I’ll admit, Frank Miller’s Occupy Wall Street tirade didn’t make me think much beyond “Well, I guess he really has become that cranky old reactionary that people have been stereotyping him as for years,” but the resulting uproar has me wondering where everyone’s line is for the old “I try not to let my opinion of the artist affect my opinion of the work” dichotomy.
I’ve seen a lot of people offering up variations on “Well, if that’s what Frank thinks, I can’t support his work anymore!” – which begs the question, “Did you somehow miss Holy Terror?” – but I’ll admit, there was nothing in the rant that made me think that his work was any lesser, especially his earlier work. There’re many, many creators who I feel like I wouldn’t like in person whose work I enjoy, and the reverse is also true: There are many creators whose work I don’t enjoy at all, whose interviews and the like I eagerly seek out because I enjoy their personalities. But the two are separate in my head, for some reason, and even if someone whose work I like says something exceptionally offensive, I’d still consider buying their next book if I liked their work. But am I a freak for that? Where is your line for cutting off creators – and what would make you reconsider that ban afterwards?
November 14th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Although it can be hard sometimes, unless someone says something completely heinous, I think it’s important to separate artistic work from a creator’s opinions. Just because their politics may not align with mine, they may be a genius.
However, there are times when someone says something that is beyond offensive that their actions or statements must be considered heavily before I would consider buying their products or supporting them with my money.
November 14th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
In a nonpolitical sense – and not to disparage his work, because that’s usually pretty good – I tend to enjoy Warren Ellis more as a commentator on the state of comics rather than as a creator.
November 14th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
There should be a separation, there needs to be. If you like as art as a whole over the centuries, you can understand why.
But it is pretty damn hard sometimes, much like in this case…
–J.
November 14th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
“Did you somehow miss Holy Terror?”
Yes, yes we did. And we are all richer, better people for it.
November 14th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
when people say stuff politicaly and they think there way of thinking has to be right, that really turn’s me off to there work.
November 14th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Hi. I’m a conservative and I’ve become pretty good at separating the art from the artist. I really don’t see what the big deal is over Frank’s rant. I live and work in NYC and have actually been down to Wall Street. It’s a fiasco. The funny thing is must people agree with the sentiments, but the scene is so loaded up with non-working hipsters and global out of town anarchists. I’m not picking a fight, but these guys are wasting my tax money due to all the city resources devoted to them 24 hours a day. Go home people. Frank lost me at Dark Knight Returns, but I really don’t see the fuss over his comments.
November 14th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
I believe in this case it’s a matter of hitting him where it hurts: I disagree with you, so I won’t support your product. Basic capitalism, really. I don’t read Frank Miller anymore because once you’ve read DKR, you’ve read it all.
November 14th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Piss up a rope Graeme.
The art and the artist are inseparable.
But that’s okay, because we aren’t really dealing with art here. We’re dealing with commerce. And hatred and a whole bunch of ugly.
That’s your “job”. Promote commerce. You don’t get it. You’re as ignorant and old as Frank Miller.
November 15th, 2011 at 12:24 am
F**k Mel Gibson!!!
November 15th, 2011 at 9:54 am
I love Chuck Dixon’s work for DC, or did when he worked for DC. But I disagree vehemently with his politics. Somehow, I never found myself debating whether to buy his stuff or not, mainly because his attitudes never carried over into his comics.
I think Ender’s Game is one of the greatest SF books of my lifetime, but I find Orson Scott Card to be in the same league as Frank Miller. I find myself telling people to read the book but to buy it used or get it from the library.
I suppose it doesn’t hurt that Dixon no longer writes for DC or that Card’s skills have atrophied. So I don’t have any conflicts.
November 15th, 2011 at 10:24 am
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately too. As with most anything, there are lots of factors at play.
Disagreeing with someone politically is not usually enough for me to boycott their work (thus, I can still love Fables despite Willingham’s weird right wing rant a couple of years ago). Of course, this is dependant on how much the creators’ views are reflected in their work (thus, I was already ignoring Miller’s recent efforts).
Learning someone is a complete a**hole actually gives me more pause. It comes down to the reading experience: Is my enjoyment ruined by the fact that the person who made this work art is a complete dick? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This, by the way, should be called the John Byrne Conundrum.
November 15th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
@fed up While I agree with you that Miller was going to get grief from people no matter what, the level of what he got had to do with how he expressed his opinion. He made generalizations about large groups of people and embraced jingoism for all the world to see. I know people who went to Occupy protests, and none of them are thieves, rapists, or louts.
And, really, rapists?? That’s a horrible thing to throw around, not to mention baseless.
November 15th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@Kyle Garret said:”And, really, rapists?? That’s a horrible thing to throw around, not to mention baseless.”
Not baseless, but the truth :http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/woman-raped-at-occupy-philadelphia/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/protester_busted_in_tent_grope_QxAzp8mG8pULWA6cPzgnXL
November 15th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Bruce W.
The rape and groping are awful, but they are also the acts of a two people out of thousands. Do you feel comfortable saying that it represents the whole movement? Are you comfortable with broad generalizations about broad groups that actually contain wide a wide diversity of people?
Miller obviously does, since he calls all followers of Islam his “enemy”.
November 15th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
“And, really, rapists?? That’s a horrible thing to throw around, not to mention baseless.”
I don’t know why anyone is even defending Frank Miller here. That article reads more like something an internet troll would post than a serious statement about Frank’s political beliefs. That isn’t an exaggeration. He addresses the protesters: “…losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.” Is anyone really surprised that some fans are alienated by his comments?
November 15th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
@Bruce W. Paul Allen said it for me. Miller said that everyone at Occupy were thieves, rapists, and louts.
November 16th, 2011 at 6:58 am
I tend to lean right so I would disagree with probably 99% of the creators. I would have no interest in talking politics with them though so I figure we would get along fine. After all, isn’t everyone entitled to their own opinion? Even if there are those that don’t believe that Frank Miller is.
November 16th, 2011 at 11:16 am
Holy Terror I was able to not buy and think of it as Metallica’s later albums or anything by REM after Monster. His comments on the Occupy movement, and him calling them rapists and equating the financial problems in this country and protesting them as on the same level of support Al Qaeda has made me pack up my Sin City trades and hunt for my Year One books to sell at a second hand book store to make sure someone else can read them and he doesn’t make a penny from them to spend on his coke habit.
November 16th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@Paul Allen&Kyle Garret:
Is it fair when people call the Tea Party racists or Teab******? Did the comic book industry or fans get upset when Brubaker took a shot at the Tea Party in Captain America? Tolerance is a two-way street.
OWS isn’t a movement, it’s a temper tantrum. Squatting and having tantrums don’t solve problems, solutions do.
November 16th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@ Bruce W.
Yes, people did get upset about the Captain America / Tea Party thing. Marvel even took the signs out of the collected editions. Personally, besides a sign or two being over the top, I felt it was a fair depiction. It’s not like they had a sign depicting Obama as a monkey, or telling him to go back to Africa.
And it kind of seems like you’re saying that since people make broad generalizations about the Tea Party, so then it’s okay do the same back? Doesn’t make sense to me.
You say tolerance is a two-way street. True enough, with limitations. There’s no way I’m going to be tolerant of intolerance, i.e. the hatred of ALL Muslims that Miller expresses.
November 17th, 2011 at 8:31 am
Miller should just shut up and create comics. Oh wait he can’t do both.