I may disagree with Tom Brevoort on… well, a lot of things, but I loved this take on the difference between DC and Marvel’s particular universes from his Formspring account:
I don’t think I really have the space to do this topic justice here. But to try to make a start of it: there’s a fundamental difference in the way the Marvel Universe and the DC Universe are oriented. By its nature, the DCU has a more optimistic outlook on the world, and the Marvel U has a more pessimistic outlook. Now, that doesn’t mean that bad things don’t happen in the DCU and good things don’t happen in the Marvel U. But it does mean that the DCU is a place where people look up in the sky and admire Superman, whereas people look up and shake their fists in anger at Spider-Man.
He continues:
But in a world of rampant cynicism, it’s easy to scoff at an optimistic outlook, and harder to make “sexy”, so DC seems to constantly try to make their world more pessimistic. But this clashes with the natures of most of their central characters–it’s an ill fit in the world of the Justice League. So it feels artificial, in the same way that you can only have an optimistic Heroic Age in the Marvel Universe for so long before things need to start coming apart again in some ways. To put it in other terms, the DCU is Aaron Sorkin’s “The West Wing”–it’s not how government actually works, but it’s the way you wish that it worked, the way you’d like it to be–idealistic, passionate, energetic, spirited. And so I wish that the DC hierarchy would spend more energy and effort embracing those qualities in their characters. Some of their key creators certainly do–Grant Morrison’s ALL-STAR SUPERMAN is a very optimistic work, for example, and that’s one of the reasons why it functions so well. And even something like DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, which is gritty as hell, is at its heart about a heroic ideal, a larger-than-life figure who rises up to champion the city in its time of need. But too often, DC seems to try to turn away from their core viewpoint, to make their characters darker or more dystopic or more downtrodden. And it just doesn’t play in the long run.
Later, someone asked him where Alan Moore’s DC work fits into this theory, and… well, he’s right again:
Well, Watchmen was published by DC, but it wasn’t a DC book, so it didn’t need to conform to the rules of the DCU. But Whatever Happened… is a story with a very strong optimistic viewpoint at the center of it–in the end, Superman chooses to eliminate his powers because he’s been forced to violate his own code and kill, despite the fact that such an action was justifiable within the context of the story. And thereafter, he finds greater personal satisfaction in simply being an ordinary human being who goes to work and does his job and comes home to his family. And, years later, Superman is still celebrated.
(I’d also argue that Watchmen has its optimism, albeit buried underneath a layer of cynicism so thick that it’s hard to see, but that’s neither here nor there.)
Now I find myself curious to see what Brevoort would do at DC, if ever given the chance…
July 19th, 2011 at 9:28 am
“Now I find myself curious to see what Brevoort would do at DC, if ever given the chance…”
Realize that optmism doesn’t sell and go the way DC is.
July 19th, 2011 at 9:50 am
“Now I find myself curious to see what Brevoort would do at DC, if ever given the chance…”
Probably push for more digital. The trouble isn’t that optimism doesn’t sell, it is that it doesn’t sell to comic book fans.
July 19th, 2011 at 9:58 am
Can’t say he’s wrong about DC being, at least at the start and at some level even now, the happier place. But for every long time fan who is frustrated or angry that DC is once again trying to be like Marvel, there is some non-reader who avoids DC like the plague because it’s too sunny and its flagship hero is a big blue boy scout. I think DC struck a great balance in the late 80s, when it had plenty of edgy adult books that were also still very much DC comics, things like Swamp Thing and The Question.
The really funny thing is that I like Marvel the best when there is that seed of optimism, the sort of thing you would see in Waid’s run on Fantastic Four or Capt America, where the heroism really did transcend the troubles of the world. This is why I like Ultimate Spidey so much of late, since for once the public supports him and even JJJ is a fan. This is even why I like the third Tobey Maguire Spidey film. Because it’s got room for Peter to be happy and to be cheered.
July 19th, 2011 at 10:17 am
I keep hoping that the new DCU will be a much brighter place (sort of where I THOUGHT Brightest Day would put it). I’ve met Didio and he’s not a bad guy but since he’s been in charge we’ve had Sue Dibney raped and murdered, Stephanie Brown tortured and thought dead, Black Adam’s genocide of Bialya, dead Teen Titans, and limbs torn from bodies too numerous to count. I’d like a difference between the two companies and Brevoort’s take is on the money IMO.
July 19th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
–Realize that optmism doesn’t sell and go the way DC is.–
Well, someone took my answer. Hell, early days of Quesada and Jemas that like to point to that and laugh as to why the books weren’t selling.
July 19th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
I couldn’t agree more with Brevoort on this.
Another analogy that comes to mind from the literary world is that the origins and backstory of DC’s core characters fits squarely in the genre of Middle Grade fiction, while Marvel’s core are Young Adult. By that I mean that characters in MG fiction face serious threat and even death, but the themes are generally all-ages. No one is battling alcoholism or racism in stories in that age market, not overtly at least. Harry Potter is MG and I think his origin story would fit right into the DC universe: his parents were violently killed by a big evil wizard and now he’s haunted by their loss and the big villain’s constant threat.
Marvel characters, on the other hand, have origins and backstories that tend to deal with themes that can be found in many YA novels: alcoholism, racism, duty to family/society, genocide, etc. Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games could stand next to any of the angst-ridden, hunted-for-their-race X-Men.
I’m definitely not accusing DC (or fans of DC characters – myself included) of being juvenile, just as I wouldn’t accuse a Harry Potter or Hobbit fan of being so. Some of the best characters and stories ever told are firmly in the MG genre. But I do think DC should embrace its MG heart and history and lean towards epic, high fantasy stories with all ages themes (All Star Superman, Wednesday Comics, e.g.) if they want to play to their strength.
July 19th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
@Ken M.
I would agree with that thematically, but not practically.
The people who work at my local store (Meltdown Comics in Los Angeles) told me that the people who buy DC books skew much older — I’m 35 and they said I’m on the young end. The Marvel books, on the other hand, skew younger — they clean up with those in their 20′s.
Which makes perfect sense to me. When I’m was younger, Marvel was always my choice. But I’m tired of angst and lost interest. But ten years ago, DC would have been way too “cheesy” for me.