No, I’m seriously asking.
This is Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
This is an unnamed foreign dignitary from X-Men: Schism #1, by Carlos Pacheco, Cam Smith and Frank D’Armata:
Now, I’m not asking “Wow, does an obvious swipe leave Marvel open to legal action,” because if anyone at the publisher was concerned about that, Greg Land wouldn’t be working on Uncanny X-Men right now. But what I am talking about is – That’s clearly Ahmadinejad. Yes, the Marvel U Ahmadinejad apparently started losing his hair earlier, but the similarity is unmistakable… which makes this panel all the more problematic:
Here’s my question: Could this count as libel? The character is never named (as Ahmadinejad, or anyone else), and I seriously, seriously doubt that writer Jason Aaron meant to make any statement about Ahmadinejad’s love or lack thereof of hitting children, but – receding hairline or not, that is clearly Ahmadinejad. Look at his ring above, and then at the real thing:
Legal minds, I’m curious: Could this count as parody, or fair use? Is it just a non-actionable “coincidence”? I really have no idea how the law works with this kind of thing – Is it similar to the McFarlane vs. Tony Twist lawsuit? That was judged in Twist’s favor, wasn’t it? – but it’s been bothering me since I first read the comic.
July 15th, 2011 at 11:16 am
no
July 15th, 2011 at 11:18 am
yes, the the president of iran is going to sue marvel/disney over this and a US judge is going to ignore any satirical component and the fact that political leaders are inherently public figures and award Ahmedinejad a huge settlement on libel grounds.
then theyre going to pull the original constitution out of the archives and take a big steaming piss on it.
man, look like marvel really screwed up!
July 15th, 2011 at 11:29 am
Parody and fair use are copyright issues. This is a defamation issue.
There are two things at play here. One is that Ahmadinejad is a public figure. Under US defamation law, public figures have to prove actual malice — that the author knew the statement was false and maliciously stated it.
Also, in fiction, writers frequently use real people as inspirations and then include absurd details that no one would ever claim describes them. If no one would ever claim that the character describes them, it’s difficult to bring libel action. At least one libel lawyer dubbed this the small penis rule (http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/24/books/writers-as-plunderers-why-do-they-keep-giving-away-other-people-s-secrets.html?pagewanted=4&src=pm). So beating children might be Ahmadinejad’s small penis.
July 15th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Visually, there’s enough differences between the 2 two images for such a case to get thrown out.
I think the real issue here isn’t the potential image swiping… it’s that the guy in the comic itself is a mutant because he has 6 fingers!
July 15th, 2011 at 11:47 am
hey remember when kim jong-il sued trey parker, matt stone and paramount because of their deception of him in team america, world police? that victorious suit set a legal precedent that i’m sure has the imams in the security council of iran licking their chops at the thought of such a huge guaranteed pay day. economic sanctions are no longer a concern for them!
July 15th, 2011 at 11:50 am
Oh jeez, Tyler, you’re right. Oh god, that’s funny. His pimp hand is one finger stronger.
July 15th, 2011 at 11:58 am
It is the 6 fingered man…”prepare to die”
July 15th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
Now is that 6th finger an artist’s mistake, or more evidence that it wasn’t meant as libel?
July 15th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
That’s the question… I know all the fanboys wanna say “artist mistake” to use in their ever-growing ragewar against Mr Land. But could it have been intentionally done to help protect Marvel against libel?
“Your honor, as you can see… the man in that comic book panel clearly has 6 fingers on his left hand.. how many fingers does Mr Ahmadinejad have on his left hand?”
July 15th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
Opps.. that’s not Mr Land… I’m so used to him being responsible for all X-Men image swipes… My bad
July 15th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
How did those lawsuits against The Three Stooges, Charlie Chaplin and Bugs Bunny go for Uncle Addy during WW2?
July 15th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
This is satire. Political satire which is protected speech. Personally, I think you guys would more upset if Obama was satire than a know dictator.
July 15th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
No issue. Check what’s known as the New York Times standard for malice and the Jerry Falwell/Hustler case from the ’80s. That’s if he brought suit in a US court. He could file a suit in an Iranian court, but there would be zero chance of the US cooperating in such a case. Or, at least, I would hope so.
July 15th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
I like how you say it’s “Obvious”. Not to sterotype, but he looks like an average middle eastern gentleman. I think this article is terrible and nothing more than trouble-starting for sake of “Breaking news”. Give me a break. It’s a comic book. It’s dumb articles like this that make movies/tv/comics/etc have to put condescending disclaimers like “These are fictional characters. Any likeness to persons alive or deceased is purely coincidental and unintentional.” Just stop.
July 15th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Would this not just be like a political cartoon?
July 15th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Kendynamo – The worst thing with that case was when the check was sent we didn’t attach it to the warhead of ICBM.
America! F*Ck Yeah!
July 15th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Greg Land strikes again…there’s no intelligence or commentary to the use of Mahmoud’s image, just artistic laziness.
July 15th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
even though Amadinejad proably has other things to worry and do then go after Disney and marvel what surely would fall under parody. odds are once some one shows him the comic pannel Disney Legal team may want to be ready to just sign a settlement and mail into to him. or try and get it thrown out of court.
July 15th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
This is a completely different middle eastern guy that happens to be standing in similar poses
. Receding hairline, six fingers on left hand… um… different forehead wrinkles… never identified as president of Iran. Was this at the UN? Does the Iranian president speak there often? (I don’t really know.) If the Ahmadinejad is never there in reality, why would he be there in Marvel Universe. Does it count as libel if many people don’t interpret that character as Ahmadinejad and therefore don’t assign the possible character defamation to him
July 15th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
people aren’t actually still wondering if marvel could get sued by this are they? even if the comic book was called “Mahmoud Ahmadinejad The Child Abused – The REAL Story about the REAL President of Iran and how He LOVES to Beat his Own Children” and every page was just a photograph of Ahmadinejad saying “hello, this is me, the real President of Iran, telling you that I love to beat the hell out of my children.” he couldn’t do diddly about it.
please dont tell me grown ups dont know that political satire is protected speech?
July 15th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
This is why I try to stay away from Newsarama. Epic Fail!!
July 15th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
GregLandTracesAgain Says:
July 15th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Greg Land strikes again…there’s no intelligence or commentary to the use of Mahmoud’s image, just artistic laziness.
Hey… i know you were just waiting to pounce on your bandwagon but that’s not Greg Land, it’s Carlos Pacheco.
July 15th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
But is it really Carlos Pacheco, or an image of Carlos Pacheco traced by Greg Land?
July 15th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
I hope this character in the book gets maimed and the mutilated only because he greatly resembles that prick in real life!
July 15th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
A six fingered man? Next thing you know we will see a sword-wielding Spaniard step forth to confront him saying “I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.”
July 16th, 2011 at 12:34 am
In no way is that “clearly Ahmadinejad.”
July 16th, 2011 at 1:22 am
I think that it’s a mix between Ahmadinejad and Rubalcaba, one of the worse politicians in Spain, check this photo of him: http://www.aquiconfidencial.es/es/notices/2011/07/rubalcaba_inaugura_manana_la_jefatura_de_policia_de_cantabria_y_un_encuentro_de_editores_en_la_uimp_4171.php
July 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am
I kind of thought that this guy’s “does not acknowledge the existence” statement, together with his at least vaguely similar appearance, was an allusion to Ahmadinejad’s notorious Holocaust denial and claim that there are no gay people in Iran.
July 16th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Does McMillan actually get paid for writing any of this? I finally understand why he’s so hated on this site. Cripes. If the article is absurdly inane, I don’t even bother checking the byline for his name anymore.
July 16th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Anyone remember when Marvel got in legal hot water for putting Magneto’s head onto a traced (at best) image of Spain’s King Juan Carlos? Seems like this could easily end up in the same territory.
July 16th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Is Graeme McMilcrap still posting articles in Newsarama? You guys need better reporters who don’t incite needless negativity in a dying medium.
July 17th, 2011 at 10:39 am
This is not a story. Seriously guys, politicians are public figures and could never build a case against any comic publisher using their likeness. You think all those publishers licensed Obama’s likeness, or that of his predecessor?
July 18th, 2011 at 7:31 am
I get that there’s no libel case, but I still think there’s something interesting going on here. To me, it looks like satire, in that the Iranian dictator is being depicted accurately, but in a fantastic context, as someone who denies what is obviously true.
July 18th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
“Anyone remember when Marvel got in legal hot water for putting Magneto’s head onto a traced (at best) image of Spain’s King Juan Carlos? Seems like this could easily end up in the same territory.”
I believe that suit was about the specific copyrighted photo more than just the appearance.
Its sad to see Pacheco jump on the tracing bandwagon with Larocca though. Just another artist whose work I can’t follow.
July 21st, 2011 at 4:21 am
OMFG, He’s Rubalcaba hahahaha XD
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&rlz=&=&q=Rubalcaba&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=645
July 21st, 2011 at 5:19 am
DC has Jim Lee, but Marvel has tracers.
July 21st, 2011 at 6:06 am
I think is a mash-up of Ahmadinejad and Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba, a spanish politician and candidate to the presidence of the country with the socialist party:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfredo_P%C3%A9rez_Rubalcaba
Considering that drawer, Pacheco, is from Spain, it´s not ridiculous to think so. So if Marvel could be sued for this, it would be from both sides, and I would say that legal actions from mr. Rubalcaba are more expectable, considering the popularity X-Men has among readers here in Spain, and the fact that we will have legislative and executive General Elections this November.
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:59 am
Hi, I’m from Spain, and when we saw this drawing we thought that Pacheco was joking about our vicepresident “Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba”, he is now the new candidate for the next elections in our country.
Pachecho did something similar in another comic using the face of a famous spanish actor “Santiago Segura”.
http://www.la-razon.com/MULTIMEDIA/PICTURESART/2011/06/19/20110619_25152.jpg
I’m sure that Pachecho use Ahmadinejad as an inspiration and just made a joke with Rubalcaba.