[Image by Gary Miereanu]
Who’s under the Red Hood? Bruce Timm knows, but he’s not telling.However, he answers a bevy of other questions in an interesting Q&A focused on the upcoming release of Batman: Under the Red Hood, and discussing the casting and art direction, revealing his across-the-board love for all versions of Batman, or setting the record straight on quotes attributed to him from a certain widely reported interview-that-never-was. Thanks to Warner Animation that provided Blog@, with this Q&A
QUESTION: What made Brandon Vietti the right director for Batman: Under the Red Hood?
BRUCE TIMM: Brandon is one of our up-and-coming director/producer types who has been with (Warner Bros. Animation) for a while. I’ve known him for years – he actually worked for me back on the Superman/Batman series – and I’ve watched him work his way up from being a top storyboard guy to a director. His work on the first third of Superman Doomsday was very powerful. When we were looking around for a director for this film, Brandon was very anxious to do something completely on his own, and I knew he was ready.
The thing about Brandon is that, besides just being talented, he’s super, super thorough. He’s very detail oriented. So it was a relief to me to have someone like Brandon in charge, because I could pretty much leave it up to him to run the show and I knew he wasn’t going to make any missteps. The end result is a very good film across the board in terms of action, emotion and design.
QUESTION: How did Judd Winick convince you that his comic series/graphic novel would translate well to an animated film?
BRUCE TIMM: When we first heard that Judd wanted to pitch Red Hood as an adaptation for our DC Universe film line, Alan Burnett and I quickly got copies of the book and read through it. My first impression was that it was an entertaining comic, but it was quite a long mini-series and it had all these tangents of supporting characters who came and went through the course of the story. Quite frankly, it was confusing to me and I kept thinking to myself that I didn’t see how a lot of those things would work. The big thing about the story is that it’s a sequel to a big event in the history of DC comics – the death of Robin that happened back in the 1980s – and I didn’t see how we could set that up, because it all hinges on being a sequel to that story. Furthermore, the way the pitch was arranged, we were in a room in Burbank and Judd was in San Francisco and had to pitch over the speakerphone. But amazingly, every single problem I thought we’d have trouble making into a movie, Judd had fixed in the pitch. Judd had already clearly put a lot of thought into the entire film – how to stay focused on the main story, how to clean up the death of Robin thing, and how to eliminate all the extra baggage. He pitched for about 45 minutes and when he was done, Alan and I looked at each other and said, “Yeah, that’s a movie. Let’s do it.” And away we meant.
QUESTION: Batman Gotham Knight was a collection of short stories loosely tied together and produced in anime. What made Batman: Under the Red Hood the right story to be the first true Batman movie in the DC Universe animated franchise?
BRUCE TIMM: Seeing that this was going to be our first full-length Batman movie in the DC Universe line, we thought we really needed to have a strong story that wasn’t just another adventure story or a caper that Batman foils. We wanted it to be something that truly needed to be told in a PG-13 venue that had a fair amount of, for lack of a better term, adult content that you couldn’t normally do on television. And this story is loaded with it. It’s also a personal story to Batman – it does have an adventure plot and a crime plot, but the emotional arc of the story is rooted in Batman’s messed up history with family relations. And especially in our animated universe, Batman always had a kind of dysfunctional family dynamic going on. He’s famously an orphan, he’s got Alfred as his surrogate mother/father, he’s always bringing in surrogate sons to mentor, and it always kind of goes badly. And this is, once again, one of the big expressions of that. So it makes for compelling drama as well as an exciting adventure.
QUESTION: A few casting questions. Why Bruce Greenwood as Batman?
BRUCE TIMM: It’s always a challenge to cast Batman because we invariably have to ask ourselves, “Who can we find out there who can hold their own against the legend of Kevin Conroy?” I’ve been following the career of Bruce Greenwood for a long time – I’ve seen him in a zillion movies and TV shows, and he’s always struck me as an actor who has this excellent, interesting voice and impeccable acting chops. And around the same time we were casting this film, I saw the trailer for the J.J. Abrams’ Star Trek – and there was Bruce Greenwood. So we tracked him down, he was agreeable, a great guy to work with, and he totally knocked it out of the park.
QUESTION: John DiMaggio has played many comical villains. How did you know he’d be best as a villain who is also comical?
BRUCE TIMM: The Joker is a very iconic part memorably voiced by Mark Hamill, and played in films by Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. Those are really big shoes to fill. John is a guy we’ve worked with for years playing tons of different kinds of parts, and every time we use him I think, “God, we’ve got to give this guy a bigger part.” He shouldn’t just be Thug #2 or the monster that Wonder Woman fights. We needed to give him a part that he could sink his teeth into. This Joker came up and it really required somebody who has comedic chops but also is a really good actor, and DiMaggio has got that in spades. He was definitely the right guy for the part. He came in and did something that didn’t sound anything like Mark Hamill or Jack Nicholson or Heath Ledger or Cesar Romero, and yet he sounds exactly like the Joker. He’s funny, and he’s scary as hell, and that’s just what you want.
QUESTION: What did Jensen Ackles bring to the table as Red Hood?
BRUCE TIMM: Red Hood is such a pivotal role in that he needed to be somebody who was forceful, threatening, weirdly sympathetic, and also had to be of a certain age. Not too young, not too old, just right. Andrea and I both knew of Jensen’s work, and he was one of those guys we had in our “Gotta work with that guy some day” file. And he fit the bill perfectly. He’s got an intensity in the booth that really matched the material.
QUESTION: Were there any surprises along the way?
BRUCE TIMM: One of the things I like the most about this movie is that, in the best possible ways, it kind of reminds me of a weird mesh of the Batman Beyond movie, Return of the Joker, and our first Batman: The Animated Series feature film, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. It has a lot of the same kinds of themes, it has the same level of serious drama in it, and the same level of really good character development. I think it’s actually fully the equal of those two movies. It’s dynamite.
Another interesting takeaway I got from this movie is that Brandon and I agreed that we really wanted to work to give this movie a unique visual feel. We deliberately tried to not make it look like Batman: The Animated Series. We tried a number of things in the art direction to stay away from that. But no matter what we did, it still kind of looks like Batman: The Animated Series. It’s weird. So when you watch the movie, there will be about four or five minutes in a row where you’ll forget about the different cast and slightly different character designs and it actually kind of feels like the series. On another level, there is a certain influence from the Christopher Nolan movies. It’s kind of in the tone of the film and the way Batman himself is treated and the feel of Gotham City. It’s not quite as realistic – our Gotham City is a little more stylized than the Gotham of the Nolan movies – but there is similarity in tone, which makes for a very interesting Batman salad.
QUESTION: Judd Winick said his first introduction to Batman was the Adam West TV series, but that he knew even as a kid that it wasn’t the Batman he wanted to see. You’ve said that was your same entry point to the character – did you ever have the same sense of Batman’s positioning?
BRUCE TIMM: Yes, my first exposure to Batman as a character was Batman the TV series. But honestly, I didn’t know it was supposed to be a parody or campy. I thought it was the coolest thing I’d ever seen. Of course, I was 5 at the time. But all in one fell swoop, I became an instant super hero fan. Later on, as I got older and started reading more comics and getting into the super hero scene, I realized that the Batman show was kind of a comedy. I was reading Neal Adams comics and thinking, “Batman is kind of cooler than that show – he’s kind of scary and mysterious.” So my perception of Batman changed over time, and then I went through the periods with Frank Miller and the Tim Burton movies. So now I’ve got these warring Batmans in my head. I still love the Adam West/Batman show. I still love the Neal Adams take on Batman comics. I still love The Dark Knight. All of these things totally contradict each other, and yet it’s fine to me. I’ve said it over and over again – Batman as a character is such a strong concept, he’s the kind of character that you can take him in any number of ways and it still feels right. Batman: The Animated Series is a really good version of Batman. Batman: The Brave and the Bold – that’s a really good version of Batman. They have equal value.
QUESTION: There’s been a lot of internet banter regarding the discontinuation of the DCU series based on quotes attributed to an interview in Calgary with you. True or false?
BRUCE TIMM: Kinda false. First of all, it wasn’t an actual one-on-one interview — quotes were taken out of context from longer answers Igave on a panel at the Expo. Bottom line: the DCU films are definitely continuing. We’ve got projects lined up for the next two years at the very least – lots of films in different stages of development and production. I know there are a lot of rumors circulating about future films. Some are true, some are not. I’ll tell you this much – anyone at our DCU/Batman: Under the Red Hood panel at Comic-Con will walk away with a very clear picture of the direction we’re taking the DCU animated movies in the coming year.
Batman: Under the Red Hood will be distributed July 27, 2010 by Warner Home Video. For more information, checkout their website: www.batmanredhood.com.
June 23rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
“We wanted it to be something that truly needed to be told in a PG-13 venue that had a fair amount of, for lack of a better term, adult content that you couldn’t normally do on television.”
Why for the love of God why does it have to be PG-13. I will hand you my freaking money and buy your DVD if you will just make a product I can watch with my kids. Most people see these things for the first time on Cartoon Network anyway. Idiots.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Considering a huge chunk of the audience for Batman products are adults, I don’t think they’re idiots for putting out products that have an adult appeal. There are plenty of Batman cartoons that can be watched with kids. It’s nice to have ones that are aimed at a slightly older audience.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@ Shannon Smith …
There are a million Batman cartoons out there for kids. Most recently, BRAVE & THE BOLD. Go find one of those.
If we have to share our toys with you, then you have share with us too. Not everyone wants to see a musical-comedy Batman.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm
The Under the Red Hood panel just became a must do for me in San Diego. I have to say I prefer my Batman at PG-13 or above, but I’m glad Brave and the Bold is out there for younger kids. We get to have it both ways. There’s no real way this particular story can be told in a G rated fashion.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Booyah! Give me a job Bruce Timm!
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Batman is a children’s character. Wonder Woman is a children’s character. The Justice League are children’s characters. Stop making these things PG-13. Also take notice to the fact that the sales of these things have been disappointing. Maybe that’s because they have isolated a large part of the audience. And c’mon. I’ve seen these things. There is no reason for them to be PG-13. They just throw in one or two slightly dirty words and some blood to pander to fanboys. They are not aiming at a slightly older audience. They are pandering to fanboys. Those movies are not adult. They are freaking super hero movies. C’mon!
(p.s. Brave and the Bold is just about the best thing ever.)
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
@Shannon- If you want a Batman cartoon you can watch with your kids, “Batman: Brave and the Bold” has you covered.
They are adapting this from a specific story that does have some pretty mature moments. They shouldn’t have to neuter the story so that you and your kids can enjoy it.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
“They shouldn’t have to neuter the story so that you and your kids can enjoy it.”
They shouldn’t have done the story in the first place.
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Hey Shannon!
Thanks for your opinion. Of course, not everyone would share your thoughts. Some comic books are specifically for kids, some specifically for adults, and many have some age range in mind. It can be the same way for animated movies.
dan j
June 23rd, 2010 at 1:58 pm
@Shannon
All those characters you mentioned are for everybody, and there are thing available for every age. The aforementioned Batman: The Brave & The Bold is perfect for all ages. As is Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The ANimated Series, and Justice League. All those are all ages. They aren’t just simply “for kids” they are done in manner where everyone from any age can enjoy them. And honestly, most of the DCU animated movies are in that ball park as well. Superman/Batman: Public Enemies would be good for kids, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern: First Flight, all good thing for kids, nothing too graphic aside from the usual super-heroics. And if you have a problem with good guys fighting bad guys, then honestly, super hero stuff probably will never be for you.
In the end, Under The Red Hood might not be the best idea for the 5-8 crowd. I could handle it when i was younger, but I’m not every kid. It’s not up to the company to tell you what’s appropriate for your kids. You have to decide. They do provide things for all ages, and they also provide for the older crowd, and the very young crowd. So really, where is your complaint coming from? Because if there is Batman stuff available for all ages, then why complain?
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. are not “children’s” characters. They are fictional characters, period. They are characters that can appeal to many different audiences depending on the story and the approach, just like dozens of other classic fictional characters. Superheroes being stuck with the stigma of appealing only to children is something comic fans have been trying to overcome for years. The market and the audience is large enough to support may different interpretations right now (there was a film called “The Dark Knight” not too long ago, Shannon, ever hear of it? Also not a kids movie). Let’s keep moving forward, not backward.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Shannon,
In all seriousness (and no offense/pun intended), I really don’t think you have any idea who or what Batman is. If you want to go back to origins and first issues, Batman #1 says it all. While maybe dated, the story is dark and definitely not aimed for children; the Joker winds up accidently stabbing himself in the end. Does that sound like a children’s story to you? The character was created by Bob Kane and was definitely not something you introduced to young children (even though kids always have had easy access to this media at that time).
Secondly, the character of Batman is one of tragedy; what makes him a children’s character? His parents got murdered in an alley when he was 7 years old or some age around there; not the kind of story I would introduce to any kid at that age. When the 60s show was released, none of those subjects were touched for a reason – it is NOT kid friendly.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:08 pm
@G:
“They shouldn’t have done the story in the first place.”
And yet they did, deal with it.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Perhaps Shannon simply glazed over the part where Bruce Timm points out Batman is the kind of character that can transcend a specific genre. I don’t understand why she’s complaining. Go watch the Super-Friends.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Shannon, you answered your own question of why there diminishing returns. It will be shown on cartoon network, so why buy the dvd? Plus a percentage of comic readers are digital pirates so, why buy it when you can get it for free. Also, those other titles haven’t been adaptations, this is. So watering it down WOULD effect the story. Would you have watered down Watchmen? AAfter all those characters were based off children’s characters so by your logic it should have been a G film, not a R rated one. If they want to put out a pg13 product it is their right to put a pg13 product. As noted their are serveral g and pg batman animations so we can have our cake and eat it too.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:12 pm
@Shannon Smith
Firstly, these characters are not “for kids”. Can they be adapted for younger audiences? Easily, but considering Batman’s earliest appearances had him carrying a gun, I wouldn’t say he was made “for kids”.
Secondly, you answered your own question on why it would be a PG-13 production. I’d wager that most of the individuals buying and reading comics, these fanboys you speak of are adults. The people who read the specific story arc that this film was based off were more than likely adults. That’s just the way it is.
And as mentioned there are MANY alternatives if you think PG-13 is too much for your kids. Brave and the Bold as mentioned repeatedly is solid entertainment for all ages. I’ve found it to be one of the best superhero cartoons in my life. It’s action-packed, humorous and charming. You’d do wise to give it another look.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
@Batman1084
While I disagree with Shannon’s tone, I think you’re missing some important points too
Back upon Batman’s first few years, violence like that was the norm in comics, and they were considered characters for, at the very least, all ages. Kids would eve read pulp stuff like the shadow and listen to show like The Green Hornet, which dealt with murders and racketeering and such things.
Even stories marketed as straight forward children’s tales are filled with death. From Grimm’s Fairy Tales to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, rather graphic descriptions of violence were the norm.
So using his dark origins of his parents’ deaths for proof of why he’s a more mature character is a faulty leg to stand on at best. And yeah, they did address the murder of his parents on the 60s show at least a couple of times. I know because when I saw them recently I flipped my lid in shock. And the 60s show really was not as kid-friendly or kids only as it appeared. Watching it now I really appreciate some of the satire and innuendo placed in it.
The point of it all is Batman is a character for everyone, young and old. There’s stuff out there for everyone to enjoy, whether you’re 3 as I was when i was introduced into his world or 30. It’s what’s great about him and many other comic characters, he’s there for everybody to enjoy.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Shannon, chill out. Batman has evolved. There is a market for PG-13 animation, and LOTS more to come. Cartoons aren’t just for kids anymore. The people making them are also fans. They know what they want, and what our demographic wants.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Gotta say, with the Jonah Hex movie having bombed the way it did and knowing there’ll be a Jonah Hex animated short on the Batman: Under The Red Hood 2 disc dvd and Blu-Ray…I’m thinking that we’ll see a lot of people liking the J.H. animated short infinitely better than the live-action movie…just a thought.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm
I’m just glad they are contiuning these movies I heard this was gonna be the last one and I’m just glad we are getting more.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:53 pm
I really wish you could have asked about the other raised in that interview. The fact that they were going to make a Batgirl: Year One movie, and then decided against it because apparently if Wonder Woman sales don’t follow their expectations, all movies with female leads won’t sell.
Which was pretty poor logic, considering that Wonder Woman also sold the same as Green Lantern: First Flight and DC: New Frontier, and yet people aren’t talking about Green Lantern and Hal Jordon don’t sell well in movies.
June 23rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
I’m so happy people like Shannon aren’t in charge at Warner Bros./DC
June 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 pm
I don’t even know how Shannon found this website. With that point of view, she’s obviously not a regular.
June 23rd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Shannon’s “Comic-book characters are for kids” argument should’ve fallen apart the moment Dr. Manhattan’s blue wang made it’s apperance 20 some odd years ago.
She should give her kid some copies of ‘Swamp-Thing’, ‘The Sandman’ and ‘Hellblazer’…those are the REAL super-friends!
June 23rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Regarding these movies/stories target audiences: I remembering reading the original trade of “Death in the family” back when I was 7 or 8 and it was quite shocking. As many I was introduced to Batman with the Adam West show and was used to the Joker as a colorful fun buffoon, and seeing actually murdering a person was shocking, even more
—-spoilers(you never now who haven’t heard it before the movie)—-
seeing him beat the life out of Robin with a crowbar and then blowing him up with his mom skyhigh and then Batman finding the cold disfigured corpse, was of incredible shock when I was a kid, because apart from the violence it was the first time I saw an important character die, more importantlly a kid, and the villian actually got away with it! The Joker became a real macabre villian in my head from that moment on. It did got me to think about comics and superheroes in a whole new light, with all this dramatic tone, so though it was maybe too intense the lastign effect was that it got me more interested.So there you got for kids wanting childish stories, and let face it kids aren’t stupid , the original Grimm Bros. “child” stories were quite intense also.
June 23rd, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Didn’t give a shit about his story when it was a comic, give even less of one now it’s a cartoon.
After the last few dismal efforts from DC and especially as the’re just playing safe with the big two (that was a none answer at the end if ever I read one) my interest in the Animated DCU ends with Wonder Woman.
June 23rd, 2010 at 5:51 pm
“my interest in the Animated DCU ends with Wonder Woman.”
Sadly ,lead sharp, I have to agree… Wonder Woman is the only DCU Direct movie I’ve truly enjoyed. Even that one wasn’t “perfect,” but it was pretty damned good. All the rest of them? They’ve ranged from “Meh” to “Crap.” None of them have been as good as Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, or Justice League generally were.
Part of the problem is choosing lousy stories to adapt (Red Hood, Public Enemies), and the short running times have been another. Even tales that were more less originals (First Flight) have suffered from weak writing.
Finally, it kills me to hear Timm say “Who can we find out there who can hold their own against the legend of Kevin Conroy?” Umm… Why not just give Conroy a nice contact to be the exclusive voice of Batman in these films? I like Greenwood (Nowhere Man was a favorite show of mine), but pretty much everyone considers Conroy to be THE definitive voice of Batman. Why go with anyone else? I feel the same way about all of the voice actors who worked on the Superman and Justice League shows. Why ever use a Luthor other than Clancy Brown, for instance?
Maybe I’m just mad that DC/WB lied to us about The Judas Contract, but I think these movies aren’t worth the price. Timm mentioned Mask of the Phantasm, but he has yet to make a DCU movie as good as that one.
June 23rd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
“Also take notice to the fact that the sales of these things have been disappointing. Maybe that’s because they have isolated a large part of the audience.”
Welcome to the world of modern comics! Catering to a hardcore niche of the fanbase to the detriment of the industry happens to be our specialty.
“And c’mon. I’ve seen these things. There is no reason for them to be PG-13. They just throw in one or two slightly dirty words and some blood to pander to fanboys. They are not aiming at a slightly older audience. They are pandering to fanboys. Those movies are not adult. They are freaking super hero movies. C’mon!”
I agree that the idea that ALL of these DCU movies have to be PG-13 no matter what is ridiculous. Who else thought the swearing and blood in Green Lantern: First Flight were completely gratuitous? That movie was decent but the bloodiness in particular could have been completely done away with, and it would only have IMPROVED the movie. Now, I understand that REMOVING blood and gore might seem like an alien concept to some of the guys at DC, but bear with me…
HOWEVER, Batman: Under the Red Hood needs to be PG-13, because this time the story DOES require it. It’s an adaptation of A Death in the Family and Under the Hood, so it can’t not be violent and bloody or else it completely loses the impact of the original stories. The rating should suit the story, not the other way around.
June 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
bruce timm…i hope u never stop making movies. and to shannon….no one cares about your kids. idiot.
June 23rd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
First of all in regards to Shannon’s comment if Superman Batman and the JLA are all “childrens characters” why are the people buying the comics all in their mid 20s early 30s? Secondly the reason these movies are PG 13 should be obvious. I mean look at Superman/Doomsday. As far as future films go i think the ones based off storylines from the comics have been the best ones. Save the origin stories for the live action features. That being said I would love love love to see a Kingdom Come animated film but only if they get Alex Ross as a contributing storyboard artist.
June 23rd, 2010 at 8:14 pm
I’m with Shannon. I bought the Wonder Woman movie, hoping that I could watch it with my four-year old daughter. I previewed it, of course, as a responsible parent should, and…yeah, not so much. It’s a gorgeous movie. I love the character designs, the color palate is spectacular, but the bloodless beheadings and impalements were just unnecessary and gratuitous. “Your daughter has a nice rack.” Really? Does that titillate anyone?
These movies really don’t have anything crucial to the plot or that’s necessary to telling an interesting story that couldn’t be done in a PG movie. If anyone tells you otherwise, they’re a lazy writer.
Here’s the thing about the 20- and 30-somethings that these movies and current comics are targeting: The numbers are dwindling. They’re getting smaller and smaller and what they’re going to need to do is start trying to get a younger audience to buy their products. Despite blockbuster box office from the Dark Knight, Iron Man, etc., the comics and direct-to-video movies are foundering.
Batman1084, you couldn’t be more wrong about Batman #1. The story was most assuredly for children. And for the rest of the comments directed at Shannon about the characters not being children’s characters: They are and were always children’s characters while they sold in the millions and the many hundreds of thousands. Now they’re not children’s characters and they are lucky to sell in the low six figures.
June 23rd, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I think overall these movies have been good but not great. We kind of expect great, especially given the high quality we’ve been treated to for years with the Batman, Superman and Justice League shows.
Sadly some of the scenes which seem to be the ones that warrant the PG-13 ratings are ones that do come across as unnecessary and less sophisticated than we’ve come to expect from Timm and crew. They’re also the ones which are easiest to target, easiest to cut and the ones which do, in fact, limit the audience for some of these movies.
If the story warrants it, then add in the adult themes, blood, violence, etc. If it doesn’t, then do away with them. Hitchcock did a marvelous job suggesting violence rather than showing it, and those films still work. Even the Batman Animated Series did it brilliantly – I can’t remember the name of the episode form memory (“Robin’s Reckoning”), but I still remember the way Robin’s parent’s deaths was communicated using shadows, and it worked a treat. That’s just one example – and there have been many, many, many from the Timm produced series.
From a marketing perspective, the larger the audience, the more money you’ll make. From a storytelling perspective, the more stylish the film, the better it will be received, and recommended, and bought as presents, and shared around, etc.
And, I can say this as someone in his mid-thirties with a 7 year old nephew, it sucks when your nephew goes through your DVDs and wants to watch these awesome characters that I grew up watching and reading, and I cant show him the vids for the sake of a few scenes which frankly aren’t that good.
Comic characters aren’t just for adults after all.
June 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 pm
The problem with PG13 is that for every 1 comic fan that will watch a PG13 (like me), there are 1000 parents that will buy a movie for their kids. I would love to have something truly good like the Batman Animated series or even the Superman series that followed for my kids that we could enjoy together. Cut some language here and there from the Red Hood movie, and you could have a great movie to watch with kids and adults. The genius of Pixar is that they figured this out and made what may be the best Fantastic Four movie that will ever be made in The Incredibles.
June 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Devil_Hanzo Says: “I don’t even know how Shannon found this website. With that point of view, she’s obviously not a regular.”
Yeah, and she’s not likely to become a “regular” after the way so many other “regulars” have been bad-mouthing her (and I’m not talking about Devil_Hanzo; I’m just using his post to make a point). God forbid the comic book industry try to do anything to broaden their fanbase and reach out to a younger generation of fans. I’m not saying that EVERY comic book or animated cartoon has to be aimed at kids, and there are plenty of PG and G rated comics and cartoons out there for kids. But that doesn’t mean we should be chasing away potential family audiences with a stick either! When older fans like the rest of us are gone, who will be left to read these comics or watch these animated movies? If I were Shannon, I’d be a bit apprehensive about bringing my kids to a comic book store or convention after the way she’s been treated on this website, which just reinforces the stereotype that most comic book fans are a bunch of obsessed and angry loners.
I’m just glad that when I was a kid, the publishers and animation studios produced material that was suitable to my age, because if everything had been rated PG-13 or R, I probably wouldn’t be a comics fan today. If I were a kid today and saw a DVD with Batman–whom I only knew previously from the Adam West TV series or the SUPERFRIENDS cartoons–I would definitely want that DVD, and I would have a hard time wondering why my parents wouldn’t buy it for me. I could also understand why a parent might be confused by this and think, “Batman? This is the same character my kid watches on TV. Why is this DVD rated PG-13?” While I’m glad that not everything is written as simplistically as it was when I was a child, I think that if you’re making a movie or comic book today and can do without foul language or blood, then does it really hurt to clean it up a little and make it more acceptable for a larger audience?
Of course, part of the problem is that foul language and violence is often added to movies specifically to earn a higher rating. To most audiences, a G rating automatically makes it “a kid’s movie”, so unless it’s Disney/Pixar most adults are going to be inclined to stay away. This is why some movies go out of their way to add in a swear and some blood, because they want to get a PG or PG-13 rating, thinking that will draw a larger audience. So, the ratings are actually being used to appeal to certain audiences rather than the movies themselves.
While Shannon was out of line with her “idiots” comment, some of the responses posted here only prove her correct. Please, if you love the comics medium and want to see it to continue to thrive, then advise someone like Shannon to go out and watch BRAVE AND THE BOLD on TV or read SUPER HERO SQUAD with her kids (which some of you already have). Must we automatically run her off because she’s not familiar with the various Bob Kane/Adam West/Neal Adams/Frank Miller/Bruce Timm versions of Batman? (“Hey, look–she’s not a ‘regular’! Let’s get her!”) I work for an organization that uses comics to promote literacy, and I know that kids are eager to read comics, if they aren’t too complicated (in other words, without having to read all of the INFINITE FINAL IDENTITY CRISIS ON 52 WORLDS crossovers to understand what’s going on).
June 24th, 2010 at 12:16 am
@ Jim McClain
WHy exactly are they characters JUST for kids as opposed to everyone? Neither you nor Shannon has answered that, and I find quite honestly no reason for a lack of answer to that.
Let’s take a literary character such as Sherlock Holmes. This is a character that is ingrained in the popular culture of the world in a similar way to Batman or any other super hero. There’s an image of hi, and there’s stuff out there featuring him readily available for kids. However, there’s also much out there not at all suitable for kids in your or Shannon’s view. IN quite honesty, the original Holmes books would not be appropriate given the protagonist is a major fan of opiates.
And if you REALLY want to play the numbers game to prove your point about Batman being “for kids” as opposed to everyone of any age, then let’s look at things as they stand.
After the inital comics boom of the 30′s and 40s, there was a severe implosion. This was during a time when comics were considered just for kids. And business was bad. Barely any hero escaped it, with the exception of Batman, Superman, and I believe Wonder Woman. Then after a decade or so they came back. Numbers picked up a lot and a second boom occurred right around the debut of the Marvel books and the Batman TV show, which while friendly to kids on the surface, did not neglect the adults at all and threw in some sly humor. Another boom period that lasted. Then there was another fall that made both big companies have to withdraw heavily their lines. THe decline was not as bad as the original one, and business really picked up again in the 80s, and come the 90s, another decline.
But if you notice something about those booms and declines,they are cyclical more than anything, the biggest happening when comics were considered just for kids.
You’re a parent, I get it, I respect it, but you want to make up facts that just aren’t there. You want to lay claim to something as being just for kids when it’s not. Such a thing is just as greedy as someone saying “Oh, this character is just for the mature viewer/reader”. Plain and simple, it’s not fair, and quite frankly very childish.
Super-heroes are for everyone. Several people have mentioned shows like The Brave & The Bold, Super-Hero Squad, and many others. How are such things not perfectly viable options? It seems as though i am missing something in the equation.
I’m a lifelong fan of Batman myself, from the age of three till now. I watched Burton’s Batman at the age of seven, and was blown away. Some may say I was too young, but that was the choice my parents ended up making, and I’m not screwed up. And I also appreciate every form of Batman out there(Batman Forever and Batman & Robin excluded). He’s for everyone. Not to be reserved for any age group.
THe bottom line is there is stuff out there aimed at the younger crowd. There is and that is fact. It’s on the DVD rack. It’s on the TVs. It’s even on comic shelves. What it all comes down to is parental choice. The choice every parent has in how to raise their kid, and that’s not anything anyone should infringe on, at all. And claiming ownership of characters by one sect saying “this is for us mature readers, kids can’t like it” or the reverse of “This is only for kids, stay away” is quite frankly a load of bull.
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, they are for everyone. There is no argument, nor should there be. There are options and choices out there for everyone. So why can’t we just chill? Why does one side have to be right and one have to be wrong? Why can’t we all just chill out instead of freak out? These characters are, and will always be, FOR EVERYONE.
They are timeless and ageless. No more bickering, no more fighting. There’s room for everyone in the Batcave.
June 24th, 2010 at 4:34 am
Show Batgirl getting raped by the Joker, or Wonder-Woman getting raped by Capt. Nazi, and sales will climb through the roof.
Come on, is it gonna be “DC” or “PC” comics?
June 24th, 2010 at 7:27 am
Wow – successful troll is successful.
June 24th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Thanks to Dylan, Jim McClain, TheBedovian, Jason Roberts and Danny D for saying what I meant to say better than I could.
I’m not against grown up comics. I’m also not against Warner making adult product with these characters. I liked the Dark Knight plenty. I’ve just got a problem with these DCU movies throwing in some blood and “adult” dialog to get a PG-13 rating as an obvious marketing tool.
I actually like these DCU movies. I just think Warner is throwing money away by making them PG-13. Alan Thorton made my point pretty well saying, “Shannon, you answered your own question of why there diminishing returns. It will be shown on cartoon network, so why buy the dvd? Plus a percentage of comic readers are digital pirates so, why buy it when you can get it for free.” Yeah, so basically, the only people left that buy DVDs like this are the ones that buy them for their kids and a lot of them won’t because of the PG-13 rating.
I probably should not have called anyone “idiots” but it is really idiotic that you can’t give the Wonder Woman DVD to young girls. Absolutely backwards. And I’ve got a huge stack of Barbie DVDs saying that I’ll pay money for DVDs for my kids as soon as Warner makes them.
Oh, and I’m a man.
June 24th, 2010 at 8:46 am
I think the point that Shannon is trying to make that many of you are missing is that comics can be for all ages (kids included), so why cheapen the rating with a couple gratuitously vulgar scenes when the adventure can be conveyed with a more age friendly rating. The argument isn’t that comics are for kids only, but they are for kids too.
June 24th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Yeah. What Adam-Bin said. And part of what gets me worked up is that these things are marketed to kids. They are shown on Cartoon Network. Kids do see the covers to these things and want to buy them. Ya know, because they have Wonder Woman and Batman on them. The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Maybe a PG-13 rating sells more tickets at the theater. I don’t know. Maybe it does. But does Warner have any real evidence to suggest that it sells more DVDs? The fact that Timm and others have to come out and make statements about disappointing sales makes me think otherwise.
Oh, and I’ve been reading Newsarama since about 1998. I heard about it through something I call teh intronets. I just don’t comment very often.
June 24th, 2010 at 9:57 am
The PG-13 rating means nothing as long as Walmart and Target put these in the kids section right next to Scooby Doo, Yugio, and the Care Bares. The general public is going to think they are kids movies, regardless of what the creators intend or the ratings.
June 24th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Shannon and everyone else in shannons camp: You guys are missing the point. This particular batman movie is ADAPTED from a comic book thats more adult in nature. Not every batman animated movie has to be KID FRIENDLY.
Also, i don’t see whats wrong with PG-13? I mean shit, Jurassic Park was PG13 and my parents took me to see it when i was younger. Indiana Jones is PG13. Parents these days shield their kids from too much stuff. This is why half the cartoons out now are horrible.
If looney toones or tom and jerry came out today instead of 50-60 years ago they would be horrible. Or ended early. Or just lame cartoons with no anvils dropped on heads or shot gun blasts making beaks spin around or tails getting chopped with axes.
June 24th, 2010 at 10:40 am
@DannyD:
“Yeah, and [Shannon's] not likely to become a “regular” after the way so many other “regulars” have been bad-mouthing her”
When I said “a regular,” I meant both a Newsarama regular and a regular reader of comics. If he (as we just found out) was aware of the source material this particular movie is based on, then he would understand why this is rated PG-13.
I agree that adding swear words, sex, and blood for no reason is fanboy pandering, but again, it doesn’t really apply for this particular story. In fact, I read an interview a while back stating they had to cut some things out just to get the PG-13 rating otherwise it might have been rated R.
I get Shannon’s complaint though, I really do. However, as we’ve all pointed out, there is an all-ages Batman out there, so again I ask why does all the Batman merchandise have to be kid friendly?
BTW, just because Cartoon Network shows it, doesn’t mean it’s for kids. There are all kinds of late-night programming on CN (Adult Swim) that would not be appropriate for children.
Blaming Timm doesn’t help matters at all. He just adapted the story that was pitched to him by Winick. Could he have adapted something more kid friendly? Probably. Hey, I wouldn’t mind if they released some Batman: Brave and the Bold features (wouldn’t be from Timm & Co.), but you already get that for free.
Also, it’s not WB/DC’s fault that Wal-mart & Target are going to stock this movie next to Scooby-Doo and Ben 10. It’s the responsibility of parents (as Shannon has demonstrated) to look into things before buying them for their kids.
June 24th, 2010 at 11:38 am
And I did not mean to blame Bruce Timm. That guy’s positive contribution to comics, cartoons and cartooning over the past decade or so can’t be over stated. My disappointment is really with whoever at Warner Video (or Warner Premier or whatever it is called now) decided that these things were going to be a uniform PG-13 as opposed to letting the story and the creators make the best movie they can make and then let the rating fall where it may. I don’t know who made that call. Diane Nelson? I don’t know. I’ve never read the Red Hood so yeah, maybe it should be PG-13. I did not have much problem with the rating on New Frontier either. But the Wonder Woman and Green Lantern flicks? Just to make them PG-13 for the sake of making them PG-13? I don’t get it. I’ve not seen the WW movie but the GL movie is not an adult movie. If you take out the pointless stuff that makes it PG-13 it’s on about the same level as Ben 10 or Last Airbender or the GI Joe cartoons I watched when I was a kid. Fine for kids.
June 24th, 2010 at 11:52 am
@Shannon
Fair enough, and I’m sorry I assumed you weren’t a regular (when you’ve been reading Newsarama longer than I have).
I really hope that WB Animation does release something that you can enjoy with your children. While not a DVD release, there is the new Young Justice cartoon that will be coming to CN sometime soon. That might be something to watch with your kids. Blue Beetle is supposedly getting a live-action show at some point too, so there are some kid-friendly projects on the horizon.
June 24th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
@Shannon
There’s really nothing in the movie itself that screams PG-13 either. At all. It seemed no different in content from the Justice League animated series on Cartoon Network, only with a slightly different animation style and obviously Hal as GL. What was so objectionable about it?
When did PG-13 become as bad as an R-rating? This is really new territory for me, as I’ve never in my life heard a complaint about PG-13.
June 24th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Devil_Hanzo Says: ” I said ‘a regular,’ I meant both a Newsarama regular and a regular reader of comics. If he (as we just found out) was aware of the source material this particular movie is based on, then he would understand why this is rated PG-13.”
I knew what you meant, and I didn’t mean to imply there was anything negative in what you said. I just used it to make a point about how a lot of potential new readers are introduced to these characters through the movies and cartoons, only to be chased off when it comes to the comics because the stories are so convoluted when it comes to multiple versions of each character, constantly changing histories, and never-ending crossovers. Heck, I’ve been a “regular” comics fan for over 30 years, and even I don’t understand half of this stuff!
I agree that not EVERY comic-related project has to be G or PG. Obviously WATCHMEN needed to be rated R. Although I’ve never read RED HOOD, it sounds like that wouldn’t work as a G or PG rated movie either. But, on the other hand, I don’t think GREEN LANTERN needed to have foul language or blood just to get a PG-13 rating when it easily could have been PG. But there’s nothing inherently wrong with a PG-13 BATMAN animated movie. I don’t have a personal problem with it, but at the same time, I can sympathize with parents and kids who put off by this. There’s actually a porno film based on the Adam West TV Series now, although I doubt kids will be seeing it on Cartoon Network or at Wal-Mart.
Also, while your comment about “blaming Bruce Timm” was probably not directed at me, I just want to add that I am a huge Bruce Timm fan and have nothing but respect and admiration for his work.
June 24th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@Cameron B
Good point. I also think the rating system is a bit of a sliding scale. What would be PG back in the day is PG-13 now.
June 24th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@DannyD
No harm no foul — this has been a very interesting conversation.
You’re probably right about the Green Lantern feature. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it, but if the swear words were the only reason it got the PG-13 rating, then they should have cut it.
If you can make a G or PG feature without sacrificing the story, then by all means, they should do that. If you can turn a PG movie into a PG-13 feature by adding some un-needed blood and some crass language, they certainly should NOT do so.
I guess my initial protest was to those saying that Batman is a children’s character. Batman is very versatile. He can be both serious and campy — he is both the Dark Knight and the Caped Crusader. We all know this. I can understand why some parents are disappointed but there are many of us that will thoroughly enjoy this PG-13 Batman film.
And DannyD, you’re right, I wasn’t directing the “Blaming Timm” comment at you, I just got lazy and stopped directing the rest of my post. Everyone who knows of Bruce Timm, loves what the name has done for Batman and the other characters of the DCUO. While I glad that he’s working on these feature films, I really wish they’d jut bring JLU back.
June 24th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Batman is a children’s character. Wonder Woman is a children’s character. The Justice League are children’s characters. Stop making these things PG-13. Also take notice to the fact that the sales of these things have been disappointing. Maybe that’s because they have isolated a large part of the audience. And c’mon. I’ve seen these things. There is no reason for them to be PG-13. They just throw in one or two slightly dirty words and some blood to pander to fanboys. They are not aiming at a slightly older audience. They are pandering to fanboys. Those movies are not adult. They are freaking super hero movies. C’mon!
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Well said. I agree with every single thing you said.
I would also like to add that it’s the idiotic decision to pander to and target existing older teen and adult comic book fans (and the very rare and near mythical NEW older teen/adult comic book fan) why the comic book industry is currently in such
terrible shape.
June 24th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Thanks for your opinion. Of course, not everyone would share your thoughts. Some comic books are specifically for kids, some specifically for adults, and many have some age range in mind. It can be the same way for animated movies.
dan j
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True, however like Sesame Street,Raggedy Ann and Andy,G.I. JOE, and Transformers, Batman (and all of the other DCU and Marvel Universe superhero characters) were created for and aimed/marketed at kids/all ages.
June 24th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Shannon, you answered your own question of why there diminishing returns. It will be shown on cartoon network, so why buy the dvd? Plus a percentage of comic readers are digital pirates so, why buy it when you can get it for free. Also, those other titles haven’t been adaptations, this is. So watering it down WOULD effect the story. Would you have watered down Watchmen? AAfter all those characters were based off children’s characters so by your logic it should have been a G film, not a R rated one. If they want to put out a pg13 product it is their right to put a pg13 product. As noted their are serveral g and pg batman animations so we can have our cake and eat it too.
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While the WATCHMEN characters were based off of the Charlton characters, they were NOT the actual charlton characters. And based on the under performance of the WATCHMEN movie at the box office, maybe they should have “watered down” the movie.
June 24th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
First of all in regards to Shannon’s comment if Superman Batman and the JLA are all “childrens characters” why are the people buying the comics all in their mid 20s early 30
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Because the over whelming majority of them started reading and collecting these comics when they were young kids and can’t give up their superhero addiction.
June 24th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
So it’s the content, not the price of the books actually aimed at kids is the problem? Give me a break.
To blame the content more than the pricing point is very laughable. Maybe numbers would be up if books marketed at the younger crowd were cheaper than they are. They are not. And there’s great stuff out there like the Disney books, Tiny Titans, the Marvel all ages stuff. It should be priced lower for the younger crowd. 2.50 is still to much for a kid. Maybe 1.99 would work better. But you lower the price points for the kids’ books, growth will be seen around the board as those kids grow into the main line.
When did everyone get so bent out of shape over the PG-13 rating? Really, is it that bad. Is it that harmful to a kid. The way some people are talking, such a rating is tantamount to an R rating.
I’m willing to bet that there are a ton of us who read these threads, maybe even some who’ve spoken out against a PG-13 Batman, who saw movies of the same rating when they were below that age. I know I saw Burton’s PG-13 Batman when I was seven, as did many others with no ill effect. And it was my parent’s decision to let me see the movie, just as it was another parent’s decision not to let their kid see it. And back then i think there were less options for anything but the dreaded and fearful to kiddies PG-13 then there are now. Now is a much better time for the very young crowd to get into super heroes, there are so many options.
The characters are for everyone, and they can be made to tailor to everyone. They are not just for kids. They are not just for adults. They are for everyone, and it really saddens me that any one group of people wants to claim them as theirs and theirs alone.
ANd something to think about:
Yes, Batman and other heroes were of course created in their beginnings to aimed at kids. But really, have you looked at the content aimed at kids back then? Hell, Robin carried a .45 for a while. Batman let a guy roast alive only for him to return with the face of a burn victim. The first Clayface was a human serial killer. In Superman in the beginning you got depictions of domestic violence. Now I am not for one second saying that those books were aimed at adults. Not at all. But it does make you think, if the kids that read those books for the most part grew up fine, then why are people freaking out now, over a PG-13 rating of all things?
June 25th, 2010 at 12:39 am
Cameron,
You don’t have kids do you?
Seriously these animated films DO add in pointless adult content. Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, even Public Enemies, could have been good family fare with a couple cut words of dialogue and pointlessly grotesque scenes thrown out. But the animators were told they were PG13 and had to make them so. It’s idiotic, and it doesn’t pander to the larger audience for these films.
And let’s be honest here, animation is STILL largely a kid’s market. Some shows have broken in to this thanks to a large appeal to a teen or twenty-something market, but they sure as heck aren’t superhero movies. It’s a mistake by DC.
Now, if someone could explain to me why Marvel’s Dr. Strange and Iron Man animated films are PG-13, it would be appreciated.
June 25th, 2010 at 2:29 am
No, I don’t. But once again, I was shown PG-13 fare as a kid. Batman, 1989, 7 years old. With a bunch of other kids in the theater. It was one of many. And as far as Batman and other such things go, it was really one of the few available options, unlike now where there’s a bunch.
So I have no clue why PG-13 is a big deal. At all. because I’ve never, EVER seen it treated as a big deal before all this. My friends who are parents are similar. So such a discussion, treating PG-13 like it’s insanely harmful to kids is, to put it simply, mystifying. Hell, a friend of mine recently took her five year old to see Iron Man 2, PG-13. Because it’s what’s right for her, she doesn’t see the issue.
And in truth there is no issue. Unlike when i was growing up, there is plenty of all ages fair if for some reason, you feel as though PG-13 is just as bad as an R rating, that it’s inappropriate for your kid. No one forces anyone to watch it. IN fact, several options are present. From the aforementioned many times Batman: The Brave & The Bold to Super-Hero. There are even DVD options like the old Super Friends show and such. There’s something out there for everyone of every tolerance level.
So no, I don’t understand the argument at all, as parent seemingly have it much better now as opposed to then, with several alternatives and other options.
ANd what are the grotesque scenes in Public Enemies, because like GL: First Flight, I saw nothing that really could not have been shown on the Justice League show.
Do I have kids? No. But I was raised on PG-13 stuff. It was a parenting choice my own made. So the very idea of it somehow being a problem to others is very alien to me, as I’ve never, ever run into it with any of my friends’ parents growing up or the friends who are parents now.. It comes off as the same over the top worries about every other form of entertainment. Via my own experiences growing up and not having been scarred for life because I saw The Joker murder a museum full of people via asphyxiation and later fall to his death, I think my opinion is as valid as anyone’s.
Raise your own kids however you want to. Parents today have many, many an option. There’s super hero stuff for everyone. Everyone can join in the fun. Everyone can pick and choose what they like, more choices than ever. And considering that, the hubbub over PG-13 super-heroes gets even more confusing, as there’s stuff that’s tamer out there as well.
There’s stuff for everyone, so why can’t everyone just chill and enjoy what we have? Take your pick of what suits you best, sit back, relax and enjoy.
June 25th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Yeah. Nick makes a good point that Marvel is guilty of this also. The only difference between Marvel and DC on this is that with the DC stuff you have the Cartoon Network airing as part of the standard lifecycle of the movie. When Marvel adapted the Ultimates stuff to a cartoon, I thought it made sense to be PG-13. Those comics were pretty brutal. Just like I thought New Frontier made sense to be PG-13. (Although the actual movie could have easily been PG if they had just cut away in one shot. You know the one.) But for Iron Man and Dr. Strange to be PG-13, I did not see the point. Well, I could see Dr. Strange maybe if you wanted to push the horror elements. But Iron Man?
PG-13 has become the standard. All of your summer movies are PG-13. I guess it’s been heading in that direction since Temple of Doom back in the 80′s. The Harry Potter films (also Warner) are PG-13 and they are based on intermediate reader books. They are children’s books. Not young adult. Children’s books.
So, I get it. I get that someone thinks these things make more money as PG-13 but that still does not make it right. And again, I don’t have any problem with PG-13 films. I say make the best movie you can and then let the rating fall where it may. Again, my problem is with forcing these things to be a certain rating just for the marketing and to put the PG-13 on the package. But my opinion does not matter. What matters is my dollars. And my dollars won’t buy a Wonder Woman DVD that has pointless adult language and blood just to get a PG-13 rating. And the sad thing is, I really want to give Warner my money. Oh well, Mattel and Disney will get those dollars.
June 25th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
ANd what are the grotesque scenes in Public Enemies, because like GL: First Flight, I saw nothing that really could not have been shown on the Justice League show.
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I can’t recall ff hand any grotesque scenes in PUBLIC ENEMIES, but GL:FIRST FLIGHT definitely had a couple of grotesque bloody scenes in it. For example, a corrupt female GL got stabbed through her gut by a peace of metal in a very graphic and bloody scene. There was also another scene where Sinestro killed a guy and blood splattered all over the floor. Scenes like that were NEVER shown on the JL/JLU animated series.
June 26th, 2010 at 8:13 am
I want my superhero movies pg-13 to R. Breeders do NOT run the world and don’t get to censor things. Nobody cares about your dumb kids. The world is too full of people anyway. If anything there should be less and less catered to rugrats to encourage people to stop having them. Instead of being worried that your precious loin droppings might hear a curse word you should be worried about the fact that by the time they grow up there won’t be any jobs left. Stop having kids. We have enough people already.
June 26th, 2010 at 8:16 am
…and Batman is an obsessed vigilante driven by the cold blooded murder of his parents who were gunned down before his very eyes when he was only 6 years old. He deals with murderers, rapists, drug dealers and human traffickers.
This is NOT a children’s character, you fool.
June 26th, 2010 at 8:42 am
Though Shannon has a point of wanting to protect his kids from questionable content, there are other people who would go further into censoring. There are still a lot of people who think comic books should be only for kids, and I bet a lot of them weren’t happy with the stuff in the R-rated “Watchmen” film (I love the 215-minutes cut).
June 26th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
As a father I cant help but find all this talk of ratings as complete nonsense. To the other parents I ask what world do you think you are raising children in? You’re worried about them showing blood in a film that at its core glorifies and promotes violence. Is it less vulgar to hide the reality of what violence is or to expose it? Even at the Brave and the Bold level, you’re leaving your kids to learn values from a guy that spends the majority of his screen time beating people up. Its idealistic and incredibly naive to think you’re protecting your children from anything by hiding them from what you arbitrarily disapprove of. I’m sure once you look back to your childhood you’ll remember it didn’t work on you, and it aint going to work on your kids.
I suggest that you instead quit bitching about niche films that are admittedly aimed at these character’s pre-existing fan base and make a more thorough attempt to communicate and educate your own damn kids instead of expecting a dvd collection or a television to do it for you.
June 26th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Haven’t been keeping up with the DC animated films but I was a big fan of DCAU up until JLU ended in 2006.
A new kind of connected universe would be nice to see. The lone adaptations of Batman (Under the Red Hood, rumored Year One film, etc) while nice get kind of tiresome since they are just one and done. You’d like to see a sequel but storytelling with movies is extremely limited since its 2 hours vs. a comic book or animated series which is 26 issues (not very true of most new monthly series these days..) or 26 episodes (ditto but there are exceptions).
They’d have to start from scratch since the recent features all seem to work in isolated stories/universes. I highly doubt there are building blocks for Crisis on 2 Earths since it was adapted from an older story and took so long to finish. Superman/Batman might be possible. Personally, I’d like to see a Batman Beyond sequel after the news of them tying DCAU into regular DC “continuity”/whatever that qualifies as these days.
June 26th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
All I have to say is: If comics are for kids, then why is Dr. Light a rapist? Why is Black Hand a necrophiliac?
June 27th, 2010 at 10:26 am
All I have to say is: If comics are for kids, then why is Dr. Light a rapist? Why is Black Hand a necrophiliac?
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Before the industry became dominated by fans turned pro, most (if not all) Marvel and DC superhero comics were for kids/all ages. Remember, Dr. Light wasn’t ORIGINALLY a rapist and Black Hand wasn’t a necrophiliac. That is all fanboy turned pro crap.
June 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Batman is a children’s chracter. He dresses up like a bat. You can place him in a mature story but he’s still a kid’s character. Folks that think he’s an adult character may have The Dark Knight on their side but I’ve got 71 years of history on my side.
Comics don’t have to be for kids or adults though. It’s just a medium. Tell what ever kind of story you want. But when you use other people’s characters, legacy characters or whatever you want to call them- as in, when you are Marvel and DC- you are the custodians of characters with a heritage that goes back generations now. That should we worth more than the alleged cash you might get by pushing for a PG-13 rating. But that’s just me. Everyone should be able to tell the story they want and let the rating fall where it may. I just don’t think it’s right (and apparently not very profitable) to have a blanket rating for these things. It’s putting the cart before the horse.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Shannon, you’ve got Brave and the Bold, you’ve got Super Hero Squad? WHAT MORE do you want? Kids arent like Fan boys in their 20s/30s that demand 10 different spin offs and special editions and tons of sequals for movies they love. If anything, the past 15 years has been all about kiddiefying our favourite comic characters on television.
It’s about time American Animation grew up.
June 30th, 2010 at 7:59 am
What more do I want? A Wonder Woman cartoon that a girl could watch would be a start.
July 17th, 2010 at 8:52 am
The fact is that I have just seen the movie and the unrealistic unbloody violence just spoil me everything! Worse of all, blood appears and disappears on Robin in the opening sequence. The floor is full of blood but the boy is perfectly clean! Even after the explosion : no one drop of blood. It’s RIDICULOUS.
I’am a huge fan of Bruce Timm and its team, but this time it’s RIDICULOUS. This kind of movie need to go beyond PG-13 rating.
So bad because the movie is really awesome.
Enough of bullshits, we want separate releases for this DCUAOM collection. PG-13 and uncut ones. An uncut version of Under the Red Hood need to be release, please.
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