs. The Nazis” thing? I know that she is a product of the Golden Age and all, but it feels as if the character is seen as a period piece by non-comic-readers more often than not – The 1970s TV show was set in WWII, Joss Whedon’s mythical unmade movie was set in WWII, and now this demo reel. I don’t get it, to be honest. What’s with the seeming reluctance to allow Wonder Woman to be contemporary?
Twitter response included the suggestion that Nazis simply made the best villains for such a powerful character, but I’m not sure that I buy that – Otherwise, why don’t we see more Superman in WWII stories? For some reason, Wonder Woman – a character whose “stranger in a strange land” concept, mixed with the mythological aspects and the feminist angle, would seem to offer an amazing amount of material in any time period – feels oddly trapped in the past. Hey, DC Entertainment: You should really work on breaking this surreal preconception of the character.
February 28th, 2013 at 11:06 am
I think it’s an aesthetic choice more than anything.
With all of WW’s costume trappings (tiara, eagle emblem, star detailing), her visuals are so firmly rooted in patriotic nostalgia that she looks less dated fighting uniformed fascists.
Imagine the live action visual of her wading into battle in war-torn Syria.
February 28th, 2013 at 11:10 am
It is the “save Man’s world from war” mission statement. WWII is the best war for this in the last century(big and doesn’t have the divided public opinion of Vietnam or Korea). Your choices of bad guys are German nazis, the Japanese armed forces (too yellow menace), and the Italian Fascists (practically an afterthought in popular culture). If you were making a one-shot movie (prior to a JLA movie), then the Cuban Missle Crisis would be a good backdrop.
If you can come up with a new mission statement, then you can move her up to modern times, but I can’t think of a real world crisis that hasn’t been around for a while, so I think you fall back on a “Darkseid is invading” or “someone woke up the Titans” type issue.
February 28th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Wonder Woman is from an undiscovered island full of only women. The idea that such a place would still be undiscovered today seems kind of hard to believe. And I think that, when trying to break into a different medium, creators tend to like to make the suspension of disbelief as easy as possible.
It’s also a pretty easy leap to make to suggest that the island is either discovered because of the events of WWII or the Amazons reveal themselves because of the events of WWII.
February 28th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Only the first season of the 70s show was set in the 40s. Subsequent seasons saw the setting bumped up to the present day.
I think part of the answer is that Graeme is being too selective in his examples in order to make an artificial point, (the failed David Kelley pilot was nowhere near WW 2, and she didn’t arrive on Superfriends or Timm’s Justice League through a time warp) but to the extent that WW is often portrayed in the Second World War, I think it’s a tacit acknowledgement that she worked best as a character in her original incarnation. I think it’s at least arguable that her longetivity is down to marketing realities, quirks of publishing history and iconic nature as *the* female superhero at least as much as strength of core concept. This isn’t a criticism–Jack Cole’s Plastic Man and the original Captain Marvel also only really worked in the 40s and 50s, and they’re among the greatest superhero characters. Not everything is built for perpetuity. (Not to say WW hasn’t seen a few successful runs since the early days, but they’re few and far between.)
Anyway, my belief is that Nazis, with their leather fetishes and fascist obsession with discipline, resonate deeply with Marston’s sexual interests as expressed in the original strip–they complement all of the bondage imagery and dominance/submission dynamics, while providing a very butch, male counter to Marston’s odd form of feminism.
March 1st, 2013 at 6:16 am
It’s not like Captain America has ever stopped fighting Nazis
March 1st, 2013 at 9:12 am
American Patriotism, could be argued, was born in WW2. So star spangled heroes like Wonder Woman and Captain America look there best punching swastika bearing villains. So if you only have a couple of minutes to make a film the fastest way to establish who is a villain, conceptually and visually, use Nazis.
That being said, I have looked at my WW collection of comics and cartoons and only a minimal amount references WW2 and Nazis. And further more my favorite stuff used the Greek Gods and monsters which is a lot older than Nazis.
I don’t get the charge of stuck in the past. The simple use of spandex is in regards to what the strongmen used in the times the Circus was the pinnacle of entertainment. Most heroes are stuck in the past.
This is all you Graeme. Not us.
March 2nd, 2013 at 6:26 am
The real reason why Wonder Woman is stuck in the past because the Nazis is the perfect bad guy. The writer created a woman who suppose to come to the man’s world to show everyone to live in peace and together.Her famous villain was created during WWII.I still hope CW’S Amazon will finally appear on CW.
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Whedon’s unproduced film was not set in WWII either, it was very contemporary. You might be thinking of the spec script Warners bought prior to nixing Whedon’s version.
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:21 pm
“Save Man’s World from war”? One could make a credible argument about worldwide conflict now with terrorists.
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Graeme, Wonder Woman is often placed in the past because as an icon for feminism, it’s simply easier to show female oppression to far greater extremes without making contemporary audiences uncomfortable about it in the present day. In the past, the contrasts, the morality, the perspectives were more black and white while today public opinion is far more gray.
However, I agree with you and have long argued it would be far more interesting to show Wonder Woman (and similarly, Captain America) as a fish out of water in a contemporary setting where mores are not so black and white:
[to be continued]
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm
[Continued from 1st part]
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.tv/EwKv0xmyrKc/CrCHKeC_n5IJ
Which is why a contemporary Wonder Woman would be more interesting, to have that contrast, like Clark Kent in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, between the character and the world around her. It would be a great way of showing her struggles to deal with the culture shock from her home island to Man’s World and defining her character–or as one person summed it up:
[to be continued]
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:45 pm
[Part 3--Continued from 2nd part]
With WW the persona is plain and simple–literally. She’s the Old Knight in DRAGON HEART, one of the knights of CAMELOT, the old gunslinger from the Old West. That is she’s a warrior from a time when you put your heart on your sleeve. Disagreements were open and plain. There wasn’t all the politicking and spin. And when you were really mad, you didn’t just whine or sue or post
a nasty facebook entry or tweet, but you ‘took it outside’.
[to be continued]
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:55 pm
[Part 4] That’s Diana’s persona; why she would be a fish outta water in Man’s World. A superhero version of CROCODILE DUNDEE w/gender roles reversed. Trevor crashes on Themyscira and is the fish outta water among Amazons, monsters, Greek gods. Diana returns him home. She’s a fish outta water w/lawyers, marketing, agents, politicians, papparazzi & Hollywood–& the easy indifference to suffering on the doorstep of wealth.
March 2nd, 2013 at 3:56 pm
[Part 5] Diana feels more at ease when the monster shows up in NYC harbor for the grand finale.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.dc.universe/msg/a84c6e898799cfb7?hl=en
Of course, whether set in the past, present or future, execution is key, specifically, writing (it all begins with a well-told-tale), acting, directing, and, nowadays, marketing. Don’t hide from the story you’re telling and try to trick an audience into seeing a movie (or tv show). That’s a sure way to tick off the audience that shows up and hates what’s shown while driving away the potential audience that would have loved it (I’m looking at you Fox mis-marketing FIREFLY).
– Ken from Chicago
P.S. “If you can’t quote yourself, who[sic] can you quote?”–Ken from Chicago
March 3rd, 2013 at 6:02 am
This is a bogus premise, since Wonder Woman hasn’t been shown fighting Nazis that often. If there is a tendency to do her as a period piece it’s probably because the character is fundamentally campy and absurd, and modern versions have been no less absurd while entirely losing the original comics’ charm.
March 3rd, 2013 at 11:44 pm
and graemecracker gets it wrong again…
March 5th, 2013 at 5:46 am
To be fair to Graeme, Joe S. Walker, but he’s referring to how non-comics readers view Wonder Woman, and many of them recall the first season of the Lynda Carter series, where it was set in WW2 (or remember the Golden Age of Wonder Woman fighting Nazis in the comics).