It was the clash of the titans that no-one saw coming. While Ron Marz was responding to the outcry over Miles Morales being the new Spider-Man, as well as the Laurence Fishburne is Perry White news, on Twitter (“‘Worst. Week. Ever.’ — Racists.”), Scott Lobdell was busy responding to… Ron Marz:
Marz was understandably confused, retweeting the above and adding “Probably, since I have no idea what that means.” Lobdell’s reply was to the point (The following includes these two additional follow-ons):
[I]t means your daily Me Am Morally Superior To World rants are tedious and unoriginal. Let your work speak for itself. Wow! What a stand: “Racists am bad” Why not use your writing to change hearts and minds instead of shooting fish in a barrel. I find your pomposity fascinating. Take this as an Tweetervention: no1 stands up FOR Racism ‘cept morons. Ur impressing no one.
While Marz seemed confused in response (“Me Am Morally Superior To World’? Seriously? I was under the impression I’m allowed to think racists are bad people” and “Scott, please understand this is said with no malice: if my tweets somehow offend you, you don’t have to follow me“) before adding “It’s not my goal to impress anyone. I just say what’s on my mind. Sorry if that casts me as pompous in your eyes“, leading Lobdell to respond by suggesting “Hmmm. Maybe you just need to think deeper thoughts.”
I can’t be the only one wondering what is going on here, right? I mean, if you’re going to attack people for stating the obvious on Twitter, there are far more deserving targets that someone jokingly going after racists for being idiots. Clearly, there’s some backstory here that no-one else – including, potentially, Marz himself – knows about, but as ever, Kurt Busiek wins when it comes to commentary on the situation:
August 3rd, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Yeah, there’s got to be some back story here. I have to wonder if perhaps someone told Lobdell that Marz was bad mouthing his work — not that I know that Marz has done that, but that might explain why he’s so aggressive. And, let’s face facts, Lobdell is a popular target these days (not without good reason).
If any of what I’m guessing is true, Lobdell needs to step back. If he’s going to go after everyone who dislikes his work, he’s going to be going after a lot of people.
August 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm
You know, now that I think about it, perhaps Lobdell just doesn’t like the new Spider-man and is also NOT a racist, which is entirely possible.
August 3rd, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Very weird. Lobdell’s been very PR savvy since they’ve announced his name. He’s come off as humble and friendly in interviews and the SDCC panels. Now, all of a sudden, he makes himself look like a douche? I mean, he might now be a douche, but he sure looks like one there.
Just very weird.
August 3rd, 2011 at 5:03 pm
I have to admit that, while I’m a huge fan of Marz’ work, as someone who follows him on twitter, he does tend to come off as pompous and superior (morally and otherwise). That being said, to decide to call him out on it while he’s taking shots at racists is just weird.
August 3rd, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@Rich Johnston still hasn’t run this ‘story’ on his page yet. Wonder if he’ll take Lobdell’s side? Dear god the apocalypse cometh!
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:25 pm
I used to have a lot of respect for Ron Marz, but after arguing with him on Twitter. I realize that he is a jackass of the highest order. I’m sure John Byrne is green with envy.
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:31 pm
https://twitter.com/#!/ronmarz/status/98264482035417088
https://twitter.com/#!/ScottLobdell/status/98390798479007745
These might have something to do with it. Maybe Lobdell didn’t appreciate the insinuation followed up by even more comments on the situation? Lobdell certainly doesn’t come across like a douche, and he was one of many who was on @larryscomics case about his racist joke.
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:38 pm
I think Scott was right on the money. The “on the internet and vocal about racism” bandwagon is more like a stuffed clown car at this point.
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Michael E., how dare you. John Byrne has no equals!
I was going to post the same tweets Robert did. It seems like that may have been the final straw. If you go back 5 days through Scott’s timeline there are a few political comments Ron made that Scott wasn’t happy with.
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:44 pm
People who had racism and the tea party are, in fact, morally superior. Sorry, other people. Also, until there’s not a vocal racist backlash from these announcements, it’s important to show that comic book readers and creators aren’t all so backwards. That might get on Scott Lobdell’s nerves. His use of “than” when he means “then” in a tweet calling other people dumb annoys me, but I didn’t go and blast him on Twitter for it (I just did it here in a comments thread) out of nowhere.
August 3rd, 2011 at 7:45 pm
hate* not had. My moral superiority was so strong it affected my spelling!
August 3rd, 2011 at 8:03 pm
I could’ve done without seeing this. I wanted to buy Superboy/TT.
August 3rd, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Hmm. So it appears Scott Lobdell is a Tea Party sympathizer.
Time to update the DCNu sub list:
Teen Titians – Gone
Superboy – Gone
Red Hood and the Outsiders – Gone
Thanks, Scott. I’d buy a Tony Daniel book before lending a cent of my cash to a Tea Party loon.
August 3rd, 2011 at 11:15 pm
Sorry, but Marz is a horse’s ass and Lobdell is right.
August 4th, 2011 at 5:19 am
@TopJack, I don’t think it is clear cut and dry as it seems. When I had Ron Marz on my twitter, he insulted the entire fan-base like Lars Ulrich did in the 90′s. Saying we are all thieves for downloading comics illegally. When he could have been more tactful about it. Instead, he makes broad generalizations and back-handed insults to swaths of people.
That is why I will no longer buy any of his work. Even if Scott is a tea party sympathizer, he has been respectful to every one who comments on his facebook and twitter. I’ve never seen him insult anyone or make broad generalizations of people. Nor does he openly discuss his political beliefs and say those on the other end are morons, etc like Ron Marz does.
August 4th, 2011 at 7:19 am
Sageshini, my thoughts exactly. I’d abandon both completely right now, but a buddy of mine is working on TT and that forces me to give it a shot.
August 4th, 2011 at 7:28 am
TopJack, your post made me LOL in a good way. I like how you managed to burn both the Tea Party and Tony Daniel at the same time, well played.
August 4th, 2011 at 10:28 am
Maybe Lobdell was a member of H.E.A.T, and still hasn’t forgiven Marz for the destruction of the Corps/introduction of Kyle Rayner.
August 4th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Maybe individuals shouldn’t paint a group of people with broad strokes. Alot of people scream about tolerance and civility unless they come across someone that doesn’t share their view.
August 4th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Marz is wrong. Tea Party isn’t totally racist. As someone who considers himself a member and fan of Anime, Manga, and characters like Static and Luke Cage.
August 4th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
By the way true karma would be that Voodoo would be first book canceled. It will be anyway.
August 4th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
“Tea Party isn’t totally racist.”
Just mostly racist (which is obviously so much better than being totally racist).
August 4th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
This is awesome.
August 4th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
The Internets have allowed us into the hearts and minds of our favored creators, and I’ve decided this is pretty much not a good thing.
I don’t want to know that Bill Willingham and Ethan Van Sciver and Scott Lobdell are right-wingers. In the case of Willingham I’ve been able to overlook it because his Fables work is so damn fantastic. Van Sciver is very tough sell for me now given all of the asinine things he’s done and said. I was never a big Lobdell fan, but this makes it even less likely I’d try one of his new DC books.
Anyway, Marz is right. Anyone who is against the idea of a black Perry White or black/Latino Spider-Man is clearly racist, especially since the film and comic that features these characters have not been released and thus there’s no other criteria by which to judge. As for Marz’ Tea Party comment: To equate them with racists might be an overgeneraliziation. To equate them with other people who operate with a severely limited world view, well, that’s probably fair.
August 4th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Apparently, this is all blown out of proportion by the comic news media. Ron has said there is no spat between him and Scott. They have been friends for years, and this talk was about something else. Not the tea party. Both Ron and Scott are angry for Bleeding Cool painting this as something it wasn’t.
August 5th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
I lean to the conservative side of things and I realize that if I didn’t purchase anything from people that were liberal, I’d never be entertained by anything. At some point we all have to realize that there are going to be differences between us and by being adults we can agree to disagree and not name call.
August 5th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
The only thing worse than Twitter is someone criticizing the quality of someone else’s tweets…ON Twitter.
Also, say what you will about the so-called Tea Party of old, racist wannabe-libertarians—seriously, say anything! Insult their spelling, lament their unfortunate influence on the Republican party, make fun of their personal appearance, it’s cool—but I’m actually kind of SCARED of the prospect of the writer in charge of shaping DC’s teen heroes for a presumably new audience and younger readers is defending the Tea Party.
Not that one can’t be sympathetic with the Tea Party’s lunacy AND be a good enough writer to fake authenticity at the same time, but, the Venn diagram of “has positive thoughts of any kind about the Tea Party” and “appeals to teenagers” has to have a microscopic overlap.
August 6th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Calling an individual a racist is a pretty damning charge. Calling a group racist because their philosophy doesn’t jibe with yours is childish.
August 8th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
A lot of people are missing the point Lobdell was trying to make. He’s not saying people aren’t racist, he’s saying Marz is banging on about stuff as if sane people disagree with him and he’s the only one open enough to “get it”.
Yes, a lot of people are racists, going on about it on twitter is going to do what? You’re going to talk sense into them? No.
It’s like men who go on about being feminists, because most men are just pigs and oh my god am I the only man here that understands how much shit they have to deal with? No. No you are not the only one.
Yes, Marz. Racists are idiots and they won’t like white people being changed into black people. But you know what going on about it a lot does? Gives them attention. And that’s what the want. Marz LOVES feeding the trolls so he can have a go at them.
Not to mention his patronising stance of comic downloaders, comic book companies that don’t do books he thinks they should do, people who think this, people who do that.
He comes across as ridiculously smug, and I’d take five minutes of right-wing nutty Lobdell than one minute of condescending Marz, thanks.
August 8th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Remember when writers were judged on the merit of their work as opposed to what political beliefs they have? Those were good days…
August 8th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
After reading Lobdell’s interview over on the main page, I’ll retract my earlier classification of him as a right-winger.
Moving on to the theoretical, I still think that if an artist’s beliefs are anathema to you, it’s difficult to objectively enjoy their work. Possible, but difficult. I’ve decided to call this the Byrne Conundrum.
Interestingly, it doesn’t work the opposite way. That is, just because someone’s views jibe with mine, that doesn’t mean I’m automatically going to love their work.
August 9th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Hilarious….Lobdell is a douche and I would say I would would stop buying his books after this but I stopped buying them when Joe Mad stopped drawing them. It’s sooooo easy to “developed such a low tolerance for the use of the word “racism” when you’ve probably never been subjected to it. The word may mean nothing to you but the people that still have to deal with this in 2011, crazy right but its still running rampant, it means a great deal. I did not get that Mr. Marz was prompted to make his comment because someone didnt like Fishbourne as Perry, I got that he was prompted by some of the rather distasteful posts. I call that “calling it how I see it” and not cheaping the “power” of the word…..lol what a clown. He probably thinks it’s ok for white people to call black people “my n!gg@”….same difference right lets cheapen its power while disregarding the issue….is it ok to be liberal and blind at the same time? And I agree Marz comes across a smug sometime but then again dont follow him.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
“All day every day it seems people want to drive home the point that people who watch FOX are racists or people who support the Tea Party are racists — and it gets back to what I said earlier. Are we really at a place in society where we feel that everyone who watches a cable news network is racist? That the very act of watching television is racist? Everyone who joins a political party is racist? So does that mean we can assume that no one who watches the Daily Show is racist? No one who reads the New York Times is racist? No one who votes Democratic is racist?”
Absolutes are a fun way to obfuscate a point.
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