Over at the Bendis board, Mystery Men and Hulk artist Patrick Zircher stated that he’s in favor of a “line-wide relaunch” at Marvel, similar to what DC will be debuting in under a week with “The New 52.”
His initial post in the thread simply said “you know you want it,” but after some folks thought he might have been joking, he clarified his position and explained his thoughts in detail:
It’s a great idea. That many ‘regulars’ don’t see it, well… mainstream comics needs a larger readership. Which it just might get as it enters the digital age– unless those new readers are put off by storylines wrapped in 50 years of arcana.
As it is, individual books get rebooted frequently anyway– but piecemeal relaunches make for a convoluted shared universe.Still, I’d like to see a genuine relaunch, one with more conviction than an alternate universe, one with origins and focus on the core concept of each character. Everything approached as if the heroes and villains are new. Origin stories are powerful and give characters a lot of meaning and resonance. I’d like to see that done with She-Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Luke Cage, Black Panther, Ms. Marvel, etc.
There are currently a couple of dozen books that feature a wide assortment of characters from all corners of the MU. If you actually connected the dots in the personal histories of these characters, some of the relationships seem strained at best. As readers we have to filter a character’s past into what we want to remember and what we don’t– or read a wiki entry to know what the hell’s going on.
This led to a good deal of back and forth between Zircher and others debating the merits of such a move (as tends to happen on online forums), with the artist suggesting that it may very well be something that Marvel is already considering.
Let me put this another way, if you don’t think Marvel isn’t watching closely how this unfolds for DC, watching how successful or unsuccessful this approach, this relaunch, will be– then you aren’t thinking.
If it succeeds in a big way for DC, if it wrests the market share from Marvel, Marvel will very, very likely follow suit– maybe not this year, maybe not the next– but they’ll look at what worked in DC’s big relaunch, what didn’t, and try to top it.
Think Zircher is on target? Would you be pleased if Marvel attempted something like this? Let us know in the comments.
August 25th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
With our luck, we’d get a line-wide relaunch that’s exactly as bad as DC’s — the exact same people responsible for ruining the line to the point that it NEEDED to be relaunched would be put in charge of it, and the relaunch would keep all the things that drove me away from the line in the first place.
DC insists that Identity Crisis is still in continuity, even in the new rebooted reality. WHY? It’s one of the most offensively wrong-headed superhero comics ever created. It’d be like Marvel rebooting continuity but still keeping Civil War and Avengers Disassembled.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
He is just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Marvel and DC are publishing companies that SELL COMIC BOOKS. If this technique works for DC, Marvel would be dumb not to follow suit in at least some way. I don’t like the idea of a “day 1″ reboot, but comic books have to grow their readership.
I love the automatic pessimism whenever it comes to comic books. There are way too many people who hate ideas before they ever hit the shelves. No wonder people are not breaking down the doors to hang out with us in our “much-loved” hobby.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
I think its more likely that they’d re-emphasize the Ultimate U.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I’d actually made mention of this in my blog a few weeks ago when I just randomly chatted about the DCnU…I mean, if the industry is going as badly down the tubes as we’re continually hearing and so many from outside the genre see what DC doing as a genuine attempt to lure in the mythical “new readers,” why wouldn’t he only help to have the TWO biggest companies separately joining forces in one big do over? At least afterwards, it can be said that they tried something en masse to “save” themselves.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
I agree with Mike. Every time I read the review for a (any) comic book, the only thing posted below normally is several hate comments about how Marvel/DC/Image whoever has screwed everything up.
I will agree for every comic book on the market, each one has seen it’s hit and misses, but especially in a day in age where we live in a troubled economy where people are hesitant to spend on anything, we should look for constructive criticism, if not a modicum of optimism to guide us through industries such as comics.
P.S. It’s amazing that all the ‘haters’ out there hate all these stories so much to keep involved issue after issue. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
I am 4 a line wide reboot but if they do it they have to really commit to it. I think DC’s biggest problem is that they keep trying to change some things and keep others and then trying to reconcile things later which calls 4 more retcons and changes to try and make everything fit making it even more confusing. Instead do a reboot where none of the continuity is going to be a hinderance later. I think that is the only way to really take these characters to the next level a d appeal to a wider audience.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
They should reboot the movies so I can play Nick Fury too.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
I agree with MW; essentially that’s what the Ultimate Universe was for from the get-go; Marvel has a rich half-century of continuity and it seems to me even individual title reboots often sink back into mediocrity after the heavily touted talent that launch the new titles move on. It might take a year or so, but I suspect this is what will happen to DC’s line relaunch: some quick big sales initially, but in the long run, nothing will have changed much profit-wise
August 25th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Sadly the answer to growing readership is way to simple. Let the amount of books currently out there shrink. When a new reader actually comes in to a comic store and asks to read a Captain America, X title, Batman title, Avengers, Thor, Wolverine, ect they are overwhelmed by the onslaught of material. Seriously try explaining the “Death of Spiderman” to new readers. Oh that is the Ultimate version of Spiderman. The mainstream Spiderman is still alive in Amazing Spiderman. Their look is one of being totally lost. A Wolverine fan came back after years of not collecting. He figured out he could not afford to be the die hard Wolverine fan he used to be. Wolvine is on the Avengers,various X Men books, and X Force? He thought I was joking. Every time a book is a hit now days it is milked out with spin offs. Readership is not allowed to grow. It is splitted up across the mountain of material. Less is more. But with the Marvel vs DC mentality for market share it will just be a fight for a shrinking piece of the market share pie.
August 25th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
no.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
-’With our luck, we’d get a line-wide relaunch that’s exactly as bad as DC’s’
???
It hasn’t even happened yet!
Am I skeptical about the relaunch and what they are doing to my favourites? Absolutley. But I am reserving judgement until the books are in my hands.
I realize this thread is about a Marvel relaunch, apologies.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
as to what Laurence Fishburne said: Laurence Fishburne would be awesome as Nick Fury
August 25th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
a reboot is not needed; just great new characters and stick with them
August 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
There already WAS a Marvel reboot and it’s called Ultimate.
Let me keep this simple: If Marvel does a line wide reboot, which is DOES NOT NEED, then I’m dropping every Marvel title and walking away from the publisher for good.
I’m sick of this, we don’t need reboots to bring in new readers we need better stories. We don’t need a new #1 (I don’t know many people who started collecting a book at #1 and had no problem jumping in on certain books because they offered a great new story or a perfect jumping on point like Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four did for me.) we need better stories.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
They could still have heroes, just reborn. Because that always works
August 25th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
How about this – don’t reboot anything and use better creators, treat your readers with respect and make a product worth spending on. As for continuity, come on, we’re already accepting men and women who can fly – applying selective memory isn’t that tough!
August 25th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
A line-wide relaunch? Mmm….I’m going to say that if DC’s sales flop, Marvel will have a con at some point, and as an aside, make a comment that mocks the idea as “absurd” and “ridiculous”, and fans will applaud and amen.
…And if DC spends the next year stomping Marvel into the pavement sales-wise, come SDCC Marvel will talk about how they’re scrapping their whole line and launching 40 or so new Number 1 comic books, claiming that things are just too “cluttered” in the Marvel Universe.
It’d be amusing…except my guess is accurate. >_<
August 25th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Has is ever crossed any of these peoples minds that some people just don’t like comics. Almost every person i know that dose not like comics wont read them because they think comics are kids stuff and not worth reading because of this. The kids in my life i have tried to give comics to just move on to other things they find more interesting. If this industry had any sense they would try to cut back on the over indulgence, produce less comics and concentrate their energy on making those comics the best they can. The economy is bad you have to whether the storm…. ah i don’t care a i just gave up….
August 25th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Okay…that is it; I have had it with these excuses for the whole reboot idea. It is getting a little ridiculous with “We don’t have new readers because of the 50 years of history…” Blah…Blah…Blah! That is lame… it takes 20 minutes to catch up on the history with Wikipedia. Further most of us, when we started reading comics, came into comics when most of the titles already had 20, 30, or 40 years of existing history…Action comics, Batman, Captain American, FF, etc…pick one. Further as much as I respect Jim Lee as artist and business man, this is only Jim Lee and Geoff Jones way of leaving their mark on the industry, way after they are gone. Rebooting proves nothing other than you spike your sales for a short period of time, and then you are faced with the same problem that they were trying to resolve. Jim Lee did it all the time with his Wild Storm comics… How did that work out? Besides isn’t this the reason why Marvel started the Ultimate Universe? Now they reboot that all the time. If this is because the companies are supposedly losing money and need new readers…I am not buying it! Look at all the resource outlets these companies have to attract readers: movies, games, toys, and apparel that both DC and Marvel are releasing. If they can’t bring in new people with all of the outlets they have at their disposal, then something else is truly wrong here….Sounds like people are just being greedy…Warner Bros…Disney…Jim Lee…Geoff Jones…anyone looking for a cheap way to make their mark on the industry.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
a Marvel Line Wide Relaunch would make me quit comics. DC’s relaunch has so many “Wha?” bits about it, and I’m very skeptical.
Marvels done relaunchs in the past. Heroes Reborn, Ultimate…It dosent need a main line wipe.
And to be honest, Marvel dosent need it. DC has a very convoluted continuity, and while marvel has some confusing things, its no where near as bad as DC was. Marvel’s continuity has almost been real…tight.
A Line Wide Relaunch would kill the momentum of all the great new characters Marvels given us in the past Decade, and the fact that its characters arent in real time makes them work.
Simply put, Marvel dosent need it. They have Ultimates for their contemporary Modern stuff, the main line for their main stuff, and the marvel adventures line for the family friendly stuff.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
I agree with most of the above, especially what Rod said. The biggest potential problem with the DCnU (and we’ll know in a few months if I’m right on this) is that they’re doing too many damned books. They’re actually increasing how much they’re publishing when the market is shrinking. Who really cares about Captain Atom, and why the hell is there a Red Hood book? It shouldn’t be the new 52; it should be the new 20 and concentrate on making every book good.
Now, granted, if someone has a knockout Captain Atom book then DC should do it. I’m all for books with more minor characters. However, we have a situation where there are so many books that excellent stuff isn’t getting the attention it deserves. Blue Beetle and R.E.B.E.L.S. were both superb, but they got buried under the mountains of other books under other publishers. To add insult to injury, both sold significantly less than Tony Daniel’s lackluster (in terms of writing) Batman stuff and possibly even Felicia Henderson’s terrible Teen Titans run. If the publishers want the market to grow they have to get behind their quality product and not go for easy sales, like the anything-with-Batman-on-it model.
And, as others have noted, Marvel effectively did a reboot with the Ultimate line a decade ago, and now the continuity of that is a total mess. For that matter, the Ultimate line now is being effectively rebooted to grab new readers. Any reboot is a short term fix and creates new problems.
Finally, in terms of the shrinking market, the biggest issue is the rapid increase of the entertainment market combined with a sharp cost decrease. In the digital realm the publishers may want to consider dropping anything resembling traditional pricing altogether and supporting a Hulu-like, ad-supported model for digital delivery. If you don’t like ads, you want a permanent download, et cetera then you have to pay. Without printing and shipping costs combined with increased readership down to basically no pricetag both publishers could make more off of ad revenue than they could from just selling copies.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
I don’t think a line-wide relaunch of Marvel is necessary as they’re relaunching most of their line currently. Think about it:
1. Avengers – this family of titles was relaunched at the end of Siege;
2. Fantastic Four – after the death of the Human Torch, FF was born. Moreover, there’s solicitations for Fantastic Four #600;
3. Punisher and Black Panther – these books have either been recently relaunched or came in as a replacement for another recent relaunch:
4. Daredevil – relaunched after Shadowland
5. X-Men – Regenesis is essentially a relaunch of the X-Men family, with Wolverine and the X-Men and Uncanny X-Men (Vol. 2) leading the way. X-Factor, Uncanny X-Force, and New Mutants were relaunched just over two years ago.
6. Crossgen – these titles (now under Marvel’s ownership) have just started.
There are other titles not coming to mind at the moment, but I think I’ve made my point: A Marvel relaunch in my opinion is just unneccessary.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
I dont think they need to erase all the history, but rather, relaunch everything with new number 1s. They’ve been doing it, as Zircher said, for a few titles here and there – DD, Punisher, Uncanny X-men. Cut all that out. Like I said, wrap up your stories – not changing history or anything – and relaunch everything with a new first issue, with fresh talent, accessible stories, streamlined titles (as in, just 1 Wolverine book, thank you), and less focus on crossovers and events. Also emphasize professionalism – these are serialized stories, just like TV. You think people would tolerate Bryan Hitch in Hollywood? I don’t think so. Deadlines are important in building up a readership.
August 25th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Much more likely:
Marvel will be the first to give up entirely on monthly comics and go totally TP and digital. Maybe even just digital. Why even bothering playing the game the way it’s set up now when there’s a cheaper alternative? Seriously, think about it. If you could cut your overhead and provide a product much cheaper than what you’re currently producing and then have it reach a MUCH wider audience that only has to pay a fraction of a percentage of what comic buyers are paying now?
…Why wouldn’t you?
And they might reboot in conjunction with that. But reboots in paper comics are just shuffling the same stack of irrelevant cards.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
I get his point. I for one would not mind so much if I thought that this current relaunch will be followed by a new relaunch in the next five to ten years. If a company-wide relaunch would actually last another 50 years, that would be a lot better than the current trend of relaunching single series every couple of years (only to get them back to the original numbering for some anniversary).
But still… A relaunch feels as if they just $#!+ on the comics I have loved for so many years.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
I think the first couple of issues will do really well because of the curiosity factor. We won’t really know until this time next year.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
Personally, I wouldn’t mind this happening to some extent. It doesn’t have to be a “everything happened yesterday;” just pick a time to reset the Sliding Timescale to, do it for EVERY book, and stop sliding the Timescale. Everyone criticizes DC for resetting so often, but Marvel does it on a soft scale every time they reset the clock, and they do it very staggered. Just pick one time and leave it, much like the Ultimate U has done.
And if they did this, I wouldn’t worry about Ultimate too much; it’s made its mark enough to keep itself going in the face of this, much as DC’s Earth One will continue due to sales (as opposed to die-hard fan reaction).
August 25th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
As someone who doesn’t read a lot of Marvel comics I would be pleased to see the DCnU idea come to Marvel – and yet I’m not wholly in favour of the DCnU itself as a DC reader. Perhaps I have a different perspective as someone who would like to read more Marvel, but I have no idea where to begin – particularly with the X-Men, a book/ series I would love to jump onto, but feel the weight of a the vast wealth of character and back story involved/ as well as volume of titles.
The titles I have picked-up then have been the Smith/ Bendis/ Brubaker Daredevil run, this was easy to get onto and stood alone for the most part. The hardcovers for SM:Blue/ DD:Yellow and Hulk: Grey. I also found myself able to find my way into Planet Hulk as a self contained story. Reading it makes me wish Pak was writing Superman and would get him the hell off planet Earth – send him to Daxam, send him to the Green Lantern Corp, get him in amongst the New Gods – just take him out of the city for a while.
My issues with the DCnU is that it seems led from a small core of creators who aren’t perhaps the writers and artists I gel with (I didn’t enjoy the cartoony Silver Age style Superman of All-Star). That said I love Flashpoint, it feels like 90′s DC again (Jurgens era), quite daring (The Outsider and the Deathstroke book have been stand-outs for me, along with the main book). At the moment the look for Superman is dreadful and I know already it won’t last – he is just a character you can’t change; he will never be cool to the majority, you have to let the character be who he is – he can’t be Wolverine. I wait with baited breath for these books in particular, I hope they can pull it off.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Right now the only way to read Marvel books is to treat them like every title takes place in its own universe. They’ve got 4 or 5 major storylines going on at once, all with the majority of the main Marvel characters taking part. You’ve also got characters like Wolverine and Spidey who have at least 3 or 4 of there own books plus they’re on 2 or 3 teams. So you have one character in 6 places at the same time. I know, some people say well this book takes place 5 minutes before that one and this book takes place a day after the book. I just don’t buy it, its just gotten out of control. That’s why I’m dropping all Marvel titles.
And don’t even get me started about this “let’s kill a major character to boosts sales and then bring that character from a different dImension to bring them back.” They did that with Magik, pulling her from the House of M world, now theyre doing that with Nightcrawler? Come on.
Marvel does need to do a reboot. A big one. Let’s go back to the days when Wolverine was in one X-men book and had his own book telling us about his “Patch” days and that’s it. Characters like Deadpool don’t need 5 monthly books AND a team book. It’s just ridiculous.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
DC’s Earth One has had one book. The Ultimate line is not as popular based on a simple fact. The creators on the Ultimate books are no longer the most popular comic creators in the business. That is why the line did so well. It needs to end. How many more relaunches does a dieing line need?
Comic book fact. What new characters and ideas have been done in the last decade that caught on with the readers? Not many. If a writer has an idea for a new character he simply keeps it for himself to try to get rich off a possible movie deal. Marvel needs to be the “house of ideas” again. Not the house of marketing. Wolverine the Best there is needs to be cancelled. X Force though it is indeed an X book is popular thanks to their main book not being involved directly in every crossover and having a solid story for that book. Trim the line to grow the readership. Let the comic market correct itself. I love the X Men but not enough to read Astonishing X Men, X Men Legacy, X Men event number 5000, Uncanny, and the upcoming “Wolverine and the X Men”. Really Marvel? Where is the new hero that this generation can get into? Playing it “safe” by spinning off another X title is not going to get new readers. People who do not read comics are not saying gee if there were 50 X titles I would get into X Men.
Comic history is not the problem. The lack of great stories is. X Men history is the most confusing history in comics. Jean and Scott have sons/daughter each from a different timeline? Gambit showed the Marauders where the Morlocks lived even though the Marauders in their first storyline were shown following a Morlock back to their home to slaughter them?
Justice League 1 would be blockbuster comic even with out the relaunch. The creators make it the blockbuster. Batman was number one when Lee was on it. Superman had terrible writing when Lee was doing the art on it so it did not do nearly as well. Get the talent get the stories and you get the sales.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
If it were up to me…I’d either expand the Ultimate line, or even better, reboot it as a line of comics taking place in the movie universe (or at least a recognizable facsimile), and emphasize new channels for that — same-day digital, bookstores (what’s left of them), magazine racks, and so on. Put the biggest-name talents on it. Have that be the face of Marvel to new fans and the general public. Heck, get rid of the Ultimate branding — make those books “Avengers”, “Spider-Man”, and so on for easy identification.
And then at the same time: keep the old “616″ continuity going as, I don’t know, the “Marvel Classic” line, aimed at the old fans, with a streamlined selection of titles (using the adjectives — Mighty Avengers, etc.) and a mix of old-school creators and new talents. Make those books exclusive to the Direct Market, at least for a significant period of time, since that’s where their audience is.
There are probably lots of reasons not to do this, though.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
I think it’s a shame comics — which have carried a connection to their history even through historic drastic reboots (Crisis 1) — are so intent on devouring and excreting themselves in new, less nutrient rich forms.
History and hyper-reality and a wealth of swirling active ideas is what makes corporate shared universe comics so great!
In an electronic age where all that history should be at our fingertips, apparently we’re using it to perpetuate moronic myths about the impenetrability of a world that has existed for more than a couple of weeks. I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t drop to my knees and have a meltdown because the local grocer has been around for a while and I don’t know the ins and outs of why things are stocked where.
It wasn’t too long ago that the prospect of big exciting superheroics, with milestones and checkpoints and a winding world of history and characters, was a bloody exciting thing to a kid! I don’t think a few years of crap like House of M is really going to put pressure on that fact to breaking point. Not that it isn’t fair to say hard reboots only reinvent the problem (ie; the Ultimate line’s ultimate convolution).
Cut the BS, stop being so self-conscious.
Reboot the audience, not the product.
Maybe if we spend the next ten digital years telling people it ISN’T okay to be terrified, that’ll be true, too. Like it was during the biggest boom of the past.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
New Readers? How about readers who have been reading loyally for decades spending thousands of dollars that they can never recoup by selling their books? As an owner/purchaser of close to 20,000 books I regrettably said “good bye”
August 25th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
What potentially new customer would either;
a) know that the comics were rebooting, and;
b) care that the comics were rebooting? Does Marvel or DC honestly think that people are waiting on the sidelines, thinking, “Wow. I’d love to get into Marvel and DC superhero comics, but I’ll wait until they start their stories over. Let me keep checking into these comic book websites until I hear such a thing is occurring”?
I got into comics in the early ’80s, when I was only 8 years old. I had no problem. The books were easy to understand, any necessary continuity was referenced via editor footnotes and the stories were self-contained: I didn’t worry that I wouldn’t get the end of a story for six months, or over ten different titles.
Listen, I’m not saying the current storytelling choices don’t have merits, but they have their costs, too. A couple of years ago, I finally made the choice to forgo the floppies and restrict myself to collecting trades, but that was in response to what comics became. The comics industry write for the trade? Fine, I’ll buy for the trade. I’ve adjusted. But “user-friendly” it’s not.
Another difference is that I could pick up my books at a local convenience store rather than a comic specialty shop. I love my LCBS, and my hobby would never taken off without it, but it may not be the way to entice the casual reader into the fold.
And stop all the damn renumbering! Seriously, how has that helped get new readers? It’s not hard to follow a title that’s reached issue # 600; I can tell exactly what came before it and what’s coming after it. What IS hard to follow is a title that’s had three or four separate volumes in a decade (or a character or team with multiple books simultaneously). If the new reader wants to pick up Captain America #3, Punisher #12, or Avengers # 5, how’s a comic vendor going to help this guy without first confusing or even SCARING the crap out of him with the necessary questions? (“Do you want Liefeld, Waid or Brubaker Cap? Is it MAX, Knights or Edge Punisher? Original or relaunch Avengers? “Old” New, “New” New, Mighty, West Coast, Secret, Dark?”) Seriously, how’s a new comic reader not supposed to run from the store shrieking like a wild man?
I agree with Rod in that SCOPE, not history, might be the bigger problem – smaller universes, or at least more autonomous storytelling, might be better (see WALKING DEAD) with read access to conveniently numbered trades, and Fred’s comment that some people just aren’t interested in comics is worth considering too.
Ultimately, if a new reader has to be familiar enough with comics to know how they’re being revamped (or to know that they’re being revamped at all), then revamping in itself isn’t the right approach. Finding ways to make the stories more accessible, in terms of storylines, publishing structure, and physically available — this won’t get you TONS of new readers, but it’ll likely help to keep the new ones you get.
August 25th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Marvel KNOWS how to keep moving FORWARD
August 25th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
The biggest problem for Marvel is too many titles and too many crossovers and events. Every new customer that came into my store was overwhelmed by Fear Itself on every cover. They bought Cap and Thor one shots. Short story arcs and less titles:
1 Fantastic Four – not 2 titles
1 Avengers – not 4 titles
1 X-Men – not 7 titles (though X-Factor is a great book)
1 SHIELD – of relevance
Then your major players in solo books
Spider-Man
Cap – just 1
Iron Man – just 1
Thor – just 1
Hulk – just 1
Daredevil
Punisher
Deadpool – just one
etc…
Then have a catch all book that you can tell a Black Widow story in, a She-Hulk next issue,etc.
A Marvel Team-up.
Or if you must a
Solo Avengers book
Solo X-men
And if you do an event book make it a Limited series that is self included and doesn’t need 10 other 3 part LS, and 2 issues crossing over into every title.
It doesn’t need a reboot, just some common sense and self control. And a quality product. And ADVERTISING. Reasonably priced toys for kids to play with (not for fan boys to hide mint in a closet)
August 25th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
L Ru said:
“Reasonably priced toys for kids to play with (not for fan boys to hide mint in a closet)”
Score on that one, brother.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
I’m not all that opposed to the DCNU relaunch, I’d still like to have the old continuity still exist as it did. As it stands, I’m not completely opposed to it and am on board for just under ten titles of the 52 offerings.
If Marvel followed suit with their own relaunch, I’d hope that they didn’t wipe out continuity altogether. If anything, just tell new stories and not be so dependent upon past continuity.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I’ve been collecting Marvel Comics since 1989. If they restart the Marvel Universe, the last issue before the reboot would be my last issues of Marvel. Period.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
“P.S. It’s amazing that all the ‘haters’ out there hate all these stories so much to keep involved issue after issue. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.”
Please be quiet. It’s idiots like you who drive people away from the hobby with your ridiculous statements, If everyone who doesn’t like the current state of affairs stopped reading comics, they’ll be gone tomorrow. Most fans still read them out of a nostalgic and sentimental attachment.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
The DC reboot is ludicrous. Rounding up the old gang from the 90′s Marvel/Image fiasco, then giving them the keys to DC Comics? absurd.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
James Blight-
Does Marvel or DC honestly think that people are waiting on the sidelines, thinking, “Wow. I’d love to get into Marvel and DC superhero comics, but I’ll wait until they start their stories over. Let me keep checking into these comic book websites until I hear such a thing is occurring”?
Exactly!
August 25th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Please don’t. LOl. DC is plagued by many reboots, One year laters and such, it makes sense for them to do this relaunch. It may be the best thing for them. Marvel doesn’t need it. Marvel may have a rich history but I really don’t think their in the same position as DC has found themselves in.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
I’m dropping my DC titles because of this whole reboot….but PLEASE Marvel don’t follow suit….I dont want a relaunch…If it happens I’m done with comics for a while…I’ll reread the classics…as someone stated earlier people just dont care about comics anymore…I’m like the only one in my circle of friends who reads them…everyones to busy on facebook…watching Teen Mom and god awful Jersey Shore…I mean its on right now
August 25th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
50 years of continuity is more than enough to keep new readers away, and all of the new number 1′s that Marvel does are fairly pointless, same continuity new writer/focus. I think what Marvel should do is spend several years building to a restart point, giving writers time to wrap up all the story lines that are already in progress(or seeds have been planted for them) and then completely restart the line with a smaller line of comics(30 titles) in a new Marvel universe. To make up for the lost income from all the ending titles they could start releasing more varied content(expand the Crossgen, Squadron Supreme, titles get Newuniversal going again, just to name a few they have already released but could expand on. Also release more titles in other genres with a large media push(use some Disney resources)). Create an imprint along the same line as Vertigo.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
I think it’s hilarious that as the DC relaunch approaches and is getting more discussion (and orders, I say as a store employee) that this type of discussion is now almost impossible to avoid.
The hardcore Marvel fans are swearing DC will crash & burn and if they don’t and Marvel follows suit then they’ll all leave Marvel. As if. Then they have nothing to gripe about.
And let’s quit talking about how people around us think “comics are for kids”. COmics haven’t been for kids since Watchmen & The Dark Knight Returns, in content or price. It’s for 20-50 year olds, primarily male, who are trying to hold onto something pure about their childhood while more and more of them interject their jaded optimism into their opinions.
August 25th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
For Marvel’s sake and mine, just because I don’t want 70+ years of history wiped out, I’m hoping this DC relaunch crashes and burns. I love my Marvel history. I think the recap pages at the beginning of most Marvel books does a damn good job of letting people know what they need to know to enjoy the story if they’re just coming into it.
August 25th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
I am ok with a line wide reboot as long as it is true reboot, not a kind-of-sort-of reboot like we are getting from DC. I don’t think it is necessary, but I am ok with it.
August 25th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
It would be awful if somebody had to read a wiki entry. In what universe does a line wide relaunch stop readers from having to catch up or keep up? Origin stories suck, reinventing the wheel wont help anybody.
August 25th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
The characters are more popular than ever, yet sales of books are at an all time low. What’s the culprit?
Cost.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a $4 book or a $4 download because $4 isn’t really worth 20 minutes of entertainment in most cases.
The publishers should sell higher-priced premium books for collectors at retail, have free downloads of the same comics to bring new fans in (profits from advertising), and then bring the big money in with the bedsheets, action figures, and movies with all of the new fans they’ve created by giving books away for people to read on their iPads. That’s the solution.
August 25th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
You are a total phucking moron. The DC reboot sounds horrible and now you want Marvel to follow suit? Why? Are you a complete moron or something?
These characters are old and if some dumb fing kid can’t grasp the concept of ICONIC characters then they will NEVER become fans. So we are suppose to be keep all the comics dumb for idiots like you?
GO PHUCK yourself. DC is phucking retarded for doing this and I dropped EVERY book.
By the way…digital comics suck ass!
August 25th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
I am betting that DCnU will do good for 6 months, start floundering and then a year later, there will be an event that restores DC to before DCnU and it will be called DC reborn, with a bunch of new number 1′s and Detective batman Action and Superman going back to original numbering. that’s my feeling
August 25th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
It is really amazing to see how stupid some of these people are on this site responding to this douche bag.
Kids today don’t read. Too bad. It is a fact and there loss. That doesn’t mean us fans of it have to suffer to countless reboots etc. I am sick of it.
“Oh we can’t write because of the continuity”…total BS!
“Kids don’t like large # comics”. BS! I started on Batman #385. I stuck around. I bought some back issues and it was pretty easy to enjoy.
Reboots are for dummies and if you are for a reboot then you are a dummy who should go find another hobby.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
I don’t think it’s jumping the gun because we know the track record of this current editorial regime. It’s like, Dane Cook has told a 1000 unfunny corny jokes. If he tells me he’s going to tell me his 1001st joke, do I have to wait and see and be openminded and imagine it will be funny? Of course not. I’d be a fool to think otherwise. Or if a girl has cheated on every boyfriend she’s had and I am about to date her next, am I jumping the gun in saying I probably won’t be able to trust her either?
I agree snap judgments and blind assumptions are bad, but in this case that’s not what’s happening. It’s going to flop because basically all their initiatives flop. They make it up as they go along. So now the problem is that the DCU is too old and it needs to be deaged by 6 or 7 years? Yet this is the same group that a few years back thought the best thing to do was age the WHOLE LINE A YEAR OLDER by creating One Year Later linewide initiative. And it turned out so well-coordinated and consistent…Yeah, these guys aren’t just making it up as they go along and trying anything out of desperation.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Reboots are unnecessary. DC’s problem is the writing itself and not the continuity. If the story is garbage people won’t read them. I stopped reading the X-Men for a bit for this reason. When a story is good, the publisher is going to get reader, new and old. I hope DC finds their answer but for Marvel, they are doing just fine. They just need to stop doing crossovers where you have to buy 20 titles.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
Marvel reboot? I thought that was the Ultimate line…
August 25th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
Roger makes a good point. Kids today don’t read. In fact, they hate it and deem it “uncool” which is a partial reason why most of them seem so retarded today. That being said though, a line-wide relaunch might be a good idea, if only to clean everything up and start with somewhat of a clean slate. The whole Marvel U is such a mess right now, continuity-wise, and their titles are constantly being cancelled, re-launched, new numbering, back to old numbering, etc.
I, too, got into comics by just picking up titles with whatever random number there was, and I’m sure that’s how most comic book fans did. We had no problem doing that, and it was actually cool that there were so many more back issues of that series we were reading because it showed that there was history, and many of us would research or pick up back issues/trades to find out what came before.
But like I said, since everything is a confusing mess now amyways, they might as well try a complete reboot. However, they need to stick with their guns and keep those new titles going (in terms of numbering). As many have stated, people are tired of endless events, relaunches and gimmicks. Hell, even the whole post-disassembled Avengers titles are all crap now, because already there is yet another shake up happening in those titles in terms of the rosters. What a joke.
Comics seem to be made for people with ADD these days, I suppose. No wonder the real fans are turned off by this.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
The moment Marvel even announces something as STUPID as this is the moment I never lay a dime not only on Marvel Comics but anything related to Marvel ever again. Call me an extremist but the thing that separates Marvel from DC is they are never as desperate. DC has had how many reboots in the last 10 years? And they never let any of them marinate. They rebuild something awesomely like GL and then quickly destroy it again with another continuity wipe. It’s ridiculous. Marvel does not need more stunts like this. I do agree they need to shrink their titles. They put up too much junk that exploits the name of a property only to not deliver and fool the reader. I think this confuses the new reader as well like someone else also already mentioned. The Wolverine in every title example is a great example of this. The ultimate line is a mess. An absolute horrendous mess. But when compared to 616 continuity. On it’s own it has it’s legs to stand on. Keep it clean. Do not break something that is not broken like DC LOVES to do.
August 25th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
I agree with MW if they did one it would be like the Ultimate Universe, only Peter is still Spiderman. What a horrible idea it is to do a reboot. The early Marvel had great stories like Peter getting an ulcer because of the stress of being Spiderman, the fact is the original Marvel crew told some of the greatest stories ever written not just in comics, but in literature period. And to reboot the whole thing would be to toss away great history, and to keep rolling out the milestones. DC might be losing some folks with their re-reboot. Are they going to keep doing it every 30 years now? Once you start down the reboot path, its hard to keep it right, and hard not to want to redo it again later. Leave it alone. DC is hurting itself with a reboot, and a Marvel reboot might just make me stop reading altogether. Its tough already to read Marvel sometimes with all of Bendis’s politicizing and God-hate he occasionally puts in stuff. Just leave it. The industry is already hurting. And you’re supposed to nurse something back to health, not shoot it in the head, and then say, “O.k. reboot, time to get back up now.”
August 25th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
dc’s first big problem, which im sure marvel will be paying attention to, is that every single book in their new publishing line will come out within the same month. at 2.99, plus tax, you’re looking at over $150 in a single month if someone wants to try these books. most people that come in my shop have a budget of $40-60 a month, for ALL their comics, not just the dc ones. so books like Frankenstein, Captain Atom, Mr Terrific, honestly could be amazing incredible books, and will still get canceled in 6 months just because they’re crushed under the priority of the rest of dc’s line. action people will still buy action, same with detective, JLA, etc. so by the time you get past whats technically already on your pull list, can you buy 20 other new titles in a single month? would you do that if it werent a line-wide thing? and you expect all 52 to survive an ongoing schedule?
the second big thing is, you have to remember that all of this is causing a great whirlwind of internet shenanigans with people who ALREADY READ comics. the non-comic-reading population has no idea that this is even going on, or is even an issue. the guy walking down the street is not going to suddenly have a brainflash that now is a good time to run into a comic shop because all these #1′s are on the shelf. for all intents and purposes, the only people who will notice in numbers enough to matter, are us who are already here.
rant aside, i’ll be reading quite a few of the new books just to see how it all goes down; it’s a human head rolling down the interstate, i can’t help but look. but dc’s (and marvel’s) third and biggest problem is this; a reboot has just as much of a chance of being a “jumping on” point as it does of being a JUMPING OFF point. if you were thinking about it, there is NO better time to either switch to trades, switch to digital, switch to marvel, switch hobbies.
i made a new rule for myself 2 years ago; every time a title is restarted, either reboot or new #1, i stop buying floppies and switch to trades. i now have a massive trade collection, technically by that rule i now have a bigger HC and TPB pull list than i do actual comics. and the only comics i get every month are Invincible, Cap & Bucky, Ultimate Spi–oh wait, Green Lan–oh wait, Tho–wait, Detect–hold on, X-For–nope, Uncann–no, New Av–gahh, Fantas–AGHH, Justi–AGHH!!
August 25th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
I don’t like the idea of DC history being wiped out, but I can’t get too worked up since I don’t really read DC at the moment. I do think it’s a pipe dream to think that this will bring in a bunch of new, loyal readers. I guess it was around Heroes Reborn where it became popular to restart a book at issue 1 to reap a temporary sales boost that never seems to last, and then it’s back to the old numbering. The new 52s are basically DC’s promise that the renumbering is for real this time, but I can’t help but feel the results will be the same–temporary boost, then back to the regular levels. The levels will depend on the quality of the teams on the books and the stories they tell, but it’s basically going to be the same guys making buying decisions as before. I think they’re being hobbled by the number of strange, niche titles they are including alongside the Batmans and the Green Lanterns.
I hope it doesn’t happen with Marvel. Selfish, but I hope DC is disappointed just so it doesn’t cause Marvel to make a copycat move. It was bad enough when the Spider-marriage was wiped out, I don’t need the regular Spider-Man to be back in high school again.
August 25th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Also, I began reading in the mid-’80s when continuity was well-established. I made out alright. No wikipedia back then, but Marvel Age had a wonderful, ongoing text history of the Marvel Universe. Then, there were the excellent Official Marvel Indices. Even before trades, I knew all there was to know about Spider-Man history because of those issues.
August 26th, 2011 at 12:10 am
I had completly quit comics in the last three years and I was comfortable in my new “position”. Free of comics for the first time in my life! Now i’m not saying i’m coming back full time, but I will at least try 10 DC books of the relaunch. I don’t know what does it say but I needed something fresh that would entice me.
I see only two problems with the DC relaunch is that they didn’t go far enough and it might get confusing over time since a lot of ideas they kept from current storylines(red lanterns, blue lanterns) yet made some characters younger. Secondly, they have the same creators that are always creating their books on board. Why change it if you’re gonna have the same flavor? Marvel should take notice. Marvel has been limping for the last 5 years or so and it lost all its joy. But to give it the proper kick it would need creators that would infuse a new energy and they would have to go all out and pretty much do a Marvel Crisis. Everything start at Year 0. No past, it’s a fresh Universe. To combine the two I can only think of a few guys that could do it, guys that have done it before such as Neil Adams at Continuity and Shooter/BWS at Valiant. They created original and imaginative Universes with a huge map with guidelines while letting creators the freedom to do great stories. Add a few modern guys in there some new blood(Cassaday, J. Aaron, etc…) and maybe they could do it who knows. It should be stimulating creating a new World.
August 26th, 2011 at 12:19 am
poster Eric forgot to think that Marvel history stopped mattering the moment we’ve had Cap Wolf and the Clone Saga. I can count so many stories in the last 15 years at that company that have tarnished the name and legitimicy of their well of stories that’s almost it’s unsalveagable. That includes One More Day and Evil Scarlet Witch. It’s hard to even look at Marvel with the excitement of wonder anymore. It’s grim and depressing and it will never get its flame back.
August 26th, 2011 at 12:21 am
Thirty years ago, in the wake of the whole “Death of Phoenix” storyline, Chris Claremont wrote his single best issue (Uncanny X-Men 138) which, without contradicting anything that came before, narrowed the field of the past X-Men stories he’d be drawing on for about the next decade. It was Scott Summers describing what had gone on before. He skipped an awful lot, but nothing anybody would notice or miss.
Instead of a line-wide reboot, I think Marvel should have one month where every book does something similar. We can call it the “138″ treatment. Consider: Spider-Man is the standard bearer for the “street-level” superheroes, and his continuity has a lot of dross. Do you realize that Peter Parker had been in space a good fifteen times before he joined the Avengers and FF? And that he time-traveled a good dozen times as well? The clone and symbiote stories have resulted in more bad storytelling than good (although I kind of like the idea of having Ben Reilly around). One good “138″ issue would clear a lot of this away; it’s a way of saying “We aren’t denying this other stuff happened, we just don’t intend to draw on it ever again.” Especially the Marvel Team-Up stories.
A lot of other characters with overly convoluted backstories would benefit from the “138″ treatment as well. Frank Castle is the best example: Seminarian, crime family head, the whole “angels” series… He’s taken a lot of wrong turns at Albuquerque. So have Ghost Rider, Hulk, Nick Fury and Tony Stark. I can’t imagine being a new reader and trying to get a grip on these. Daredevil’s whole 1970s (prior to Miller) is a wash, except for the Death Stalker and Bullseye stories. I loved Steve Gerber, but–Angar the Screamer? Madame MacEvil? Sheesh! The Ann Nocenti issues were likewise problematic. Time to sweep ‘em under a rug, 138 style.
I don’t think a time crisis like Flashpoint would be advisable, just some strong and judicious storytelling.
August 26th, 2011 at 12:37 am
I grew up and got into comics when there was an Earth-1, an Earth-2, an Earth-S and so on. I rode my bike to my local drug store to keep up with Crisis on Infinite Earths as it came out. I got into the X-Men due to a crossover with the Teen Titans, so I had no idea going in who Dark Phoenix even was.
We’ve got to give kids a lot more credit than we’ve been giving them. And we need to expect a hell of a lot more from creators and these companies than what’s been expected of them of late.
If anything has struck me about DC and Marvel over the last couple years, it’s that their characters and comics are treated as a PROPERTY before anything else. And that’s understandable, because it’s the truth. But it sucks as a reader. I don’t want to read a half-dozen Avengers books written by one person’s ideas dictating everything else, unless that person is an AMAZING visionary. I saw what happened with the X-Men when they started splitting up book after book. And even that was better than what’s happening now.
Directives of killing characters and constantly ending titles and relaunching with new #1′s or new adjectives in the titles is just the laziest kind of storytelling. In fact, it’s barely storytelling at all.
An example is the Ultimate Universe. Ult. Spiderman was the best book in that line, and possibly the best comic Marvel had going for it. But that book got torn up in a series of poor crossovers and storytelling shake-ups because the names of the talen meant more than the characters in the books themselves. And look at how that talent paid off anyways… Did Jeph Loeb actually get to the promised Ultimates Season 4 they promised going in? No. He established such wonderful ideas as incest, and Wasp getting eaten by the Blob, and so much more, including destruction of all the other books in the line, so it could be relaunched and someone else could try to make something work out of his mess.
And then, when Bendis manages to make the relaunched Ult. Spiderman somehow good in spite of what happened, we’re told by editorial that, “We were going to kill Peter Parker… If Brian wasn’t willing to do it, we would have found someone who was.” So, again, it’s not about the character, it’s not about storytelling, it’s about someone else deciding what’s best.
And I’m not a Bendis favoritest. I feel like what he’s done with the Avengers books, and all the multitude of crossovers in the regular Marvel Universe has been just as bad. Worse, to me, he creates the idea of a storyline, and then doesn’t actually do any storytelling in his titles (just a lot of talking to the camera, which is dull as dirt), but the rest of the line has to follow suit.
Relaunching a line doesn’t do a bit of good if the creators themselves aren’t vested in the characters they’re writing for and the stories they’re telling. But I can’t say why they should be vested in stories that they have little-to-no control over. I admire the hell out of someone like Peter David who can write his way through event after event that Marvel forces on him in X-Factor, but he still manages to stay true to his characters, and true to the stories as he’s planned them, always giving a pay-off in the end, never letting the reader feel cheated. It’s a real sign of his skill and dedication. I don’t blame every other writer out there for not being able to do it as well, though. I think it’s unfair that they’re expected to.
Like Fabien on Red Robin, or Jeff Lemire on Superboy, or Bryan Q. Millar on Batgirl, creators had to cut short stories they had long-term plans for at the drop of a hat because a line was relaunched… for some people. Not everyone. Johns has his Green Lantern continuity still. Morrison gets to keep Batman Inc. Why? And who does it cheat? The reader. We were buying these books with the promise of something building. People say, “You like the old stories, they still exist, you can still read them.” But we don’t even get the satisfaction of seeing them end in the way intended. And that, again, is the nature of a Property.
Relaunching is unlikely to fix the problems that DC and Marvel have been having. In DC’s case, they have 52 (or more) titles getting rebooted, but I’ve yet to see them give any of them a real identity, something that sets one apart from the others. They’re superhero books from a superhero company, and the characters are still essentially the same as they were before. Just now, some have a history, and some don’t.
What MAY (and I hope this is the case) improve things in the DCnU is the idea that they are not writing for the trade, and perhaps stories are meant to stand on their own. I hope this means less in the way of company-wide crossovers, less killing-for-shock, less editorial-over-individual creativity. That’s what I’d like to see. I’d like to see some risks taken, instead of characters that never get to grow or change (or nearly immediately go back).
From Marvel, I don’t know. I’m uninspired by the whole line at this point. As much as I should be interested in the new Ultimate SpiderMan character, even if it’s a good book, I’m hard-pressed to reinvest in the comic, or the Ultimate Line as a whole (even with all the good people coming in). I’ve been burned too often by them, and it’s going to take a lot for Marvel to entice me to return.
Sufficed to say, I’d rather read something I know is going to be… allowed to be… whatever the voice who created it decides. For instance… Mike Mignola just killed Hellboy. But HE chose to do it. It’s him that controls what happens next and why. And while the act of killing a character is as dull to me right now as, I don’t know… anything that involved vampires, I guess… At least I have faith in Mike’s ability to know what he’s doing. He’s written and controlled Hellboy since the beginning, so everything I love about the character has pretty much been due to him. I’m not saying he can’t screw things up, but at least he gets the benefit of the doubt in whatever comes next.
August 26th, 2011 at 12:40 am
also like to add: how many times does an origin story need to be told?? comic reader or not, you can stop nearly anybody on the street and they’ll know superman came here in a rocket from Krypton, his planet exploded, ma and pa kent, lois, daily bugle, blah blah blah. do we really need to see that story told, ever again? same with spider-man if marvel follows with their own line-wide reboot; how many people don’t know the gist of high school nerd, spider-bite, great power great responsibiliblahblahblah. hulk had an accident, now he has the worst temper in history. batman’s parents were shot but he’s rich so etc etc. im not saying these arent good stories, but how many times do we need to tell them over again with a new writer and new artist?
one of the things i always looked forward to reading was a peter parker at, say, reed richard’s age. but that story will never happen; the closest we got was straczynski’s peter being a married teacher, but of course thats all gone. do we EVER get a long run where he’s not a loser? as soon as his stories start to show his age, a soft boot is done and blammo, back to being a loser. and spider-man is just one example. plenty of dc’s heroes are now back to being 25 or so; if marvel does this, you can be sure the same will happen. cap will just be coming out of the ice, tony will just be getting home from durka durka-stan, over and over. they say life begins at 30, but for comic heroes, it gets rebooted at 30.
August 26th, 2011 at 1:38 am
Reboots are a crap shoot. Ultimate Marvel went okay, but lost its raison d’etre within a few years as its own continuity became hard to follow. Heroes Reborn was more enjoyable than most people let on, but in the end, not a good idea. Even Crisis on Infinite Earths led to problems.
If dozens of comics are to be rebooted at the same time, it is all but inevitable that many, perhaps most, of the reboots will be commercial and/or critical failures. If the new Batman is well-received, but the new Superman is a flop, it will be hard to keep Batman from being contaminated, since they’re all together in the Justice League. Then what is to be done–another reboot, this time perhaps only of Superman? (Making hay of Batman’s continuity) A slow reversion to the “default values” of whatever pop-culture associations creators and readers may bring to the comics?
Still, it sounds interesting. I’d buy some.
August 26th, 2011 at 1:53 am
I’ve been saying this for a while.
The entire publishing end has become too bloated. Not including ancillary titles, limiteds, or one-shots, the X-Men family alone has bloated to 10+ monthlies. The other lines are no different. It’s impossible to have a shared universe that’s believable only if you buy the 60 or so titles that they put out monthly. Worse yet, many of those titles see numerous double ship months. It’s a pain on so many fronts.
Marvel’s books have stagnated too. How many times must they recycle the same stories, use the same tired cliches, and needlessly relaunch just to see that brief sales spike? Why do we have to see 30 year old stories revisited, rehashed, or referenced to death? It’s not fun for the long time fan. It’s confusing the the new fan.
It’s all just made that much more frustrating with the recentish “made for trade” mentality that stuffs forced (de)compressed story telling and locked length arcs down our throats. It’s killing story telling? More than that, what’s killing storytelling are the near annual events. Every event creates a new status quo, which is never fully explored btw. Every event necessitates a dozen plus fruitless and tedious of tie-ins.
Marvel’s 616 is choking on its own fat.
Marvel’s Ultimate line is no worse and should’ve probably been put out of its misery 4-5 years ago. Only Ultimate Spider-Man was worth its weight. Much like Spider-Girl and the MC2, Ultimate Spider-Man acted as an anchor for a struggling and dying universe/line. With Peter dead, that universe no longer has its anchor. The boat is adrift and we’re stuck with the b-side books that tend to be hit or miss. On top of that, apart from USM, the writing in the Ultimate Universe was flawed from the get go. They said that stuff would be different and often radical, yet they insisted on rehashing 616 concepts, characters, and events time and again. At best, it’s a poorly executed concept. At worst, it’s Marvel double dipping by selling us the same concepts twice.
Marvel needs to kill off the Ultimate Universe. It needs to reboot the ENTIRE 616 and trim away at least 1/3 the comics. Personally, I feel that Marvel’s publishing end should go back to a 1980s size. There were 1/2 as many monthly titles, but there was a lot more quality control and a lot more coherence. The X-Men line doesn’t need 10 books. It needs maybe 1/2 that. Spider-Man doesn’t need to ship every other week. Fantastic Four doesn’t need two titles. Wolverine doesn’t need anything more than one solo. It’s CRAZY.
Marvel needs to remember what made them successful. Story. Instead. They’re forgetting what nearly killed them in the 90s. Bloat. Deja Vu all over again.
August 26th, 2011 at 1:54 am
Me? I just keep buying up old Silver Age and Golden Age comics.
August 26th, 2011 at 2:12 am
DC’s reboot is tanking already what with only 7 books over the 100k mark for September. This means that come December DC will probably be selling less than it did early this year. Why would Marvel do the same mistake?
August 26th, 2011 at 2:28 am
How is that tanking?
August 26th, 2011 at 2:58 am
A line wide relaunch isn’t needed. What is needed is more self-contained stories that readers can choose from to read. That way they don’t feel utterly lost in the endless events and stunts. John Byrne was able to do it with Superman and led a lot of new readers in. So was Frank Miller when he revamped Daredevil and Batman. A line wide relaunch would just annihilate the readership they have and led to even less people buying comics with prices jacked up again to compensate for the revenue loss.
August 26th, 2011 at 3:14 am
here is what you do. take the best selling 25 books, get rid of all the rest, but use the charachters from the missing titles intermittingly in the 25 remaining titles and bring back Marvel Triple Action as a TRINITY like team up book with NO main title character (think DC Brave and The Bold that came out a few years ago) and do a kind of retro series spotlighing past awsesomestorylines so newer generations can see where Marvel was at some point. cut down the family titles we only really need one x-men title (double sized) with interchangeable mutants with storm nd wolverine as co-leaders, kill cyclops, bring back Jean Grey Phoenix. and revive the Dr Strange version of Secret Defenders. if Marvel does it right, it won;t b so bad. but chances are, they will screw it up as bad as DC has. Face it, the new Wonder Woman may as well be a transexual
August 26th, 2011 at 3:21 am
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
his kids were in danger, he did what he HAD to do. end of story. Hell if it was my kids, i would have shot all three if given the chance. This father should get a award, not jail time. I highly think som government officials are actually INBREDS…seriously. how incredibaly stupid can you be to arrest someone for protecting his family. the sad thing tho, is if an individual human broke into his home, and he killed him, he would be a hero. pretty messed up
August 26th, 2011 at 4:33 am
Going digital I can see, but I don’t think Marvel needs to do a wide line relaunch mainly because they’re in a better position of influence right now than DC is.
They’re getting their characters out their with the films, (which have been mostly successfu), video games (especially UMvsC 3) and good cartoon shows with plenty of new media projects on the way. This goes hand in hand with what I see as a process of saturating the younger generations who will grow up to later become comic book fans. That’s how it happened for me.
I’m sure Marvel’s media assault has been working on some level over the past decade to bring in new readership. I’ve seen some kids buying comics at my LCS now and then. But the overall increase has probably been too small to recognize and maybe they don’t stay that long.
At the moment I think Marvel’s “Season One” graphic novels is a smart idea for bringing in new readers. Hopefully it works out.
August 26th, 2011 at 4:33 am
I understand the need for a reboot/re-draft, to bring everything in line with today. I mean take Punisher, his story is totally out of wack for today. But i hope its something Marvel doesn’t do, even if DC fails/succeeds.
August 26th, 2011 at 4:36 am
Rebooting the line will not ultimately bring in new readers, it will simply alienate longtime readers. The main reason comics don’t sell isn’t because they’re continuity heavy, it isn’t even because of cost-it’s because a lot of potential readers either can’t find them or don’t even know they still exist. Comics will not sell in significantly greater numbers until they are where people can see them, back in the stores that people visit every day, racked alongside the magazines and newspapers again. And that will not happen unless they make it worth the retailers while by making unsold copies returnable again.
August 26th, 2011 at 5:24 am
The problem isnt rebooting, the problem is determining what is still and what isnt in continuity. DC has done so many right things in the past, but never followed through well enough to make it work.
Zero Hour was followed by Zero Month, and the cool ass Zero Hour Pull Out Timeline in Zero Hour #0. It was then followed by the Year One Annuals. 52 was another good example of how to “fill in the background”. Do a year long Marvel book called MARVELS that covers the “history” of the Marvel Universe (ne it weekly, bi weekly, monthly or whatever) along side another updated edition of the Marvel Universe Handbooks.
But I cannot understand how you can reboot something like Superman almost completely, but not touch Green Lantern or Batman.
August 26th, 2011 at 6:29 am
Here’s a thought. Let’s stop with the numbering. Both Marvel and DC time and time again have done the restart so many times, they’ve basically in one way or another told us that numbers don’t matter. Whether it’s Action Comics or Uncanny X-Men, publishers are not concerned with keeping the original numbering anymore. They say a new #1 is great to bring in these mystical “new readers” but what happens a year from now? #13 isn’t going to bring in anyone! You’d almost have to start over with another #1 just to try and keep it fresh because you’re still going to have that problem.
Why not do what most periodicals do and just put the month and year on the cover. Time magazine doesn’t have a number, or Cosmopolitan or Playboy or Guns and Ammo. This way if a potential new comic book reader just picks up a copy of “Batman” with the date “September 2011″, they don’t need to know the number, just give ‘em a good story. EVERY ISSUE could be a “#1″ for someone!
In this day of disposable culture not a whole lot of people want to collect the entirety of anything. Whole CDs or albums aren’t purchased anymore, just single songs are downloaded. DVD sales are shrinking. It’s not because people aren’t buying them, they’re just downloading films and tv shows, viewing them once, and have no intention of keeping them.
So these new generations of “buy-it-once-then-be-done-with-its” have no collecting mentality. There no need to get every single issue of a comic book because they don’t want to read every single issue! Maybe they’d pick up an issue here and there so numbers mean nothing to them and probably scare them as well (forget #900 – #3′s are scary).
And those of you who are hardcore collectors would just have to organize your boxes by date, not number. Change or die (as the saying goes).
August 26th, 2011 at 6:37 am
Nah
August 26th, 2011 at 7:06 am
Instead of Marvel just talking about it, I would rather that Marvel plans everything out behind the scenes and then uses an event to kick start their relaunch.
Back when the whole relaunch comic universes started in the 1980′s, DC Comics took–I thought–the bold move and rebooted the DCU. Marvel, however, decided just to put out a 12-issue maxi-series that drained our wallets. I think that Chris Claremont and John Byrne were some of the few writers that actually used Secret Wars to create some great stories or shake up the team line-up, and all of the other Marvel titles could care less.
Instead of talking this time, Marvel, take action and put your money where your mouth is. If you do a company relaunch, how about setting up a new rule where you don’t bring back your characters to square one after a character-changing storyline? You know, like when you put Hulk in space and gave him a life and then decided to undo all that with World War Hulk?!? I’m sure that Thor will come back, as long as it happens before the second Thor movie comes out. Also, decide on a core of characters to feature and put the rest of them away for a good long time.
And lastly, merge the different Marvel concepts into one coherent universe that incorporates the best of mainstream Marvel U, Ultimates, 1602, 2099, Marvel vampires, Age of X, and whatever Marvel concepts I forget. At least to me, when you create a different Marvel universe, it tells me that your writers and artists are bored with the mainstream Marvel U and that editorial allowed the other Marvel concepts to be created so that you didn’t lose those writers and artists to the competition. Maybe you even incorporate Marvelman into the Marvel U with a relaunch?
August 26th, 2011 at 7:09 am
I’ve been reading and buying Marvel comics since 1975. If Marvel does a relaunch I am going to stop buying their books. I will no longer have any vested interest in these characters. I have already stopped buying DC Comic because of the new 52 thing. If Marvel does a relaunch then it will break me of my 36 year addiction with Marvel. Just my two cents.
August 26th, 2011 at 7:28 am
I’ve been saying this for years…Marvel definitely needs a reboot and then some. Not to increase sales though, or to entice the mythical new reader, but to save their universe and the majority of their once great characters.
I started reading comics with Marvel. X-Men #1 and the Uncanny X-Men (I can’t remember the number) where the first books I picked up and returned to religiously month after month. It wasn’t long after that, that I found I was reading most of the Marvel Universe. It took years before I even considered buying a DC book, and even then I was reluctant, as I wanted to spend all my money on Marvel books. But some friends pointed me at some books that I thought I’d love.
Cut to today. I now no longer read a single Marvel book, I love the DCU, and I’m actually looking forward to the DCnU (after a few weeks of being hesitant). It was really sad to watch my Marvel pull list dwindle and die, but I just couldn’t bring myself to pay for anything they’ve published for the last few years. And that’s sad as some of my absolute favorite characters are Marvel characters.
Do I like that DC reboots every few years? No, but I get it and I get what they’re trying to do. I’d rather they recognize that they have a lot of fat to trim (history wise), and try to fix it, rather than turn a blind eye to it and hope people just don’t care about all the inconsistencies and horrible stories that have occurred.
Marvel needs to do this to bring it’s characters back to greatness and to make their characters make sense again. And then they need to stop the endless events/crossovers and shrink the size of the “family books.” Besides, Batman, DC does a much better job of keeping their characters in a believable amount of books. So let Wolvie be in a few extra books, but keep it to him, or maybe Spidey instead.
I know this isn’t a popular idea for a lot of folks, but it’s about the only way Marvel would ever see another dime from me and a bunch of other people who I know feel the same way.
August 26th, 2011 at 7:31 am
Marvel will be looking at the DC relaunch very closely, but they won’t be following suit. The relaunch is a publishing gimmick – it’ll sell a few issues, then fade into the background. Marvel always looks at their competition, but they specifically do not copy or follow along – they are always leaders. Marvel can always work with what they’ve got. DC has proven that they cannot.
August 26th, 2011 at 7:57 am
Marvel does not follow DC? LOL. Green Lantern goes bad. Iron man goes bad. Reign of the Superman. Then multiple Punisher wanna bes. Earth One one shot then Marvel follows up with their line. DC does the same thing. This whole relanch with numbers ones Marvel owned for years DC just took it all the way they could.
August 26th, 2011 at 7:57 am
Not true. Kids I know read as much as kids did when I was a kid myself, meaning some read a lot, most read moderately and some don’t read at all. Just like today’s adults.
They devour Harry Potter, Hunger Games series, Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Percy Jackson, etc. And they read comics, except it’s almost exclusively manga.
What it is is that they read books targeted to either kids or target to all-ages. What they don’t read are books targeted at 40 year old fans with encyclopedic knowledge of continuity. Go to a big chain bookstore in walking distance of a school and see how cluttered it gets with kids.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Here’s my prediction with the DCnU.
If it’s a hit, Marvel will follow suit. If it fails, not only will Marvel continue unchanged but DC will revert back to original numbering on most of the titles and claim that this was just another of the 52 universes (a la Earth One), even they say now it IS the mainstream DCU.
Let’s face it kids, when the powers-that-be change at DC, they could absolutely decide to revert back the original universe and numbering. Look at all the changes Marvel made back in the 90′s that didn’t stick under the new management.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:11 am
I don’t care what anybody says.
I’ll be buying more DC books come September than I was before. Almost twice as many.
So for me, I guess the relaunch was a great idea.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:24 am
Forgot a relaunch what we need is comics to be affordable again. I for one have stopped reading $3.99 books in favor of books that cost $2.99. There are lots of good books out there for a cheaper price then Marvel is charging readers. Below is a list of books for $2.99 that in some cases are better value then $3.99 books.
1) Avengers Acadamy
X-factor
2) Herc
3) Walking Dead
4) Morning Glories
5) Americian Vampire
6) Invincible
7) Fantastic Four
and the list could go on and on. Comics are selling less and less because they are too expensive at $3.99 a issue. But if you look at the numbers alot of $2.99 books are picking up readers and selling more copies on a monthly basis.
Give us cheaper comics and that will help bring in New Readers and increase sales on other books.
August 26th, 2011 at 9:15 am
I agree price is a big factor for sales. Right now a 32-page comic is 12 pages of ads and 20 pages of content. That’s almost 40% of the book being ads. Fewer titles at a reduced cost would be a major step in the right direction.
As for the relaunch, maybe DC should’ve spanned it over a few months – 3-4 new titles each month to extend the excitement, plus it would lighten the hit on our wallets.
August 26th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Before the movie came out, got a free copy of “The Thor Saga” from my comic book shop. It was a 24-page summary of the continuity of Thor from his introduction through today. There was a healthy amount of spot art, but there were columns and columns of densely worded text. So imagine someone who saw the movie and wanted to get into the comics, and he is handed this. Can you imagine any other reaction than “I need to understand all this to read the comics? Never mind, I’ll spend my money elsewhere.”
Personally? I mostly read DC comics. And I threw “The Thor Saga” away. And I’m not planning on buying Thor.
August 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am
I see that a lot of people are saying that Marvel does not need a line wide reboot and I tend to agree since mostly all the characters have been rebooted in recent memory anyway. Wolverine in House of M which resulted in a hundred appearances, slight exaggeration, of him and more than several books. Spider Man in One More Day which rebooted him to his early 20s and erased a lot of continuity which a lot of people are complaining about. Thor when he came back written by JMS. Iron Man in the wake of Secret Invasion when his mind was wiped to keep the identities of the people who registered from Norman Osborn ( seriously, are we so creatively bankrupt that we have to tap the wells that have run dry 25 years ago? ). Iron Fist, Daredevil and many more have been rebooted to ramp them up to modern times. The difference is that these reboots were made individually as opposed to line wide. Now that Disney is in charge of Marvel, and if anyone doubts that look for the Marvel marketing executives that Disney fired, you can be sure that if there is an uproar for back to basics in the characters that have no continuity baggage, that the Ultimate Universe seems to be having a lot of lately, then rest assured that they will reboot the line.
August 26th, 2011 at 10:51 am
Patrick Zircher’s right, at least in part.
IF (and I know it’s a big if) DC’s relaunch curb-stomps Marvel in the sales department for the next year, Marvel will follow suit. That’s guaranteed. This is completely separate from whether DC is doing the right thing or the wrong thing or doing the right thing the wrong way. It’s business, pure and simple. If DC does it and it works (regardless of why) Marvel will be required by its new corporate overlords to follow suit.
As for 52 books being too many to launch in one month, I disagree. I’ve gone into it in detail elsewhere, but here are the main points. 1) DC is actually publishing fewer total books in September 2011 than it normally does. 2) It’s not 52 books at once, they’re spread out over a month. 3) They could not have got the mainstream press if they’d done it any other way. 4) DC can’t reduce their presence in the market with a drastic drop in the number of titles because one or more of their competitors, most likely Marvel, would jump on the vacated market share with extra product. You don’t gain market share by chopping your output.
It’s too early to tell if this is going to succeed, but the early numbers for DC aren’t bad, and if things start to grow, Marvel will take notice.
August 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am
it’s simple.
DC is doing this out of desperation because their sales have been constantly dropping and Marvel has been taking up more and more of the market share every year. it’s a risky move, but things have gotten bad enough for them that they need to take the risk. they don’t really have much to lose at this point. most likely worst case scenario is the relaunch doesn’t do well and they have the same crappy sales they had before and end up where they were going to end up anyway.
Marvel on the other hand is currently dominating the market and would be insane to risk that all on a relaunch that could potentially leave them in a worse position in the end. there is absolutely no reason for them to do something like that right now.
August 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Marvel does not need a relauch, they have great characters and great stories that made their readers bound to them. What about new readers ? God, we have all been a new reader one day, i’ve only 30 and my firsts marvel comics were New Mutants 77, Excalibur 8, Avengers West Coast 48 and Uncanny X-Men 275. Not #1, not relauch, just very good stories with characters that had lives before I was born, What an excitement to read back their story-lives, to discover the beginning, I’ve spent many years and money and joy to collect old comics.
I tried Ultimate in 2000′s and what a mess,they completely rewrote the same stories, the same characters, waste of time.
Zircher is wrong, Marvel don’t need this to be marvelous and capt new audience. They need new stories, new characters maybe, great creators. Marvel needs Bendis
I will not judge DC’s relauch, I never read DC comics.
August 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am
And this is why the manga publishing model is better. Love a story and characters? Great, the original author will be allowed to finish it as he intended in a period that goes from 1 to 14 years. Said author will then move on to create something else.
Japanese Manga Publishing companies will continue republishing what sold before, but they always get new material and new universes that doesn’t suffer from convoluted continuity.
If there is demand for a particular story, new versions on anime or manga are made, sure, but they don’t follow the original’s continuity, which in the end makes it all easier.
August 26th, 2011 at 11:28 am
I have no issues with this. I don’t see people having any problems when there’s a reboot of a movie franchise and it turns out to be successful. At the end of the day there are two factors with any entertainment medium: user enjoyability and economic gain.
If the majority of the users/viewers/readers enjoy what’s been done after it’s been out a while, and there has been economic gain, then great! Not to mention that most people only seem to complain before something is done and/or later if it turns out badly. And a lot complain before, but then praise everything about it afterwards.
Look how successful Superman’s reboot was in ’86 after COIE. Look at the success of the “soft reboot” after OMD for Spidey. True, I didn’t like OMD at all, but the stories afterwards have been top notch IMO.
I still say, wait. Nothing is set in stone yet for Marvel. If DC is successful, then Marvel may or may not go down the same line, but if they do, experience it first. If you don’t like it afterwards, gripe all you want, but give things a chance to play out.
August 26th, 2011 at 11:42 am
It’s really not about Marvel dominating the market (via flooding the market, one might say), but about the industry running on dead legs. DC’s not just trying to save their asses, but the industry entire. For the last few years, DC’s been leading the way creatively and from a business-sense, with Marvel riding their coattails. Marvel will say they don’t pay attention to what DC does but it’s very obvious that they do, and have been since DC’s Identity Crisis lit up the industry.
And I agree with what Zircher and some have said here. It’s time Marvel reboot their line and I agree that they need to dump the Ultimate Universe. That universe should have been THE Marvel reboot. It was made for readers who wanted in on the MU at the ground floor. It’s proof positive that the mainstream MU was just a cluttered mess. Now, Marvel has two cluttered universal lines that aren’t doing that great.
In any case, I’m ready to fire up my iPad for the digital release of the DCnU. From now on, I’ll probably just use my LCS for trades.
August 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
If Marvel re-launched, they’d do it right.
I honestly don’t think they need to though. Company wide image change maybe or some such but a re-launch? I don’t think it will happen at least not the way DC did it.
And Kel-El, really?
August 26th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
I think Marvel should sit back and see what happens to DC. I think there’s a decent chance that their rebooting (again) of the DC Universe could hugely majorly completely backfire.
August 26th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
I think a relaunch is a terrible idea. I think that the reason people are not buying as many comics is because of the cost. If there is a relaunch, the cost will not change. It will remain the same and eventually go up again. People who have to this point not bought comics will continue to not buy comics. I feel that a relaunch (like what DC is doing) is alienating their current fans, some of which have been around for decades. It’s easy for me to say this because I was only getting a couple DC comics and mostly Marvel but still, if Marvel did this, I would abandon ship!
August 26th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
I think DC would’ve had better luck just having a strict two year policy of done-in-one stories to rebuild characters and grow readers. Cut down the multitudes of extra titles for one character and just focus on realigning a character’s core concept. One of the things that most comic companies have been ignoring for years is that the foundational “lore” for their characters is generations old to the point that an intended audience is not familiar with those stories creating a dissonance that just further alienates the market from the producers.
August 26th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Ideas for Marvel
Rebooting titles (again) – terrible idea
Less titles per month (at least 50% less) – excellent idea
Bring back the old Marvel banner – good idea
Ditch the glossy paper/modern colorization and bring back the old style feel/smell/look of comics – good idea
Get better artists instead of the 70% crap 30% good ratio – great idea
Or better yet, find a handful of artists that can emulate the look of 70′s and 80′s versions of Byrne, Mayerick, Brunner, Adams, Aparo, Newton, Buscema, Romita Jr and Colan and use them on all titles. Find an inker like Tom Palmer that can handle them all.
Reduce the price of comics back to “Still Only $.25″ – best idea yet
August 26th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
It’s funny, I was just thinking the same thing the other day. Only my suggestion would be to, instead of going the DC Relaunch Route, just flat-out end the Marvel Universe and start from the very beginning. The Marvel U is just too bloated now with failed starts, reversions, and convoluted history. Even if the Marvel Universe had started just 5 years ago that would be the case. Marvel was strongest when it started from scratch and then forged ahead for a bazillion issues, dodging and weaving but never looping back around on itself as if so much either didn’t happen or didn’t matter. I’d like a new Marvel Universe, please. (Or I’ll settle for a new superhero company altogether that’s worth its salt.)
August 26th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Why doesn’t Marvel start writing and drawing good new comics that people are interested in like back in the sixties and seventies? Has anyone opened up and took a look at Amazing Spiderman art lately? Complete trash, i’ll spend my money on older comics anyday. The writing is better, the art is more appealing and looking at the prices of new comics today, it’s just a better value !!!
August 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
T. and K-Box: stfu you retarded neckbeards
August 26th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
@Eric the illiterate turd – Nothing is getting wiped out in this reboot
August 26th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
All those retarded dinosaurs saying they stopped buying DC – good
Stfu and gtfo
August 26th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@deep_shock: Wow, i love the idiotic crying Marvel Zombies like this one.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
@T.: Why haven’t you blown your head off yet?
Your life is pathetic.
August 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I think that it would be smart on Marvel’s part to set themselves up as a sort of “anti-DC.” The mentality would be like, “Hey, comics fans, we don’t feel the need to reboot our continuity every few years because we’re desperately trying to one-up the competition. Come on by and check us out without feeling like we’ve chucked out 25 years of continuity (or 75, depending on which iteration of the DCU is in effect THIS week)!”
I’ve been reading comics for 20 years now and don’t personally feel the need to know every minute detail of 50 years worth of Marvel continuity. That’s where Marvel has consistently outsmarted DC by having recap pages at the beginnings of their books. Dan DiDio said in an interview once that he felt that the “need” for recap pages was a reflection of poor storytelling. Bullshit! What it means that you don’t have to waste space pointlessly in your 22– whoops, I mean TWENTY pages with backstory and recaps and characters using clunky and unnatural expositional dialogue to explain what’s happening. Marvel’s editorial policy seems to say, “Y’know what, yeah, that stuff happened, but we’re cherry-picking the best of the best here. You don’t need to know it all, just be familiar with the high points such as the Kree/Skrull War and you’ll be good.” See how that works? And, at least in my humble opinion, it has.
So, a line-wide relaunch/reboot? Needless, and pointless. I seriously doubt that after years of leading the market in sales, Marvel is going to want to be seen as nipping at DC’s heels now, anyway.
August 26th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
The history of the comics is what has always attracted me to them! I think it is amazing to read a story and find some small incident like maybe one character reacting in a way to another character that seems “odd”, to me…but then I do a little research..a little digging thru the older stories, to find out..hey…there was a conflict written here in 1969…and they are carrying that on into today’s story arc..that’s amazing! That’s awesome! WHY would you want to do away with the rich history of Marvel Comics?? What about the REAL fans…the “True Believers”, as Stan Lee says?? What about us?? What are we supposed to to when you take those beloved characters and those stories, and those interactions we love so much…and just *poof* it away? Just say it never happened?? I say to you Marvel Comics…if anyone out there is listening..PLEASE do not do to us what DC has done to their readers! Stay true to yourself…stay true to Spiderman, Captain America, and the X-Men! Stay true to your readers! We love you and your rich, amazing history, JUST the way you are!
August 26th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Brian Bendis is the George W. Bush of the Avengers.
August 27th, 2011 at 12:12 am
so comics are done who caress. There’s lots of other stuff to do. Who wants to play moon on blops? Mmmmmm videogames sooth the pain
August 27th, 2011 at 1:18 am
NO, please no
1 – Personally I think that in one year DC will be revert to the previous state (eventually merging the 2/3 good things of the 52 reboot)
2 – Every time, I think really every time, that some concept goes to the public at large (the “more readers” that the artist/Zircher is talking about), the concept is devoluted of many things and in a couple of years is cancelled. It doesn’t stick. This is the truth.
August 27th, 2011 at 7:33 am
These continual relaunches are the work of unoriginal creators. The reason the comics industry is losing readership is because it’s an insular medium. They do not advertise their product outside of the small groups of people who already buy their product and therefore, do not reach a broader potential audience. Comics and comic related properties, such as movies,t.v. shows, and toys have never been more acceptable to the general public, and yet, there are no commercials on t.v., no major print ad campaigns, no major internet campaigns, or even radio spots. Comic books have got to be one of the worst advertised forms of entertainment in the world.
August 27th, 2011 at 10:00 am
@ Rod: I completely agree. I also take issue with these big crossover events that they keep pushing. I used to read the main X-titles every month, but stopped when I became a poor college student (with the exception of X-factor). I was looking to get back into the main books again, but all of the “events” they’ve had in the past few years that cross the x-books and the whole Marvel U would mean I’d have to get about 4000 trades to catch up on 5 years of missed x-books. It’s just a bit ridiculous. If they’d just tell good, self-contained stories in each title and save the big events for every couple of years, (a) the events would feel more special and (b) it’d be easier for new readers to make jump into the current story.
August 27th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Here’s an idea:
instead of doing a Crisis Event killing everybody or a Big Reboot why not use the X-Men Forever formula where you pick a point in time where the Universe was younger and less damaged and decide to go back to it and say from now on this is the Marvel Universe? Think about it you would avoid all the worst Marvel had done in the last 15 years from the OMD to the Clone Saga to Cap Wolf to any ressurection and deaths that were not necessary. I’m not using X-Men Forever as the ideal example as that book had flaws but as the ideal way to make things work out. Say you go back to 1989 and how Marvel was back then. Then you say everything that happened after that in the books that we read since belonged to a Universe called “616″ the actual number of the Universe we have read the books in. But from now on you’re gonna read the books of a Universe called “1″ aka the real Universe. It start at the same place Marvel was in 1989 but then you take it somewhere else and creating a guide to make sure the same mistakes won’t be repeated.
No arm done since those that liked that 616 Universe they have 20 years of stories in various forms in trades and so forth to go back to. Marvel could even have a single title called “616″ for those that are content with how things are. But for a publishing company things need to get better and need to change because things are not working at and it’s a mess so you have to do other things.
August 27th, 2011 at 10:41 am
So no one seems to think that lowering the price point on comics would be a better way to get new readers in than a new reboot? All a line-wide reboot would do is maybe draw back some lapsed fans, get some comic fans who weren’t buying certain comics to buy them.
As thing stands right now, the comic industry seems to be trying to hold on to 100,000 fans. Yes, there probably are more people who like comic, but seeing as no comic can seem to break that number, it’s a safe one to work with.
August 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am
If I was a fan just now getting into comics (because of the movies) I’d be confused by the current slate of comics. If I walked into a comic store, and saw Wolverine #13 on the stands, I’d assume it’s not the “real” Wolverine comic book. My initial thinking would be “There’s no way Wolverine is only on issue 13. Where’s the real Wolverine book?”
August 27th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I don’t think that reboots are needed by anybody. And I don’t think that publishing less material is the right way to go. I actually think that they should publish more different books. That’s one of the few ideas that I like about the DCnU is that there’s slightly more variety. Aim things at different markets. Kids, men, women, the elderly. Instead of 50 books that appeal to the same audience, switch it up. I’m a twenty-something woman. I read sci-fi, fantasy, mysteries and romance (on occasion). Heck, that’s one of the reasons that I actually used to get Crossgen books when they were around because there was more variety (side-note: Enjoy both the Ruse and Sigil minis Marvel produced this year). And put books in places where you don’t have to specifically seek them out to get to. I got into comics because my uncles had books but I could also get them in the grocery store. Diamond is also one of the problems but I don’t feel like getting into that.
August 27th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
DC is broken. They have an overreliance on continuity. Marvel for the most part is continuity lite. Not as dependent as DC is. Marvel’s formula is working. Why mess with it?
August 27th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
The stories aren’t the problem. The continuity and the history isn’t the problem. The characters aren’t the problem. The problem is in the quality of writing and design. Look at Daredevil #1, and how much praise and success it’s won. THAT is what a “new” comic book should look like. The art pops, it’s modern, it’s fun, the writing is engaging, and the entire product is charming and it looks edgy. THAT is where the focus should be. Not in wiping clean everything we can identify with these characters, which is the thing that actually manages to sell what few comics are moving right now. Fix what’s broken. Don’t screw with what isn’t.
August 27th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
I’m for it. A middle finger to all of you guys who can only spew hate, because you’re mired in nostalgia and set in your ways. I love Marvel, and this would be a cool thing to do.
And to those saying it only takes 20 mins to read wikipedia? People today don’t want to read that much! They’re used to reading small things on their iphones and such. Kids my age (19) aren’t going to want to spend 20 minutes reading wikipedia or any wiki page, to catch up with something they have never read or liked before. I tried to tell my friend he could wikipedia, he just looked at me and said, “I don’t want to waste my time.”
I do agree that maybe Marvel should cut down on the amount of comics they have out, and get some new talent. Maybe some actual young people fresh out of college or writers who haven’t done a comic before. I, for one, would love to read a Ted Dekker comics book.
While I love comics, I wish I’d been born earlier because it doesn’t seem like comics are going to be around long enough for me to enjoy lol.
And I apologize for the harsh tone at the beginning of this. Just tired of everyone saying they hate something before it ever comes out. (imagine saying you hate Dr Pepper, yet have never drank it)
August 27th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
All Marvel needs to do is reduce the extremely ridiculously large line up of comics. They don’t need to “reboot” the whole thing… Geesh, can we stop with the reboots/remakes/”re-envisioning”? Especially, when it’s not needed.
All that needs to happen is what someone mentioned. Let the writers write the stories. As much as I like the big company wide cross-overs, I don’t need them three times a year. One every two years or so is just fine.
Plus, (Marvel) as much as I like certain titles I can do just fine with my favorite characters limited to just one or two titles. Do we really need them in four to five different titles? Talk about continuity conflicts!
The “New 52″ is such a waste of time. Yes, only one title hitting over 200K and seven others hitting just over 100K is a “fail”. We can all pretty much guess without looking which titles those are and I’d be willing to bet most are covered in bat guano. Don’t forget Todd McFarlane’s Spider-man #1 sold over 1M copies (not counting the variant covers).
Marvel (and DC for that matter) don’t need a wholesale reboot. When I was a kid I knew Superman’s, Batman’s, Captain America’s, Wonder Woman’s, Aquaman’s, and Spider-man’s origins before I ever read any of the comic books! So, the idea of convoluted continuity is utter B.S.
August 27th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
God no..
Marvel is the number one comic company. They have been number one for years…Why should they change everything?
August 27th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
As a long time comic fan who recently got back “in”, I think Marvel does need a re-boot. I’ve thought so for over a decade. I remember in 2001 Marvel had to consistently quash rumors of such a thing happening with the release of Ultimate Spider-Man…at the time I hoped they were lying. That was until i read the rest of the Ultimate books anyway.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the Marvel Universe, and I love being a “geek” and knowing the history and the ins and outs…but trying to get back in after missing five + years and keeping track of continuity has been a nightmare. I bought the Civil War trades to start, and stuck to trades more or less since. I’ve been buying books again only to leave me scratching my head. Wolverine was always the ultimate “outsider”, and now he’s on EVERY team in the Marvel Universe suddenly? WTF?!?!?
Just to show you I am not a philistine- I started on comics when I was about 8 receiving my aunt’s copies of the Amazing Spider Man second hand. She had a subscription to that, Conan the Barbarian, The Savage Sword of Conan Magazine and Conan Age Magazine. Yeah, I was cursed from the get go. From that point on all allowance money, all rewards for anything were for a trip to the comic shop. My father rewarded me for athletic accomplishments with comic books. There was a week in little league where I went 4/4 at the plate. That killed him. The deal was I got a comic for every base I touched while my team was at bat. That particular week I remember buying TMNT from Mirage guest starring Cerebus. I was eight. Who the HELL was Cerebus? Yep, so as as you can see…not only was I doomed to this life long affliction early, it was encouraged and fed. I was trained! Needless to say my title count got to be enormous. And then came the nineties and I started working, basically to collect comics UNTIL I got a job at the local comic shop. Which I ended up managing by the end of that horrendous decade. I LOVE MARVEL. I was never a marvel-phile. I ALWAYS read everything, but Marvel characters always stuck with me and spoke to me. From Spider-Man and Speedball to Wolverine and Punisher or The Hulk…there was little I didn’t read that Marvel put out. Then I stopped for a few years, but always paid attention as to what was going on….and then I started again, probably about a year or two before Ultimate Spider Man.
Anyway, I digress and have reminisced enough (I wonder if I could get my dad to buy my comics for taking my grandmother on errands….hmmmm…..).
The problems with the industry as I see it today are numerous:
1.) Availability- I never cared that mom dragged me on a shopping trip because I knew to keep me quiet it meant her buying me a few comics at the super market or drug store or wherever.
2.) Price- I I got five bucks a week for daily chores as a kid. That was SIX or SEVEN comics back then. Think a kid can afford them now on an allowance?
3.) Bulk- In the early 00′s I was amazed by how much everything scaled back from the gross glut of the nineties. Walking into a comic shop today was overwhelming for ME…and I managed a shop in the nineties!
4.) Art and Story- People keep mentioning these and I think they are fine. In fact I think compared to a decade or two ago they have improved ten fold.
5.) Continuity- IT’S INSANE. Marvel or DC! Both have been so convoluted, with characters having eight books three of which are in different time lines and two set in the past not to mention their mini-series and teams the belong to…it’s NUTS! Spidey, Wolvie (with the exception of the X-Men for Wolvie) these guys were always loners! Now they’ve been running around in the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men and god knows what else I might have missed because my mind short circuits looking at the rack!
I’ll admit I’ve ALWAYS been a sucker for the crossover…but the ONCE IN AWHILE ONE. Yeah CIVIL WAR, a crossover brought me back, but it seems people who I read are dead suddenly sprung back to life the next month and I have no explanation for it. Now don’t rant about too many characters being killed off and brought back- THAT has ALWAYS been the case in comics, but ten years ago I could keep track of who and when! Now it seems a character can be in one on-going book one week, but die in another book the same week or the next! Some teams and characters were completely unrecognizable when I returned this last time, and it wasn’t just recent story lines; there were cases where origins were changed at some point. It’s annoying as hell. For those of you who say, “Well they can use Wikipedia to catch up”, go look at some of the entries there and see if you can sort them out. It reads, because of the SOURCE material, like a convoluted mess. Like some fourteen year old kid is going to be able to understand EVERYTHING involving Jean OR Nate Grey. Hell reading their histories requires two more hours of research to understand them. I was lucky I had a head start!
Now the crux of the issue….YES we would all feel cheated somehow if twenty or more years of what we know was ripped away from us. That suddenly all that time we invested in loving and caring and hanging out with these characters suddenly didn’t count- but personally I think it is SELFISH to demand this continuity stay the same because of my own narcissistic pride. Let your over inflated egos go (mine
August 27th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
ugh that published when I didn’t want it to.
Anyway… LET YOUR OVER INFLATED EGOS GO! Mine is going to require the Infinity Gauntlet or the Ultimate Nullifier to somehow detach itself. But honestly, this medium is DYING. WE are denying the next generation of it by our selfish demands. We are denying another generation of hours of learning about and sharing new adventures with these characters. People are inherently lazy. You, me, the kid down the street playing Madden all day on summer vacation who kicks my ass online…we want the most enjoyment with the least amount of effort. Seriously, thinking these kids or even demanding that these kids go out and do some research (Twenty years of fictional history? That’s like research for a college thesis!) to follow along with a comic book character they saw in a movie they like is ludicrous!
So I would be all for a Marvel re-boot. I’ll continue to read either way. If I were a writer or editor at Marvel (and Mr. Quesada I could use the job) I wouldn’t even announce it. If I were planning it now, I would wrap up the current crossovers and give readers two years of self-contained stories wrapping up plot lines and sub plot lines in a subtle way…every loose thread, every dumb story. Then a huge company crossover. no mention of a re-boot, nothing. Just the crossover. At the end of the crossover= BOOM Universe destroyed or reborn. AND NO SHORT CUTS! The crossover would be months long with “hooks” and swerves galore. It would also tap into some sort of common theme or narrative that could be found in all the books or stories Marvel has ever printed…that all those things we enjoyed had been leading up to this, and THIS was the only logical conclusion. And this Universe WOULD need a new Watcher (but would get rid of all the infinite Alternate Universes where characters seem to come and go and are brought back to death from), say maybe a re-named Steve Rogers or Reed Richards of 616 becoming the new Watcher.
Well anyway….that’s my dumb idea, and I think it needs to be done. There are too many loose threads, too many plot lines, too many big events, too many characters in multiple books without enough time to even take a dump in between…it’s just all TOO much for the market with disposable income, for those with future disposable income. I for one want to see comics remain viable and continue to go on- ESPECIALLY MARVEL COMICS.
EXCELSIOR!
Oh, and I do like DC too….but THEIR reboot LOOKS HORRIBLE!!!!!!!! And to me it looks more about certain writers, artists and editors egos than about anything else other than chasing the all mighty dollar (which is a necessary evil).
Thanks to anyone who stuck in and read all of this insanity!
August 28th, 2011 at 1:39 am
How about instead a relaunch of Ultimate marvels continuity scrubbed free of Mark Millars cynicism?
August 28th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Two things:
1) Do away with all numbering altogether, if it’s that off-putting to new readers. Comics would then have only the date of publication, e.g. Uncanny X-Men (September 2011). That way, nobody gets scared of years of back-story because you’re making it quite clear this is the current issue and not decades-old ideas retrodden again and again. If you’re a collector then numbering will still be inside for reference purposes.
2) Nobody with an attention span short enough to be put off by finding out character histories or plot lines will stick with comics for very long. Those people won’t start buying comics month in and month out just because a line-wide reboot happens. Remember that every comic book is someone’s first issue. What puts people off comics is that, until recently, many characters were not widely known because the general public didn’t go into comics shops and didn’t know what a Blade or a Sinestro was. The medium is ghettoised. Comics has struggled for years to exorcise its Wertham-induced image of illiterate children’s fodder, so the last thing it needs is to put aside the continuing narrative format to become ‘accessible’. Give readers a character or story they will care about and they’ll make the effort to discover more for themselves without needing to be spoonfed. Japan has made sequential art work for years. Why can’t the U.S. do the same? We need to remove the stigma associated with combining words and pictures and stop pretending that people are idiots if they don’t cast comics aside in favour of prose upon reaching maturity.
Don’t be afraid to change the format or method of sale to attract anyone who is interested in comics, but please don’t sell the soul of the medium to try and desperately attract the attention of a society that is closed-minded and judgemental about them in the first place. If Marvel NuNiverse happened then it would undercut the legitimacy of the medium. Want more people to buy comics? Publish ones that anyone would read and hand over a reasonable amount of money to own.
August 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
I read all the comments on and of all day and JOSH R I FEEL YU MAN! IAGREE. NUT WILLGIVE DC a shot, but this idustry is in trouble, try what josh is saying it can work. EXCELSIOR MARVEL SINCE 72!
August 29th, 2011 at 1:27 am
It’s funny that no one here is bringing up the fact that all these publishers are in fact…businesses. They’re not your artist buddy who lives down the street and does drawings for you, they have to make money. You do whatever you can do to stay afloat.
Granted, I don’t believe Marvel is in danger of tanking, even in a so-called crumbling industry. Marvel was doing fine on its own and now that it has Disney ownership, there’s even less of a chance of running into trouble. On a side note, stop whining about Disney and Marvel also. No creative control is changing for Marvel, it was simply a good business decision for Disney, but I digress.
Those shouting that DC is rebooting because of their inadequate stories are typically just Marvel fanboys. Sure, DC has some titles that sucked…so does Marvel. Continuities are a little ridiculous across the board; but whether it has to do with gaining new readership or not, I welcome relaunches.
In particular, I’ve been reading Detective Comics and Amazing Spiderman since middle school (I’m currently 26). While these have always been my two favorite, most consistent titles since I started reading, a relaunch of either wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.
August 29th, 2011 at 7:28 am
i read marvel and dc for the continuity. i like the history of the batbooks and the legion and the x-men. but if marvel does this then i’m sticking with my Archie and Station V3. thanks a lot marvel and dc
August 29th, 2011 at 9:56 am
Go for it.
August 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am
Wintriguing-
I very readily agree that the medium is still reeling from the damage done by “Seduction of the Innocent” and by others who have made snide remarks about the “intellectual capacity” of comic books, which includes people like Tim Burton and (very unfortunately) Bill Watterson in his 10th Anniversary Calvin and Hobbes sketchbook thing. (Somehow in Mr. Watterson’s mind, he has convinced himself that the comic strip, a form of sequential art, is more “valid” than another form of sequential art, the comic book; I suspect a protective construct of his own ego.
HOWEVER I also very wholeheartedly disagree with your posit that a reboot by Marvel somehow undercuts the legitimacy of the medium. It is a very unreasonable and illogical conclusion, and I would argue that the “pap” that followed “Seduction of the Innocent” and in the early days of the comics code authority is a factor that undercuts people viewing the medium as a serious and valid form of art, literature and/or social commentary.
You can give new readers a plot they might care about for a few issues, but it’s the character that “we” fall for and keeps us coming back (as long as the stories about said character ARE good). However, if the new reader doesn’t understand WHY a character believes or thinks or acts as he does, they will fail to understand the character, and hence fail to come back. These characters, WE KNOW, are more than cardboard cut out cliches (for the most part), however to the new reader and outside world- that is EXACTLY how they come off, even after reading one issue.
And as for your comment about those with short attention spans not sticking around long enough, or not willing to do research on character histories- It has been suggested by MANY that comic books are IDEAL learning and literacy tool for those with ADHD (and as a child diagnosed in the early eighties when it was relatively new, I am the perfect anecdotal evidence). Also, as I stated above, doing research on some of these characters amounts to that (particularly of someone like Wolverine!) of a college thesis! Especially when to completely understand the research, more research about other characters and topics is required. Could you fully understand the history of Jean Grey with out knowing exactly what the Dark-Phoenix Saga, Days of Future Past, Askani, etc etc. were and why they happened and all the other characters involved? NO. The segment of the population you seem to be hoping and counting on is INFINITELY small in a society based on instant gratification, and one in which comics are competing with movies and video games for not only MONEY but for people’s INVESTED TIME.
August 29th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
One of More Day was the biggest piece of garbage I’d ever seen even before that last issue came out. How many things they tell fans they had coming for them? Unmaskings. New Powers. New costumes. New Jobs. A war that had nothing do with the main character. Everything from the Other to that last issue destroyed the book and the character. Now it’s hype, hype, hype! Every year or two it’s Brand New Big Time! We got new stuff you, but we don’t. How can anything really be as big as an actual story about everyone finding out who Spider-man was. Now, if they had an actual writer who understood the character and had actually had a great story worked out about everyone finding out who Spider-man was it could of been the biggest thing in years for Marvel and the industry. Unfortunanty, the writer they had was J. Michael Stracynski (Murder She Wrote)whose main idea was change the character and keep the main cast down to three. Marvel just does concepts now and tries to make a loose plot out of their books because the present stories don’t matter, the ones two years down the road matter more, but they don’t matter either for the same reason. Whose idea was that? We’ll tell readers we have the biggest story of all time and not do anything because we want him to be single.
I read the free Spider-man story they gave away. Not only was it terrible, it had very little resemblence to the character I read all those years. Everything about the book is apparently about four things: Nobody knows anything. Nothing really happens. It’s all about him being an Avenger or the other two teams he’s on. We totally mess up his villian cast in ways they don’t need to be messed with. Doc Ock looks stupid. He looks like a big blob of nothing.
I use Spider-man as the best example. There’s absolutely no way you can fix it. There’s nothing to do. If there were, it wouldn’t be a universe-wide reboot by the same people who think Civil War as a concept is all you need. You don’t need a plot and you can change characters all you want so Captain America could be anyone. In Avengers everyone was happy for a while and had no distinct personality. I don’t know why I was reading it, except I was always a Marvel fan. But who are these characters now? I didn’t buy into anything in Civil War. Not one page. Not one panel.
If they did a reboot you can’t make it another Quesada, Bendis, Millar production. It’s their Marvel now and I want a Marvel where I recognize the characters.
One More Day that was picture when I clicked on this article is (again) the biggest insult of all time in regards to comics. They won’t apologize for it and won’t say it was a bad idea. It made Spider-man the worst character in the worst comic book. They don’t give fans what they were promised and they don’t care.
That’s just one reason I’m going to be reading DC. It’s not the only reason because DC books actually look really good right now.
August 29th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
A.non-
You’ve bought into the whole concept you are arguing against! DC looks HORRIBLE to me right now with the reboot, and I think it’s about the almighty dollar (which is actually fine with me) and the creators over there’s EGOS!
You rant against the promises and the build up and all of a Brand New Day, and then go on to say you think DC looks really good right now? You’ve bought into THEIR HYPE this time instead of MARVEL’S!
I thought Civil War was fantastic and great social commentary. It dealt with a serious question, and though I hated the conclusion, dealt with it in a creative way.
I just don’t know how you can RANT against the HYPE, and then tell us you’re buying into it in the same post?!?
I’ve also never understood the “I only read Marvel” or “I’m only going to read DC” mentality…don’t you guys realize how much great stuff you miss out on with that “bigoted” mentality?
August 29th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
It would be great to see Marvel relaunch its titles but only if it makes some changes to go along with the relaunch. No more character overexposure for one thing. Give Spider-Man, Wolverine, the X-Men, the Avengers, etc., ONE…BOOK…EACH. And make that comic great.
I know it would be hard, Marvel, to break away from your current approach. But it’s a bitter pill that would reap rewards over time. Genuine character development could occur. People wouldn’t feel this constant pressure to buy multiple books that eventually causes them to drop all of them anyway.
Then, block the stories off in 4-12 issue stories. Then restart the numbering again! No reason to make people constantly feel that the storyline is inaccessible because they missed x number of issues and it’s “too late” for them to hop on the train.
August 29th, 2011 at 11:11 pm
So just pure personal experience here… It really baffles me when people talking about decades of continuity scaring away readers, because when I first got into comics, that’s what I loved about it most: The complex histories, the webs of relationships between characters woven over-time, the chance to explore these labrynthine continuities… my favorite book was Claremont’s X-Men – I started reading in the early 90s so it was just past the most meandering period of his run where the team was profoundly disjointed, scattered across the world, amnesiac… but it was just so rich, so deep, I knew there’d always be more to learn about this new world I was exploring.
August 30th, 2011 at 8:52 am
Stefan-
I got into X-Men around Fall of The Mutants.
Remember though- it’s been over two decades since Claremont, and in that time period multiple writer’s who have tried to imitate Claremont with varying degrees of success. Also remember that BEFORE Claremont (the MASTER) it wasn’t so complicated really.
August 30th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Marvel, how many times do you commit numerous re-numbering/re-booting, etc., etc., etc. to the point of self-parodying and the irritation of some, if not many, fans like us!? What’s next, going back to the hologram-covered type? Get real! We fans want exciting, interesting, engaging, intelligent, and thought-provoking stories and great artworks, NOT CRASH PROMOTIONS!
August 30th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
I don’t know but I never really thought “when does this take place” or “but he was in Africa when this happened” as important nor do i find when the characters origin took place important either stop looking back and just move forward with the characters.
DC rebooted but then kept many characters the same Batman has been running around longer then anyone else in this new DCnU problem with that is more then likely it’ll be revealed that Dick Grayson is Robin in Justice League 1 which makes all of Batman’s history impossible.
they should’ve been bold and rebooted everything the JSA is no longer on New Earth but Earth 2 cool then ship of the milestone, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. agents, Red circle, the Marvels, and whoever Blue beetle and Captain Atom belong too and give each of “universe” their own books then roboot the DCU before infinite crisis happened only keep core characters Superman, Batman, Wonder WOman, Green Lantern, Flash, Justice LEague, Teen Titans (tales of teen titans also but about individual teen heroes) and use Brave and the Bold, Action Comics, and Detective comics to showcase other characters and Green Lantern corps to show off DC’s rich space characters and switch up the cast in GLC not just Kyle and Garner or just emotional spectrum crap keep shit simple and exciting if you want more readers to follow your shared universe. and bring back the back ups
as for marvel how many times has Captain America and Thor been rebooted? they’re 5 X-men titles and 3 avenger titles nothing seems connected a reboot would be nice if everything was connected from the X-men actually playing part in an event (i mean actually being in Fear itself instead of Fear itself: X-men)
and both of them only make reading the event comic neccesary to read to get the full story then when last issue comes out every book reflects the changes we’re not all rich!
September 2nd, 2011 at 3:34 am
we read for different reasons. i never like it when a series throws out what has gone before just to have a fresh start. i hate this always restarting. relaunches and retcons (to update an outdated story component) are fine, but massive reboots to get rid of history to make it easy for the lazy reader aren’t.
(why reboot when you can have a story set in an alternate timeline, or for that matter, when you can have another imprint like Ultimate Comics or All-Star or Earth One for your alternate timeline?)
December 3rd, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Dear LordI thank You for yet another day!Lord,it is so good to be in Your perfect Will; that is my prayer today, that You Will arise and defeat all our enemies.Lord, I ask that You defeat our enemies both here at home, and abroad.Lord, I ask that You especially defeat the enemies in Iraq.ARISE O’ LORD In All YOUR GLORY!
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