Guys, when did you get to the point where you need this much hand-holding to enjoy your comics? It’s baffling to me–maybe because when I was a reader, this kind of thing came up all the time, and nobody thought anything of it. We either figured it out for ourselves, or waited and the answers revealed themselves. But it seems like now many of you guys are hovering on the balls of your feet looking for there to be something that’s not immediately spelled out so that you can kvetch about it. None of this is really that hard, at least from my point of view, and most often the answer comes down to “Wait for the next issue!” or “Don’t judge based on the four pages that are previewed on line, wait for the whole thing!” Is part of the enjoyment for some of you folks complaining about this stuff?
Tom Brevoort figures out the schimpfenfreude* of the Internet, it seems.
It’s an interesting question, though; are today’s readers complaining more about gaps in storytelling that would, in the past, have been filled in or glossed over by the reader? I’m uncertain as to whether or not that’s the case; there are certainly series that have had problems with narrative structure and/or explaining away things that haven’t just been solved by waiting to read the whole story, but in the case of complaining about the previews for Avengers vs. X-Men #7, there is a sense of “You’ve read three pages. Wait and see the whole book already,” definitely.
Part of me wonders whether the complaints are brought on by the nature of the Internet itself; that releasing the preview pages invites comment in a “nature abhors a vacuum” sense – not to mention the “First!” phenomenon where, whether the media or online commenters rush to have the earliest reaction to something regardless of whether or not there’s actually anything to say – and so there’s little point complaining about reaction to incomplete material when you’re the ones releasing said incomplete material in the first place and thereby inviting those comments.
Then again, my only complaint about the preview is that the X-Men seem to be acting like generic bad guys all of a sudden, so what do I know?
(* Warning: Contains made-up German words)
June 29th, 2012 at 9:15 am
This, coming from the guy who just a few days ago complained about the entirety of whatever story the “This is war” teasers were referring to, based solely on the teasers alone.
June 29th, 2012 at 9:48 am
I’ve noticed this trend myself. It used to be, an apparent plot hole was cause for speculation and maybe an explanation that would get you a No-Prize…now, people just complain that the writers and editors are idiots and berate them online. I guess it’s part of the trend where being a fan of something used to mean you enjoy it, and now it means you hate it, somehow.
I think part of it is due to storytelling changes as well — in the days of ubiquitous editors’ notes and heavy exposition, some of this stuff really was more explicit (if hamfisted). I recall an issue of Secret Wars where they had to stop and explain why Professor X had appeared on the planet in a wheelchair he no longer needed, and why Cyclops was back with the team again, etc.
Personally, I’m kind of glad when they don’t take up story pages with that kind of bookkeeping. But to be fair, they could have waited to release last week’s Wolverine & the X-Men issue until after AvX #7, if would make more sense that way.
June 29th, 2012 at 11:06 am
“None of this is really that hard, at least from my point of view, and most often the answer comes down to “Wait for the next issue!” or “Don’t judge based on the four pages that are previewed on line, wait for the whole thing!””
There’s an interesting discussion in there somewhere about how Marvel and DC readers no longer trust those creators enough to figure that questions in the story are raised consciously, rather than the result of negligent storytelling.
If the audience had the carefully cultivated confidence in these types of stories that everything, in the end, will make sense and come to a satisfying conclusion that rewards you for working your way past the uncertainties, I imagine fewer people would be complaining to Tom Brevoort.
June 29th, 2012 at 11:13 am
I’m torn. On the one hand, I agree with what Brevoort says in principle. On the other hand, there have been times when “character is acting weird” wasn’t a story point but just an example having a poor handle on the character. Plus as heavy handed as exposition could be, there’s something to be sad for its use in getting new readers up to speed or even reminding current ones what’s up since presumably folks aren’t memorizing everything they read. I miss editorial notes, too, for that matter. I don’t need the “last ish” ones, but when they’re referencing stories I know nothing about, I’d appreciate the pointer.
June 29th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
“Is part of the enjoyment for some of you folks complaining about this stuff?”
Y-E-S.
–J.
June 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
“There’s an interesting discussion in there somewhere about how Marvel and DC readers no longer trust those creators enough to figure that questions in the story are raised consciously, rather than the result of negligent storytelling.”
Nail on the head, Marc-Oliver Frisch. Nail on the head.
I think it’s a matter of readers having been burned too many times.
This was less of a problem when I started reading comics mostly because I started reading Marvel Comics under Jim Shooter, who was pretty rigid in what he required from the stories.
And as much as the internet might hurt the general reputation of fans, the same can be said of editors. Fair or not, the level of trust that used to be there just isn’t anymore.
June 29th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
The increasingly bitter antagonism between Marvel’s representatives and its own readers seems to be headed toward a point where the purchase of a new issue of a Marvel comic comes with Tom Breevort himself there to punch you in the groin, while you also get a free shot at him. Frankly, I can’t wait for that day.
June 29th, 2012 at 11:46 pm
I think part of why comic readers want a answer right away and don’t want to wait until next issue is because they don’t feel like they got enough bang for their bucks. When every month you have questions about this months issue and the answer is always buy the next issue there comes a point where some people will become dissatisfied with that answer.
June 30th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Why do you people keep listening to this guy?
The blind leading the blind
June 30th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
You m*****f***ers really NEED ketchup to enjoy your fries? Sometimes I forget to put it in the bag. Just stop bugging me and do without. I’m working really hard.
June 30th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
支持你,博主!
July 1st, 2012 at 10:30 am
These fries taste like SH**! Of course, I haven’t tasted them yet; but based on these four pictures I saw online these fries are TERRRIBLE!
July 1st, 2012 at 3:09 pm
How dare you judge Marvel’s upcoming comics according to the promotional images that Marvel itself released for no other reason than to persuade you to judge its upcoming comics!
July 1st, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Tom,
Also, back in my early days of reading comics, I didn’t need hand holding like restarting comics at issue 1 over and over again or changing costumes to match movies. I would pick up a good book, regarding of the issue number and “figure it out for myself.”
July 1st, 2012 at 3:56 pm
@graeme: Brevoort’s not complaining about gaps in the storytelling, though. His complaint is about how certain readers nowadays are ready to complain about something that hasn’t been IMMEDIATELY addressed. He’s saying that rather than waiting for the answers to come as a story continues to unfold, some fans– especially online, perhaps– are more than willing to call virtually any new, unexplained element a “plot hole.”
It’s funny, because the example Brevoort’s pointing out is (a)pretty egregious and (b)easy to explain away. The reason other comics haven’t shown the X-Men and the Phoenix Five hunting down the Avengers is because they take place BEFORE the final scene in AvX #6, just like Brevoort. Pretty simple.
July 1st, 2012 at 3:57 pm
just like Brevoort said*
July 1st, 2012 at 3:59 pm
We do not trust the writers anymore. We have seen a hundred creative teams last for 6 issues each and everyone doing their own thing. Continuity hardly exists anymore and we just don’t trust the people handling the comics anymore to understand who the characters are based on the character’s history. Lack of editorial control maybe?
July 1st, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Spoiled brats living in the age of instant gratification. It must kill half these guys to wait a whole month only to be “disappointed” time and time again. You have the power to control this people. You don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it. Unless Marvel, DC or the “indies” figure out how to make a tax out of it.
July 1st, 2012 at 6:26 pm
The last few times we got fries, they were undercooked and tasted wrong. Of course we’re not gonna buy any more.
July 2nd, 2012 at 1:46 am
“You don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it.”
Given that modern Marvel is selling in numbers that got Bob Harras fired as EiC a decade ago, I’d say a lot of people have already taken this advice.
July 2nd, 2012 at 4:12 am
支持你,博主!
July 2nd, 2012 at 5:38 am
I don’t really understand the “don’t judge by the preview” statement to be honest.
Surely a preview is put out there to give people a taster of the whole. So if they aren’t finding the taster exciting or interesting then are they really going to enjoy the full issue?
Would they be complaining about judging on the preview if all the comments were positive?
July 2nd, 2012 at 1:06 pm
“Given that modern Marvel is selling in numbers that got Bob Harras fired as EiC a decade ago…”
LOL! Wanna hear something funny? Gues what K-Box does for a living? He writes for a newpaper! HAHAHAHAHA! How’re those newspaper sales doin’ buddy?
July 2nd, 2012 at 3:30 pm
“How’re those newspaper sales doin’ buddy?”
Actually, my local small-town weekly newspaper is selling about as many copies per issue as the bottom half of Marvel’s sales list. Thanks for asking, though.
July 2nd, 2012 at 5:36 pm
You’re putting me on. I know newspaper sales are in the toilet, but you can’t expect me to believe that an actual newspaper is being outsold by four dollar collector magazines sold at specialty shops.
Look on the bright side: When your paper tanks in a couple of years and you’re out of a job you’ll have plenty of time to sit at home making graphs about how poorly all the comic books you pirate are selling.
July 2nd, 2012 at 6:05 pm
“I know newspaper sales are in the toilet, but you can’t expect me to believe that an actual newspaper is being outsold by four dollar collector magazines sold at specialty shops.”
Since you are apparently WILLFULLY illiterate, let me repeat: My newspaper is extremely hyper-local. It only covers TWO small towns in our area. And its per-issue sales are STILL competitive with comics that are sold NATIONWIDE.
Prior to “Ends of the Earth,” almost as many people in ONLY THOSE TWO TOWNS were buying as many copies of my newspaper as were buying copies of Dan Slott’s Amazing Spider-Man THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.
Hopefully, your math skills are slightly better than your totally nonexistent reading ability.
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:41 pm
What’s a newpaper?
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:56 pm
… Okay, Dan Coyle wins.
July 2nd, 2012 at 10:11 pm
thanks for your sharing.
I really like it.
July 3rd, 2012 at 1:30 am
it’s cool.
I like it.
July 9th, 2012 at 1:49 am
Is part of the enjoyment for some of you folks complaining about this stuff?