I accept Bendis version ( he is the number one) but 4vsAvsX is the future ( in an alternative reality¿?)

see you

In the big Marvel events, it’s usually Reed Richards that’s put forward, not the Fantastic Four. The individuals–specifically Reed and the Thing–get pushed to the center, but the group–the family–as a whole doesn’t. Like Abhay said, it’s the family torn apart that gets attention. Or Reed figuring out that’s big and scientific and cosmic.

The FF as a group don’t drive the action anymore, it just participates in it. And while that can work for some major characters (like Spider-Man, who is always the reader POV for the earth-shaking Marvel events), it feels odd to keep the FF to the side, given their history–fictional and as a publication.

Personally, I think a lot of writers have trouble writing the Fantastic Four because it’s a family with a married couple in it, and that takes a deft, subtle touch and can close off a lot of avenues of conflict (no one wants to see Reed and Sue separated or divorced). Although I enjoy Hickman’s Fantastic Four (jury’s still out on FF), I’m not totally in the bag for his run. I enjoy how he’s developed the kids and the science-y aspects of the title, but his portrayals of Reed and Sue’s and Sue and Johnny’s relationships leave me cold.

But I’d say the reason that the FF is less central to the current crop of crossovers is that they’re not really superheroes. Sure, they have powers and occasionally fight bad guys, but they’re really explorers. Thing and Human Torch can thrown down with the best of them, but they don’t go looking for trouble.

It’s also a weird time to be wondering this because people have been having this conversation for about thirty years. Blogs!

All the exciting, critically-acclaimed shows on TV right now all being anti-hero driven shows: Mad Men, Sopranos, the Wire, Breaking Bad; Battlestar Galactica. (Comedies tend to be more affirmative right now, e.g. Parks & Rec or maybe Modern Family, but even there, consider the reaction Louie generates). (There was just an excellent PBS documentary on this very topic, though the name eludes me).

With the FF, in Civil War– the big story where they were most featured, they went with a “the family is torn apart”– that was one of the key events. (The family being torn apart is also a key image in most of the big cable dramas at the moment; I’d have a hard time thinking of a show that doesn’t feature that at the moment). But I suppose they didn’t go anywhere with that…? And everyone can quit the FF only so many times, I guess…?

ON THE OTHER HAND, maybe I’m completely wrong because… because there’s that monologue that Toby Maguire or whoever has in Ang Lee’s movie version of Rick Moody’s the Ice Storm (never read the book)–

“In issue 141 of the Fantastic Four, published in November, 1973, Reed Richards had to use his anti-matter weapon on his own son, who Aannihilus has turn into the Human Atom Bomb. It was a typical predicament for the Fantastic Four, because they weren’t like other superheroes. They were more like a family. And the more power they had, the more harm they could do to each other without even knowing it. That was the meaning of the Fantastic Four: that a family is like your own personal anti-matter. Your family is the void you emerge from, and the place you return to when you die. And that’s the paradox – the closer you’re drawn back in, the deeper into the void you go.”

To me, the fact that the characters usually go under the radar of Marvel’s big events is not an indication of trouble, it’s a good thing! I own every single issue of the comic from #61 to present, with the first 60 issues in omnibi form. I’ll keep the collection going as long as Marvel keeps the title going, and I’m happy to not have to buy squillions of tie-in issues to get a complete story. The main book has remained amazingly autonomous over the years, and I’m happy for it to stay that way.

While Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Beast, Scarlet Witch and others can float, switch and be traded from The Avengers to the X-Men, or even come and go as they please, the Fantastic Four remain constant. If a writer doesn’t like Reed Richards or Ben Grimm, the book is going to suffer, but if a writer doesn’t like Cyclops, Storm, The Wasp or Captain America — well, they can always have the character exit the book.

Also the fact that Marvel doesn’t own the movie rights to the Fantastic Four probably makes them less of a priority in the corporation than the various Avengers characters. (But having said that, Marvel/Disney doesn’t have the movie rights to The X-Men and they are getting a push in this series, so perhaps that’s not the strongest of arguments.)

Mr. Fantastic was part of the Illuminati that Hulk captured. Didn’t Reed also create whatever gizmo that revealed the Skrulls – and get kidnapped (I remember him being super-stretched by a torture device).

FF and uh..FF are both huge comics right now. They don’t need to be involved (and we all know Reed will show up with some sort of explanation of stuff the heroes want to know).

As usual Graeme – you don’t really think things out all that much before you blog eh?

Might perhaps be that the FF only had one book up to now, compared to the multitude of Avengers and X-Men books.

But they are definitely part of the core MU, at least IN the MU!

Add all that and Hickman’s run selling well these days and…what the heck are you talking about?