I was pretty surprised to hear that Ryan “The Atom” Choi was apparently killed off during violent fight with Deathstroke the Terminator and a gang of supervillains in May 12’s Titans: Villains For Hire Special #1, by Eric Wallace and Fabrizio Fiorentino.
The special was a kick-off to a new direction for the troubled Titans ongoing series, in which the sometimes Titans villain Deathstroke would be the new star.
Now there’s nothing all that shocking about a super-character getting killed off at the beginning of a new story or series, particularly at DC. It’s happened so often throughout the course of the last decade that, as I’ve mentioned here and elsewhere before, I’ve begun to suspect the process is some sort of profane pagan ritual, in which DC staffers offer the imaginary blood of fictional characters to an extra-dimensional deity they believe in and worship, in exchange for its blessings in the form of monthly sales in excess of 40,000 units a month.
The Outsiders/Teen Titans relaunches began with the deaths of Donna Troy and Omen, Identity Crisis began with the death of Sue Dibny, the build-up to Infinite Crisis with the death of Blue Beetle, Infinite Crisis itself with the death of The Freedom Fighters (and a good dozen more before it was all over), Final Crisis with the deaths of Martian Manhunter and all of the New Gods, Titans with the deaths of the new “Titans East” team, Blackest Night with the death of Hawkman and Hawkgirl, the new volume of Green Arrow with the death of Lian Harper in Cry For Justice, and on and on.
But Ryan Choi being killed off at the beginning of a new direction of Titans came as a big surprise—of the “Oh God, are they still doing this?” variety, not the “OMG, I can’t wait to see what happens next!” variety—and not simply because he’s a character that’s never had anything to do with the Titans or Deathstroke before.
Why was it so surprising? Let me count the ways.
First, the comic in which Ryan Choi was killed was one of the first comics of DC’s “Brightest Day” effort, presented as the lighter, brighter dawn after all the dark, violent comics about heart-eating, friend-taunting reanimated corpses in Blackest Night.
That series, the central conflict of which revolved around the death and resurrection of super-characters in the DCU, ended with two characters standing in a grave yard talking about what it all means, with one of them literally quoting Joe Quesada from old Newsarama interviews.
“Do you think without Nekron pulling the strings, the resurrections are over?” Barry Allen asked Hal Jordan, and Jordan replied, “I think Dead is dead from here on out–”
One would be forgiven for expecting at least a month or two to pass before went right back to that particular well.
Second, when The Atom appeared in the current Batman cartoon, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, the version they used was thew newer Ryan Choi version of The Atom, not the Silver Age Ray Palmer version.
It’s easy to see why the show’s producers might have opted for Choi over Palmer, as doing so added some diversity to the superheroes Batman was teaming up with, and I assumed Choi’s presence on the show presaged his continued existence in the comics.
The comics aren’t exactly beholden to the media adaptations, of course, but the comics have changed in the past to reflect what was going on in the cartoons. In 2003, Green Lantern Kyle Rayner left the JLA comic to be replaced by John Stewart to reflect the line-up of the Justice League cartoon, for example, and when Young Justice was canceled and replaced with a new volume of Teen Titans, the line-up was a DCU version of the one on the Teen Titans cartoon.
With DC recently becoming DC Entertainment and a big deal being made of how the company was being reorganized and streamlined to better exploit their characters throughout various media, it wasn’t unreasonable to expect Choi to stick around a bit—at least until The Brave and The Bold ceased production, anyway.
But thirdly, and most importantly, Ryan Choi wasn’t exactly an underused character who had been gathering dust in character limbo for years.
He was created only a few years ago, and the book he starred in was in conception something of a collaboration between Grant Morrison, DC’s second most popular writer, and Gail Simone. While Simone was the first writer on the title and had said in interviews it contained many elements from an non-Atom-specific pitch she had made to DC, it was one of a few comics from the period that featured a credit reading “Based on ideas and concepts developed by Grant Morrison.”
That’s a pretty good pedigree for a character, and you don’t see DC offing many other Morrison co-recreations, even other redundant ones with lower Q-ratings, like The Shining Knight or Manhattan Guardian.
And the new character was certainly pretty well promoted for a time. He first appeared in 2006 one-shot, DCU: Brave New World, an eighty-page, $1 book featuring six short stories, each of which lead into a new miniseries or ongoing, plus a few pages offering the first teases of Countdown.
If the book’s huge-page-count-for-ridiculously-cheap-price format wasn’t push enough, DC sold it as a sort of companion to the similar DC Countdown, the 2005 book that kicked off the Infinite Crisis event cycle. Brave New World was the start of the next big thing.
The Atom story was an eleven-pager by Simone and the art team of John Byrne and Trevor Scott, and it was the only character/concept being primed for an ongoing. The rest of those featured in the book received miniseries (Uncle Sam and The Freedom Fighters, OMAC, Martian Manhunter, The Marvel Family and The Creeper. Of those, The Freedom Fighters were the most successful, getting a second miniseries before disappearing).
The All-New Atom lasted 25 issues before ultimately getting the axe. That’s obviously not very long, but its certainly respectable for a new super-comic from the second half of the decade.
In that time, the book had two different writers—Gail Simone for #1-#20 and Rick Remender for #21-#25. The art wasn’t anywhere near that consistent, with six different pencil artists in that time: John Byrne, Eddy Barrows, Mike Norton, Andy Smith, Jerry Ordway and Pat Olliffe.
Each of those artists have very different styles, and their work wasn’t contributed in a terribly consistent fashion. For example, Byrne drew the first half of the first story arc, and Barrow finished it. Norton came on for a few issues, then Barrows returned, than Norton returned.
The result was that the book—its hero, its cast, its setting—never developed a consistent look. That may not be all that important for mediocre superhero comics once they’re up and running (Superman, Batman, X-Men or Spider-Man comics, for example, could switch artists every issue and would probably sell no worse than they do with regular creative teams), but can be deadly on a new character and concept.
If I were asked to diagnose the major problem with Ryan Choi and The All-New Atom, it was that—despite the effort DC put into promoting it with a splashy debut in Brave New World and, later, Countdown tie-ins, the book looked rushed, slapdash and unimportant. It wasn’t anyone’s baby, with the possible exception of Gail Simone’s…for a while, anyway.
And then, because it was cancelled once Ray “The Atom” Palmer returned to the DCU proper in Countdown, Choi was off-panel while Palmer was on. The new Atom became pretty irrelevant, especially with Geoff Johns and James Robinson using Palmer so prominently in Blackest Night and Justice League: Cry For Justice (although Robinson did flirt with having The Atoms team-up and hang out together in an early issue, the way all the Flashes and Arrows do).
That doesn’t mean they had to kill him off of course—it’s still silly to kill off a character, as live ones almost always have more potential than dead ones—but it’s not hard to see how Choi went from the list of characters deserving of their own series to the list of Characters That Can Be Killed Off For Cheap Attempt At Shock Value in a matter of a few years.
I’m not sure what the conventional wisdom will end up being, what the take away of the short career of Ryan “The Atom III” Choi will ultimately be, but I hope it’s not simply that people don’t like Chinese-American heroes, or legacy characters created after 1969, or funny/lighthearted superhero comics or new things.
Because whatever else you can say about The All-New Atom–and I can say a lot of negative things about it; at the end of the day it wasn’t a very good comic book—it was something new.
Simone took some risks with her writing, and many of them didn’t quite pay off, but it was one of the few American superhero comics that was written as a sitcom rather than a melodrama, with a large cast of supporting characters, a distinct (if not ever visually so) setting and both humor and drama derived from the characters’ interactions with one another and that setting.
I’m not going to miss the character Ryan Choi, and I can’t imagine anyone else is missing him—his title has been canceled for over a year and a half, so if anyone misses him, they’ve been missing him for a while already anyway.
But I’m probably going to remain confused by the decision to kill him for a while yet.
May 20th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Great article. Does an excellent job of laying out the problem’s and confusion surrounding DC Comics and decisions that are made with the characters.
I never followed the new Atom, with the exception of reading his Brave New World story, so his killing held little to no weight for me and really did seem like a bad decision.
I was interested in the idea of Deathstroke leading a group of villains for hire and would have bought the issue regardless. Why does it seem like the only plot point DC can come up with to make stories interesting (at least they think) is to kill a character?
May 20th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Good piece (though he’s the fourth Atom – Al Pratt, Ray Palmer, Adam Cray, Ryan Choi and the latter is from Hong Kong so isn’t Chinese American).
And I liked his book start to finish. I’ve no interest in Deathstroke the Terminably Boring and his villains.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Agreed.
This book was ugly. It seemed, if anything, a snuff film. Not only did it throw away the good will of the readers who were willing to give Ryan Choi a chance, but it has also poisoned the Tattooed Man and Osiris characters.
The giant spread for the “kill shot”? It turned my stomach.
I’ve had enough of this type of book.
This was “Identity Crisis”-type ugly. I had hoped that Geoff Johns would have a little better control over characterization, and would be more respectful to the fans.
Maybe this one slipped under his radar. I would hope so.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:12 am
They killed Ryan because DC hates asian characters.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am
If there’s a workaround for this death, I’d be glad to see it invoked. Gail’s work got me hooked as a reader on Ryan.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Steve-
I’m not sure that Johns wasn’t aware of this. His love for the Silver Age has brought back the likes of Hal Jordan and Barry Allen. And he is certainly not shy about brutally snuffing a character for undeserved drama and high stakes.
I honestly don’t understand the appeal of Ray Palmer. DC needs another old white guy with no personality? Who is Palmer’s supporting cast, besides his crazed ex wife who is dead? Who are his enemies? Seriously, what does he bring to the table.
Yeah, Ryan Choi brings diversity. But he is also one of the few characters who is not a martial artist just ebcause he’s Asian. He also is funny, has friends (and a talking head and a dog) and enemies. He also has a really sweet, complicated relationship with Giganta. And man, do I hope Giganta tears apart Deathstroke and company for this. But she won’t. Because it is clear the writer picked a name out of a hat and has no love or knowledge for the character they killed.
It’s not surprising that the only DC books I read are written by Simone.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:30 am
DC’s Anti-Asian agenda is clear here, along with the promotion of Jim Lee to Co-Publisher & the demoting of Wally West to Sub-Flash (his wife is Asian).
–J.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:41 am
I only read a handful of Ryan Choi stories but I have to say I thought the character was great. Ryan had a sense of humor and was incredibly humble and real. Panda was the greatest best-friend in comics. I always loved the concept of the Atom and Ryan Choi flying around on his bangstick fighting cowboys and monster germs was the best realization of the character yet. Do not RIP, Ryan Choi, rise up, RISE UP!
May 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am
“I’ve had enough of this type of book.”
So stop reading DC Comics.
“This was “Identity Crisis”-type ugly. I had hoped that Geoff Johns would have a little better control over characterization, and would be more respectful to the fans.”
Have you ever READ a Geoff Johns comic? Gore and dismemberment and death are his go-to tropes.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:44 am
I AM missing Ryan Choi. I enjoyed his character, and enjoyed the entire series to varying degrees.
I think this was redundantly pointless. ‘Ooo, look. Deathstroke is a brutal villain.’ Well, yeah. But, Osiris and Tattooed Man aren’t supposed to be, right? I’m sure there will be a reason Deathstroke did this for Dwarfstar, and it will be revealed in the story in the future, but I will not be sticking around to find out.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:21 am
He was killed because he was big enough to make an impact, but irrelvant enough for it not to matter.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:23 am
To answer Eric:
1) You say you don’t understand the appeal for Ray Palmer.
To me, Ray has been my favorite DC character ever since his return to the mainstream in POWER OF THE ATOM. Now, many can argue that “it sucked, it only lasted 18 issues!” but they’re aren’t quite grasping the big picture.
The series started out with Ray getting reacquainted with a DCU that passed him by while he was away in the Amazon.
We got to see through Ray’s (and Roger Stern’s) eyes a post-Crisis DCU that just dealt with LEGENDS, MILLENNIUM, and a
Justice League that’s now international. He was written as DC’s everyman, which made him my favorite character since I was getting back into comics at the time.
Ray is far more than just another “old white guy with no personality”. Roger Stern put a lot into shaping Ray into a believable character with complex emotions (I personally loved how he wrote Ray singing a Beatles tune to himself, much like Gardner Fox did in his original run).
Ray’s identity was now public and we witnessed the initial drawbacks of him being an easy target for his enemies and being hounded by the press everywhere he went. And there was the mystery of who fire bombed Ray’s village and how he overcame grief losing his true love, Princess Laethwen and her people.
It continued into the SUICIDE SQUAD giving it one of it’s biggest story arcs with the Mystery of the Atom storyline. Ray then next played into JLA: Destiny’s Hand and then there was a special for closure. All of those stories written by Roger Stern, Tom Peyer, John Ostrander, and Dan Jurgens were very well executed and were way ahead of their time.
The Ray got de-aged in ZERO HOUR. While not everyone’s favorite fan moment, I think Dan Jurgens told some great Atom stories during his TEEN TITANS run.
2) Supporting characters other than Jean?
Howabout Jean’s ex-husband, Paul Hoben? They split off-panel, but no one has ever explained why, or what lead up to their split. And this guy once had Ray’s extra belt and used it against him.
Norm Brawler. Ray’s best friend and co-author of the book that revealed his secret identity to the world. He looked up to Ray not only as a best friend, but a hero.
Enrichetta Negrini. She was Ray’s old student and now co-faculty at Ivy U. She also had a long unrequited crush on Ray. Norm made his feelings known to her, and it was assumed they might have started a relationship up while Ray was with the Squad and League before ATOM SPECIAL #1.
Professor Alpheus Hyatt. Ray’s mentor, who was shown in THE ALL-NEW ATOM series to now have Alzheimers. This guy created the Time Pool (which is being used in the current Robinson run of SUPERMAN.
Princess Laethwen and the Katarthans. Said to be dead, but we haven’t seen her body. And in Gail’s run, it was shown that some of the Katarthans had survived the fire bombing by the CIA. Up till Metzler retconned Jean back into Ray’s life, Laethwen was Ray’s one, true love.
3) Villains? Well you might have me here, but Chronos has been shown to be Ray’s arch enemy. He went back in time, amassed a fortune and dedicated his life to learning everything he could about Ray Palmer to not only destroy him, but make him suffer in the process. Is that’s not an arch nemesis…
And other writers have sort of picked up the ball with Chronos. Tom Peyer played with the time stream with both Chronos’. Rick Remender had a great storyline going in not just his Atom run, but in Booster as well with Lady Chronos.
Jason Woodrue. Although he might be associated as a Swamp Thing villain of ex-New Guardian, if you go back to his roots (ouch) he’s a serious and more than formidable threat for Ray.
Sting. Not the most original of names, but much better than the Bug-Eyed Bandit. I’m glad to see him used to by Gail in Secret Six, even if he mostly stuck in the background. His update on Larvan’s gimmick using robot bees proved to be much messier
fights with Ray.
Humbug. My personal favorite because he has so much potential. If you’re a T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents fan – think an evil version of No-Man.
Ray had quite a colorful set up – new powers, new costume, great supporting cast. THAT is what shaped him into being an interesting character and put him back on the map in the DCU.
The problem was he was used sparingly post-Zero Hour and other writers chose not to utilize the groundwork laid out by Roger Stern and Tom Peyer. Actually, I think Geoff is the only writer to remember and use Ray’s ability to make himself as dense as a white dwarf star for a split second.
Ray Palmer has a lot of potential. I liked Ryan too, but his death shouldn’t be an excuse to hate write off Ray Palmer.
********
What has me worried about the upcoming Atom run by Jeff Lemire?
Interviews in which is sites the original Gardner Fox run and SWORD OF THE ATOM as inspiration makes it sound like he’s completely ignoring everything that happened in between SotA and IDENTITY CRISIS. The August solicits with Ray’s father being alive (when he was shown to have died when Ray was a teen) almost confirms IMHO.
Also, Jeff has said that Ray has no arch enemy (See what I said about Chronos up above). As a diehard Ray Palmer fan, I wonder if this is going to follow the current trend DC has been doing – retconning, retrofitting, reimagining, and rebooting their characters. It seems like the current formula right now with all their characters is to tweak the silver age origins, and toss out everything that happened post-CotIE and IDENTITY CRISIS, cherry picking only what’s necessary to keep as canon.
I really hope I’m wrong, but DC as of late hasn’t inspired much hope.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Is Head still alive? Will he not seek vengeance or death?!?
May 20th, 2010 at 11:43 am
I gave this a chance being a long time reader of this book and J.T. Krul’s run on Teen Titans with that story but it was brutal in many ways and I will not be picking up another issue of the book EVER!
May 20th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Huh? If “it’s not hard to see how Choi went from … to the list of Characters That Can Be Killed Off For Cheap Attempt At Shock Value”, then how can his death be “a big surprise”?
Also, the first argument for why his death is surprising makes no sense. There is nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about saying “Dead is now dead” and killing off a character. The only inconsistency would be in _bringing him back_.
I enjoyed The All-New Atom and am sorry they killed Choi. I certainly won’t be buying the Deathstroke title.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:52 am
I was looking forward to this Titans series, since I wanted to see where Osiris was going. But I loved Ryan Choi (who was a martial artist, BTW, he just didn’t use it that often), and hate the pointless death craze, so there goes any chance of me reading this.
May 20th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
I’ve already discussed this pointless and stupid death way more than I care to. So to sum up:
I hate comics like what Titans has become.
I will not buy comics like this.
DC, you shouldn’t have killed Ryan.
May 20th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Shame on you Dan, Geoff, and Eric.
May 20th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
“Oh God, are they still doing this?”
That’s a really good way to put it. ‘Shocking’ deaths aren’t ‘shocking’ if you’re expecting them.
Heck, DC is going to have to start putting ‘This issue…a hero lives!’ on the cover of their x-overs and relaunches to shock people.
Plus, this book doesn’t even make sense. Why does it exist with ‘Secret Six’ out there?
Not to mention, it’s obviously a laast misute decision to do this because well into late last year, Dido was still telling Wally West fans he’d be in (amoungst other places) ‘The Titans’ book, so obvioulsy it was intended to stay a book about the graduated ‘Teen’ heroes.
This is just another example of what seems like Didio changing his mind on a whim.
Like Chuck Dixon complaned about.
Like has left Outsiders re-launched and re-launched several times into several different direction with no time to for the changes of one re-launch to set in.
The kind of thing that gave us the out of nowhere marriage of Green Arrow and Black Canary after 10 years character growth in the other direction, the cancelation of both their moderately good selling books to put them into one big flop, and now Arsenal is back to Asenal from being Red Arrow for five minutes, Lain is dead, and now had him LIVIN IN A FORREST.
Plus, anyone remember the Bart as the Flash fiasco he tried to convince us was planned form the beginning to bring back Barry?
The only thing this man does right is when he doesn’t stand in the way of Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns.
May 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Sorry about the typos above. I have my son on my lap
May 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I’m so bored with the ‘new’ DC which is really the old, boring, pre-Crisis DC. Barry Allen and Ray Palmer are boring. Death stories in the DJ universe are cliche, just like Goeff Johns ‘continuity changing’ events.
DC isn’t racist, but there’s certainly enough evidence to make someone think that. Firestorm is now white, run by Ronnie who is white, with Jason, black, now in the background. Hawkgirl Kendra, latino, is dead, replaced with a caucasian.
Then there’s how they treat their middle eastern characters like Black Adam and Osiris, who commit acts of extreme violence and murder innocents as a justification for doing good.
Asians just get the worst of it. Wally’s son, who looks more Asian, is without powers ( i think) but his white sister isn’t. The half Asian Batgirl has been replaced by someone who’s blond and blue eyed. Liam Harper, half Asian, is dead. Kyle Rayner, half Asian, has been replaced by Hal Jordan.
It goes on and on.
I wonder. With Marvel’s books clearly catering to a liberal audience, is DC is trying to cater to conservatives? Just a thought.
The real tragedy here is that DC books are just boring now. They replaced all their interesting characters with a bunch of old white guys.And I’m tired of reading about all old white guys, even if I am one.
May 20th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Who says he is dead? It was a last page shot. Could he still be alive. Many heroes have survived a sword through the chest.
May 20th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
In regards to this:
“…the build-up to Infinite Crisis with the death of Blue Beetle, Infinite Crisis itself with the death of The Freedom Fighters (and a good dozen more before it was all over)…”
The total death tally for established characters in all crossovers and related tie-ins as well as the miniseries itself is more like four or five dozen.
May 20th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Oh, also, didn’t most of Titans East actually survive that pointless attack, save for Power Boy? I believe that was mentioned briefly off-panel, without actually showing that resolution (even though that story supposedly led into the regular Titans series…)
May 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
But Ryan’s not dead! http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=322341
May 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Yeah, it’s funny, but thanks a lot for getting my hopes up there, Tom.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Count me in as a Ryan Choi fan. And I thought his demise was really poorly done.
To be clear, I think it’s perfectly within “comic logic” that Ryan could be killed off. I just find how it’s done as being haphazard.
This is a great chinese or 1st gen chinese-american super-hero that was well-developed and had some potential for growth. I love Ray Palmer, but we are certainly capable of loving two guys who have the same name and power right?
Gail Simone tweeted recently that she doesn’t think Ryan was killed of because he’s Asian. I find that naive. I think internalized racism continues to exist in our world and I think precisely because one aspect of this specific character was that he happens to be ethnically Asian, that he was somehow deemed unlikely to become popular with fans. And therefore deemed “killable.”
Again, I get that heroes (real or fictional) will die. And of course, this is just a comic book. But stories have to serve a purpose. They have to resonate and make sense. So far? This strikes me as poorly executed and rather than make me angry, it just makes me question the talent pool at DC Universe. You guys can do better! This was a terrible story and the killing of a burgeoning Asian/Asian-American super-hero made it all the worse.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Tom – Nice, very nice.
First, I’m confused. Why kill a character nobody cares about?
Second, I’m confused. Why kill a character with significant potential?
Third, I’m annoyed. Tattooed Man was one of the few coherent bits of Final Crisis. I was hoping to see him in JLA or another similar team. His path to redemption would have made for strong characters. He is a unique character and had incredible potential to be a breakout character. Instead, he’s part of this crap?
Fourth, I’m confused. Titans was bad before, but why is this supposed to be better?
May 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
One of these days I would really like to be in a position to challenge people like Dan Didio and Geoff Johns. Nothing mean or nasty, just something to make them -work- for a living. The challenge would be this: Since you now say that dead is dead, by all means go ahead and kill whoever you want in the comics … as long as you start with Courtney ‘Stargirl’ Whitmore, and she doesn’t come back -ever-. We all know what Courtney means to Geoff Johns, she’s one of those special characters near and dear to a creator’s heart. If you guys want to keep on killing on the cheap, go right ahead but the next one’s one of yours OR show some real creativity and deliver the goods without the body count.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
What is up with this argument?:
“Plus, this book doesn’t even make sense. Why does it exist with ‘Secret Six’ out there?”
Gee, I don’t know why are there so many Avengers books out there if there only needs to be one? Why is there so many hero team books out there? So you think a new Suicide Squad should never happen because there is a Secret Six title on the stands?
I liked the issue. The villains won. Instead of losing for the hundredth time.
As for Deathstroke taking the Titans name? So be it. Should he have have asked Nightwing first? No.
This comic read better than any of Winnick’s Titans issues.
And did the author of this even bother to actually read the comic? Brightest Day to you meant the new happy go lucky DC where no one gets hurt? Boring.
Also Ryan will be back in a few years anyway. Its comics people. You don’t make money off a character staying dead.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Ray Palmer is the Atom, as far as I’m concerned, but I prefer him in “The Sword of the Atom,” myself.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Let me guess he’ll come back later during Brightest Day. Ryan Choi. LIVE.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Let me guess he’ll come back later during Brightest Day.
Ryan Choi – LIVE.
May 20th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
I’m not really all that surprised. I just expected the Johns’ Brightest Day to be death and dismemberment as usual, just with all the other heroes talking about how great it is to have their white friends back.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
I’m usually an avid fan of about 90% of whatever DC does, but this is one of those times where I felt like this wasn’t really a good idea.
Choi shouldn’t have been a character that they killed. Seeing as how this is tied intrinsically to Brightest Day, I’m hoping:
A) There better be some ramifications from this, especially coming from Ray Palmer, and
B) This is one of those times that I’m hoping they invoke a work-around… Since this is Brightest Day, and certain people are wearing white rings, perhaps he can be brought back?
May 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Dude i read a part of your blog and a soon as you got the FACTS wrong i was done. Brightest Day is not about the “lighter, brighter dawn after all the dark, violent comics about heart-eating, friend-taunting reanimated corpses in Blackest Night.” Its about second chances, its about why these characters were chosen for this second chance, its still a very gritty storyline as seen in brightest day #1 when aquaman summoned a zombie shark to eat someone, yeah thats lighter allright. how did they even publish your article, if you got paid you need to give them their money back.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I was curious about the Titans reboot, so I picked it up and I am flabbergasted that DC thinks that first issue would make anyone want to continue reading.
There are lots of movies about crooks, or even comics about villains, where the writers understand that the audience has to somehow identify with the protagonists even if they do awful, unforgivable things. You have to feel invested in the characters and care about what happens to them, or why bother sticking around?
Eric Wallace did ZERO in this story to make me want to read more about Deathstroke and the others. Quite the opposite, he made them so repellant I couldn’t wait to put the book back on the shelf. That is not how you sell comic books.
Everyone else can debate the merits of whether or not Atom should have been killed, but the real sin committed by DC is putting out an unmarketable, unreadable comic book.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I am a fan of Ryan Choi. I am going to miss him. I don’t care if this book was “something new”, it was a piece of crap. Ryan’s death aside it was a horrible book that I wont be picking up.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I’m usually an avid fan of about 90% of whatever DC does, but this is one of those times where I felt like this wasn’t really a good idea.
Choi shouldn’t have been a character that they killed. Seeing as how this is tied intrinsically to Brightest Day, I’m hoping:
A) There better be some ramifications from this, especially coming from Ray Palmer, and
B) This is one of those times that I’m hoping they invoke a work-around… Since this is Brightest Day, and certain people are wearing white rings, perhaps he can be brought back?
I will say, that I did enjoy the Titans book, and will be looking forward to reading it, despite Choi’s death.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
I like Geoff Johns’ stories (though I have my problems with his writing), I don’t have a problem with characters getting killed, and probably since Identity Crisis, I’ve liked Ray Palmer. That said, I’m not a fan of the older, classic characters taking the place of newer ones but not too long ago, DC was doing a good job of making room for both.
Despite all of this, I was surprised by this and agree that it was a bad decision. I can’t say that I was a fan of the character, not really having read a whole lot with him, but I’m a fan of new characters just on principle because I enjoy seeing new characters become popular. From everyone else’s comments, Ryan Choi had his positives and I would’ve liked to see him stick around and be utilized better just for the sake of diversity. So yeah, it’s a shame he’s gone and I think it’s fair to say that I’ll miss him.
Lastly, is DC racist for doing this? Probably not (as in 99% sure). It sure doesn’t help build a more diverse pantheon of characters though.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Just a question: Did all the Ryan Choi fans buy his book? I bought the first few, didn’t like it, so I stopped. I find a lot of folks really protest things done to characters they don’t really support. I’ve done it myself.
Also, bringing back the original characters to replace their “replacements” can’t be overlooked as the real reason for some of this, rather than racism, like with Firestorm and Green Lantern. I liked Ronnie Raymond, but I preferred Kyle Raynor as GL (with Stewart and Gardner).
Still, killing a character to start a series has been pretty repetitive. I almost didn’t keep buying JSA when they ** SPOILER FROM 10 YEARS AGO ** offed the Sandman in the first issue. But I’m glad I stayed with it as it became my favorite series, until recently.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
After reading the issue I couldn’t help but feel that the return of Birds of Prey was simply an attempted consolation for completely ripping up everything else that Gail Simone has done.
First, we all know Gail has been taken off the Wonder Woman book. We also have seen signs that JMS is going to do what almost every other Wonder Woman writer (outside of Gail) has done and scrap everything from the previous run to start over. I’m not going to argue that Gail’s run on WW was my favorite book ever. It certainly wasn’t in my top 3 favorite Gail Simone books, (though, All-New Atom definitely was). Still, given the history of writers having trouble getting Wonder Woman’s book rolling (for whatever reason), it wasn’t a bad run… and even beyond that, I think DC’s method of continuously scrapping and restarting Wonder Woman weakens the character a lot.
At the same time that they’re taking her off a book that she seemed to feel was her dream book they start this new direction for Titans. Before I even discuss Ryan Choi, let me just ask a broader question about the book: what is the premise? It seems like (so far) a group of villains have teamed up out of necessity or in seeking help. The team aren’t just normal villains though. Each has some sense of morality, it just doesn’t necessarily jive with the rest of the world’s view of right and wrong. Now… where have I heard this premise before? 5 or… ahem… 6… villains… in a group… kinda messed up sense of morality… nah, not like there could be another current DC title with that same premise (but without the “Brightest Day” tagline or “Titans” name recognition)… could there? I’ll give you six guesses which book I might be talking about….
And finally we get to Ryan Choi. He was a GREAT character. His book was one of my favorites. He added diversity, relatability, and fun to the DCU. I’m not someone who wants to go make a bigger deal out of something than it is… or to hold a grudge… (for example… Ted Kord was one of my favorite characters… and I still believe that the whole “his death was so important to the DCU” bit is nonsense… he didn’t get word out to anyone in the book… his final attempt to be a hero was a failure… it was a pointless death… but I LOVE Jamie as the Blue Beetle… I can like both) BUT this was just wasteful, pointless, overplayed, and pretty $@#^ed up (and no… not in a “man, that was GREAT… so @%#^ed up!” kind of way). If there isn’t a parade of heroes going after this new Titans group within an issue then it will be completely out of continuity given heroes reaction to other heroes being killed lately.
No, as someone who is usually rational and reasonable and “let’s see how it plays out” and “let’s let the past be the past” and all that… I can honestly say this is one book that I hope fails. For being a copy cat. For trying “shock value” in a way that’s been overplayed. For pointlessly killing off a character who was more interesting than the rest of the cast combined. I hope the book fails.
May 20th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
I don’t think the ultimate ramification of “Blackest Night” was supposed to be that “heroes won’t die anymore,” just that “once dead, heroes won’t come back to life anymore.”
May 20th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
“First, the comic in which Ryan Choi was killed was one of the first comics of DC’s “Brightest Day” effort, presented as the lighter, brighter dawn after all the dark, violent comics about heart-eating, friend-taunting reanimated corpses in Blackest Night.”
Brightest Day never claims to be “Lighter” that is the “heroic age” and that is Marvel.
May 20th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
I’ll also add that I think some of the other counterpoints are well taken. Yes, it is in large part about refocusing on the “classic” characters (even though… it’s not really those characters… just their names and likenesses… this Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, or Ray Palmer don’t act any more like the “originals” than Kyle Rayner or Ryan Choi acted like the originals… and their histories are completely changed… but I guess that’s another topic). No, Brightest Day never was said to be a “lighter, more up-beat DCU.” And yeah, the “getting back to the classics” is probably more the point than any racism, per say (although… it’s not impossible to question where DC’s commitment is to diversity based on other examples, or the lack thereof).
I would say, though… if you want to think of the subjects of diversity and race, DC should be trying to cultivate the diversity more than they are. Yes, most of the classic characters are white (or white-alien… or white-atlantian… or white-amazon). There isn’t much that can be done about that at this point since no one can go back to the 60s or 40s and tell the writers how awkward that is going to look in the long run. On the other hand, you can’t have “new classics” if you slaughter or demote every character with a chance to actually help change things moving forward. I’m not saying that Ryan was the solution to all this… but I mean, look what DC’s doing beyond that. They’re sitting high on having one big LGBT character in Batwoman. They just tossed out the most diverse JLA ever for the new lineup of white guy, white woman, white girl, white woman, white woman (whose skin is currently green), white guy (in golden gorilla body), and blue-skinned alien. They acquired one of the most diverse group of characters when they cut a deal with the Milestone creators but (aside from Static in Teen Titans) have instead decided to focus on the white whitey white white white Archie Comics characters (who even include a white guy as a Japanese superhero). When the white rings brought characters back to life, guess what characteristic they all shared outside of Martian Manhunter and Osiris?
So yeah, there probably isn’t a concerted effort to go in a racist direction at DC. There just doesn’t seem like there’s much of an effort to show diversity in their books.
May 20th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
The hero of any comic or movie should be a white man. That’s so the majority of American readers can identify with him. If it’s a black they’ll just say “Oh, it’s a black movie” unless it’s Will Smith or something. Same with Asians.
Blacks and Asians can be supporting characters, though. That’s why Green Lantern can be black in Justice League, but in his own book (and movie) he has to be white. In fact it’s a Hollywood rule that every movie has to have at least one black in it, or otherwise it’s considered racist. They just can’t be the main character.
So DC should turn its important characters back to white, and for diversity concentrate on the supporting cast, and the not-so-cool characters in team books. (Maybe Jimmy Olsen could be played by a black guy.)
May 20th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
I like Ryan Choi bought and read all of his series and liked it alot. But I have to say people are being dumb about this. This is a book about Deathstroke who is a paid assassin what did you think a book with him leading a team of villians was going to be about. With that said I have faith in the fact that there will be a reason Deathstroke did what he did and I will keep buying Titans to see where this goes.
Oh and what does a quote from Marvels editor have to do with Dc any way. It makes the writer of this article sound like he doesnt even know what company he is talking about.
May 20th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Now how many people has Deathstroke killed now? With Bludhaven it’s in the millions right? And he’s going to star in a book? When is DC going to have Hitler star in his own book?
May 20th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I think a more interesting idea might have been to take a minor hero that no one really cares about, or a whole new fledgling hero, write him in a way that makes him seem interesting — maybe show us “family” that we’ve never known about, give him a sense of humor — and then, whack him. You still get the “holy crap!”, and you get to keep around a character like Choi, who maybe they don’t know what to do with right now, but undoubtedly down the road, he’s got potential.
DC is a brand that thrives on multi-generations. Walking away from that with the Atom seems very short sighted.
May 20th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
I think a more interesting idea might have been to take a minor hero that no one really cares about, or a whole new fledgling hero, write him in a way that makes him seem interesting — maybe show us “family” that we’ve never known about, give him a sense of humor — and then, whack him. You still get the “holy crap!”, and you get to keep around a character like Choi, who maybe they don’t know what to do with right now, but undoubtedly down the road, given his story already, has potential.
I don’t write comics, and I don’t know the sort of pressures they’re under. But to me, DC is a brand that thrives on multi-generations. Walking away from that with the Atom seems very short sighted.
May 20th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Woofus’ post above has to be the most depressing thing I’ve read in years. I wish I could believe he was being sarcastic and that people like him don’t actually exist anymore.
May 20th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
just LET IT GO ALREADY!
I can’t believe how many people are pissed off about a FICTIONAL CHARACTER DYING!
its not like DC hasn’t killed off characters before and look..THE SKY IS BLUE!
May 20th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
This columnist doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The art on All New Atom was certainly uneven, but everything else about it was brilliant. In 20 some issues, ANA built a more memorable supporting cast than books that have been around for 5 times as long. Choi himself was a likable, relatable character, and showed more personality in his short run than Palmer has throughout his entire existence.
I have been missing reading about Ryan Choi, (and the Lighter than Air Society, Panda, and HEAD!) since the book was canceled. I couldn’t care less what ethnicity Choi was (though Simone did a great job of working his culture into the story), he was a great character, period.
May 20th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
The only bad thing about this is that DC said they weren’t going to use Death to sell books anymore and then do!
Ryan won’t really be missed as he should have never come to be in the first place.
DC tried to force diversification on their readers and failed miserably. Had they instead taken the time to introduce the civilian identities and then ease them into heroes it would have worked better.
For the most part the only one of these characters still around is Blue Beetle ( with the possible exception of Firestorm)
they were badly conceived in the first place and no it’s done.
As for the story reason for his death, obviously it was easier to get the white dwarf tech from him than Ray.
I’m a huge Arrow Family fan and will definitely read the Titans title as it has Deathstroke and will soon have Arsenal as well.
May 20th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Woofus — Wow, I hope that was sarcasm. If not, please explain how you got power and Internet access in your cave.
May 20th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
I love how in all threads like this one, there are always a few people who say things like “Ryan won’t really be missed” smack in the middle of a long line of posts from people talking about how much they miss the character.
I always wonder how it is that some people have learned to type before learning how to read. A real mystery.
May 20th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
@ SouthtownKid
The ones who said stupid comments like Ryan won’t be missed are they same ones who most likely have no problem with Lian Harper or Weather Wizard’s infant son being killed for shock value.
They’re the one who keep supporting crap like CFJ, Blackest Night and Bloody Day; I refuse to say Brightest Day bucause there’s nothing bright about killing characters in order to bring back characters who were iconic or use modern ones as substitutes for others who once were (Hello, Stephanie Brown!).
If Ray Palmer is so “iconic” then why the hell didn’t DC begged Hanna-Barbera to use him in the Superfriends back in the day?
May 20th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
*Pay no attention to the typos
May 20th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
I’m glad to see the Ryan Choi Atom gone and the Ray Palmer (true Atom) restored and his line-up of nemesis hopefully being brought back. Now, let’s get the big 10 back in to the pages of the Justice League!!!
May 20th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
I really think this was a terrible waste of a character with a huge amount of potential. I read the first half of his series and regardless of whether the stories were ground breaking or best selling or whatever, one thing that was outstanding was Ryan Choi’s character. He felt more real than some other characters around in the DCU at the moment Hourman
I love the Atom, and Ray Palmer is a character you can do SO much with – I mean, really he’s the closest thing to Reed Richards the DCU has. A new Atom series with Ryan Choi, one of DC’s few Asian lead characters, as a major supporting character would have totally worked.
And he got killed off for a cheap pop. Sad. It’s a shame he didn’t even look Asian in his last appearance.
May 20th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
For anyone still reading comments, pay no attention to the writer that says the All New Atom series wasn’t good. It’s the most creative and fun new super-hero series that I have read in years. I read Sword of the Atom when it came out, and it was fine, but it was pretty standard hero stuff. I don’t think the Atom ever had stories so good. I was much more of a Ray Palmer fan, if only because he was the Atom I grew up with, but I can’t remember a single Atom story outside of Sword, and I loved almost all the arcs in ANA.
Gail’s Twin Peaks approach to super-heroism and the crazy events in Ivy Town (HEAD) were worth returning to, and I always regretted it’s hasty demise.
Outside of that, I do agree with the writer and most comments on this post, in that DC has gotten really lazy and giving me less reasons to buy these books. I can only blame editorial for not continuing to cultivate and allow talent to grow, losing so many great writers, and putting all their eggs in the same creative basket. You only need to read CFJ, Countdown, the JLA, Gog (for pete’s sake, GOG???), JSA All Stars, Outsiders, this Titans reboot, and anything James Robinson’s evil cousin (who is writing for him now) puts out.
It’s so sad. I eliminated Marvel after the Secret Invasion, and now DC is giving me nothing but jumping off points. Oh well, guess they’re not for me. RIP Ryan Choi, and creativity and diversity in storytelling.
May 20th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
It shouldn’t have to be an either/or thing. Just because I like the character of Ryan doesn’t mean I have to hate Ray. I like Ray fine (and Ray WAS used on Superfriends, btw)
May 20th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Found out Ryan Choi died through this article. Have to say, I liked the character. I liked the All-New Atom when it was coming out. It was fresh, fun, and it had Gail Simone writing. I remember Dan Didio calling it a success even when it shouldn’t have been.
Hearing that he got killed off in some random crossover book just annoys me.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
I’m going to miss this guy. He was a great character. I agree that the art was inconsistent but I enjoyed the series. It was weird but it clicked for me. Ryan’s character was light-hearted, smart and had a pretty good sense of humor. I thought he fit in wherever he appeared. I hope along with Tempest and Damage we can see Ryan Choi return at the end of Brightest Day.
Here’s to Ryan Choi, the 4th Atom. Cheers.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
The Morrison rule does not apply when it comes to fictional minority characters, see also Freedom Beast another Morrison creation. Nor does it keep Morrison from needlessly slaughtering fictional minorities created by other writers as he did with Joshua Clay (Tempest). As a rule minority characters don’t come back to life in any of these big events, I doubt you’ll see Celsius, Vibe I or Tempest enjoying the Brightest Day.
In the last ten years DC has also racked up a decent bodycount of Fictional Asians though with Ryan Choi (Chinese), Lian Harper (Vietnamese-American), Thunderlord (Taiwanese), Gloss (Chinese), Mystek (Korea), and the three Blood Pack guys Mongrel (Vietnamese-American), Nightblade (Chinese-American) and Ballistic (Korean-American).
May 20th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
I was shocked! Very very shocked! HOW DARE THEM KILLING RYAN LIKE THAT!
May 21st, 2010 at 1:12 am
# Woofus Says:
May 20th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
“The hero of any comic or movie should be a white man. That’s so the majority of American readers can identify with him. If it’s a black they’ll just say “Oh, it’s a black movie” unless it’s Will Smith or something. Same with Asians.
Blacks and Asians can be supporting characters, though. That’s why Green Lantern can be black in Justice League, but in his own book (and movie) he has to be white. In fact it’s a Hollywood rule that every movie has to have at least one black in it, or otherwise it’s considered racist. They just can’t be the main character.
So DC should turn its important characters back to white, and for diversity concentrate on the supporting cast, and the not-so-cool characters in team books. (Maybe Jimmy Olsen could be played by a black guy.)”
Actually the majority of Americans are Latino so there goes your ‘theory’, buddy!
But I can see what you’re trying to say. Let’s just act like we did 500 years ago when whites were the majority and all the other races were a pesky nuisance to be treated with irritation at best! [*rolls eyes*]
May 21st, 2010 at 8:02 am
The lack of racial and ethnic diversity in lead characters in comics doesn’t speak to America’s lack of interest in minority lead characters.
It speaks to the lack of diversity among the comic audience.
And that’s a big problem for comics down the road.
America is becoming less and less white all the time. I think younger generations are more open to diversity as well. But the younger generations are not the primary audience for comics anymore–not DC and Marvel comics. The primary audience is a thirty-year-old white guy. And the thirty-year-old white guy wants to read about the same white guys he read about when he was a kid.
I don’t think the comics companies have figured out how to bring the kids back into comics. Maybe the iPad will help. Maybe those kids are lost to television and video games. But I think having a more diverse cast would certainly help.
I don’t think tokenism is the answer. And I don’t think making a legacy character into a minority is the answer either. People see that for what it is.
But comics haven’t introduced any truly memorable, transcend-the-medium characters since Wolverine in the 70s. You might make the case for Cyborg, but the average Joe on the street doesn’t know who Cyborg is, and he too seems to be the “let’s get a black guy” character for the Super Friends.
So as far as new superheroes go, comics are largely barren, and have been for decades. Some of that may be due to changes in the industry–creators can own their projects now, so why give their best ideas to the companies. But it also has to do with the readership being uninterested in any new–and especially nonwhite–characters.
So you have this vicious circle that may well turn into a death spiral: comics fans are mostly aging white guys, and the creators, who always begin as fans now, come from that audience. I imagine there are plenty who would like to see a more diverse cast at both Marvel and DC, but not only does the audience just want the same old characters, but the creators themselves are hesitant about writing minority characters for fear of just writing the kind of stereotypes we’re all familiar with.
Now maybe the iPad will reach a broader audience, which will then lead to more and more diversity among creators, and you’ll start to see that diversity reflected in the comics. I hope it’s not already too late.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:28 am
# DJ Silverchild Says:
May 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
“DC isn’t racist, but there’s certainly enough evidence to make someone think that.
Kyle Rayner, half Asian, has been replaced by Hal Jordan.
I wonder. With Marvel’s books clearly catering to a liberal audience, is DC is trying to cater to conservatives? Just a thought.”
– Wow, where to begin. Where was all this racist talk when DC was promoting minority characters?
I thought Kyle Rayner had Mexican-Irish parents. When did he become Asian?
Conservatives do not flock towards whites-only entertainment reading material. What a ridiculous statement. Put down your 1960′s playbook and come out of your bubble.
May 21st, 2010 at 8:46 am
Kyle Rayner isn’t even half-Mexican. He’s a Caucasian character with an Irish last name. He’s always been drawn Caucasian.
Judd Winick retconned in that his father was a Mexican-American spy, but Ron Marz (the character’s creator) later suggested the spy was merely CLAIMING this. Marz certainly never intended his character to be of anything but Irish descent.
Anyway- I really liked Ryan Choi. But DC isn’t racist for killing him, anymoreso than they were racist for replacing yet another white character with a non-white character.
They tried to make Ryan a big deal. It failed. They now realize they’ll get more traction out of going with the main version of the character.
And we’ll all move on. Or should, anyway.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:58 am
Nice Article and I agree.
If a character does not yet have a place in the Hero Community, he/she shouldn’t just be killed as fodder.
It’s sad to see what happened to Choi. I’m not sure what is worst reading about. Unnecessary deaths like these, or characters such as Batgirl (Cassandra) being destroyed due to bad writing.
What I don’t understand is why DC can’t see that having to heroes with the same name can actually be a good thing.
Look at Captain America. Steve and Bucky both have a strong fan base, yet most don’t want to see either of them killed. Batman. Bruce and Dick. Same story. Green Lantern. Each member has an interesting story.
Why not do the same for Atom, Hawkman and Batgirl?
May 21st, 2010 at 10:00 am
DJ,
I completely agree that DC is becoming the old white guy hero set. And I’m a DC guy! All the non boring characters like Kyle,Conner Hawke and Wally have been replaced by white guys with no soul. I do have to correct you that Kyle is half Irish and hai\lf Latino. Sorry
May 21st, 2010 at 10:27 am
Woofus is a doofus.
May 21st, 2010 at 10:32 am
If Ryan Choi had benefited from this much attention when he was alive in his own comic book, he wouldn’t be dead!!
May 21st, 2010 at 11:46 am
@Jim Kingman
Yes, if only he was more popular. Because popular characters have /never/ been killed off for increased shock value in any medium.. ever! Ever! No, really, they never have! You should probably /read/ more comics before you comment on them, makes you seem like less of a dink.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Aww, I was just trying to add a little levity to the proceedings. I often forget that doesn’t always translate well into writing. Oh, well. I’ll take my dinkiness elsewhere.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:21 pm
That’s not QUITE what I meant, Number Fourteen, but I see your point. I was just trying to add a little levity to the proceedings. I often forget that doesn’t always translate well into writing. Oh, well. I’ll take my dinkiness elsewhere.
May 21st, 2010 at 12:46 pm
You know, we’ve all seen how most replacement heroes eventually get replaced themselves by the originals. I’m laughing remembering Thunderstrike/Thor, U.S. Agent/Captain America, Ben Reilly, etc. Heck, even the one replacement I thought would stick, Wally West, still has to deal with Barry Allen coming back. DC (and Marvel) should keep this in mind when they make the replacements non-white, because even though likely unintentionally, they’re setting up their diverse characters to be tossed aside later. Seems for that reason alone they’d better create brand new characters of diverse backgrounds and make any temporary-no-matter-how-much-they-think-otherwise replacements white.
I also don’t agree that white people will read only white characters. I’m white, and I loved Shang-Chi MOKF, the original White Tiger, Blade, and Christopher Priest’s Black Panther (but hated Hudlin’s BP, which I felt was racist). The shame of it is that almost no new characters succeed in their own books these days, white or otherwise.
May 21st, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Wow yet another needless death to sell a bad comic dc??? really? your getting that repetive? Why do they even think this would have any positive impact storywise?
It doesnt give Deathstorke any more crediblity he already bombed Bluehaven using a team to kill a rookie hero is nothing in comparison. It took out a leadership roll for Palmer as a teacher and a link to younger heros as well as comics he usually woulnt show up in killing some expansion for the character.
As much as people clam to hate legacy heros in dc the most popular( and only mass popular ) dc characters have other counterparts that they build up off in stories as ways of giving them other prospectives of themselves which really could have worked well for Ray being a teacher it would be a ultimate test for him.
Ryan is one of the better new characters dc has well had and to be blantly killed off is at best anywere form a meh to dumba$$ move.
They could have promoted the story and book better having heros fail in protecting or stoping deathstroks team form assinating some high level political figure and taking down some government or even starting a war. It would publically cause the hero to man up and unite as well as villian wise place deathstroke on a higher level internally in the dcu. But killing a rookie hero? wow you did the same thing 40 other villians did in the last 5 years way to go.
May 21st, 2010 at 4:00 pm
DJ Silverchild:
You speculate that DC is catering to conservatives by killing off non-whites.
That is about as offensive as it gets. i am conservative & married to a non-white. But thanks for painting all conservatives as racists!
You must be liberal to be so stupid!
May 21st, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Very disappointed in Titans. First Winick’s crap, then this! The all new Atom was a great book with a great character and great setting. Eventhough Ray is back, and I’m ok with that, why kill Choi! No choi-palmer team-ups? No opportunities for new stories.
We already know Deathstroke is a bad guy.
If we are going to kill anyone, get rid of Ollie or his one-armed junkie kid. Or Geo-Force, I really hate that guy. Magog could go too.
May 21st, 2010 at 9:54 pm
If The All New Atom was so great, how come he didn’t sell more books? Month after month sales went down, down, down. I myself did not like the character after buying the first five issues. This character didn’t come close to the greatness that was/is Ray Palmer as the Atom. All of you who talk about asian versus white characters, well, I bought Master of Kung Fu from Marvel for years and I loved it! If the Choi Atom had been even close to what MOKF was, his book would have lasted for a long time. It wasn’t; he was boring and the book was canceled. Case closed. Every new character that comes out does not have to be black, asian, latino, Arab, woman, etc. just for the sake of being a different race. Give me a well written, well drawn character and I don’t care what race he/she is, I’ll read it! The Choi Atom was not very good on any scale and to DC’s credit they got rid of him. One less bad character around to gum up the works!
May 22nd, 2010 at 3:19 am
I admit to being a doofus, but I’m not really racist–I’m just realistic about what makes a character worth more money. (Which is what DC is after–not world peace.) Like it or not, whether we are speaking of Hollywood or the comics themselves, that means having white main characters. With a few exceptions, I admit, like Spawn or Will Smith (on a good day). Don’t blame me, blame all the comic-buyers and film-goers who aren’t attracted to black or Asian characters unless they’re in the jungle, the ghetto, or the kung-fu dojo. So I’ve got a lot of company here in my cave.
On the other hand, it is important for marketing reasons not to APPEAR racist, and that means having a few minority supporting characters. DC and Marvel both tried turning popular characters black (Iron Man, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Firestorm, and they thought about doing it to Shazam) or Asian (Green Arrow, Atom) or Mexican (Blue Beetle) but the changes have mostly been unpopular. Worse yet, these days a lot more superheroes are being considered for film adaptations than anyone ever thought possible. Guys like the Atom are right on the borderline–depending on how other movies do, they might be leading characters, or relegated to supporting roles–and Hollywood not being a charity, there’s zero chance that an Atom movie could ever be made with a non-white lead (any more than a Green Lantern movie could be made with a black lead, unless Will Smith wants the part). Hence DC’s uncertainty about whether to make the Atom white or Asian.
May 22nd, 2010 at 3:23 am
Oh yeah–don’t forget (Ultimate) Nick Fury and (Ultimate) Wasp for Marvel.
May 22nd, 2010 at 7:31 am
I liked Ryan Choi, particularly when Gail Simone was writing him. I admit I dropped the book after Gail left, and wasn’t all that sorry when it got canceled, as I wasn’t reading it anymore. But I thought the character had a lot of potential, and could have made a very good supporting character in a team book, or even in a Ray Palmer-centered Atom storyline. With the proliferation of Green Lanterns and Flashes, I didn’t think double Atoms was redundant, especially as they were so distinctly different in personality.
And yes, as an Asian-American, I did find it refreshing that there was a mainstream DCU character of Asian ethnicity that actually got his own ongoing series. That was one of the hooks that brought me onto the book, although that alone would never be enough to keep me.
I didn’t read the Titans issue where he got killed off, as I dropped Titans long ago. And I don’t plan to read it, nor do I have any interest in this new direction of Titans. I’m just sorry that DC felt they had to kill off Ryan to jump start this “new direction.”
May 22nd, 2010 at 12:10 pm
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/05/06/the-racial-politics-of-regressive-storytelling/
An article about this same issue, with an opposing viewpoint.
May 23rd, 2010 at 10:54 pm
I agree that it is a waste of a character whose book, while short, was actually pretty good. It was one of several DC books that shouldn’t really have been cancelled (like Gotham Central, Manhunter, Checkmate) but struggled with readership figures … more a casuality of economics rather than quality.
I can see why the writers thought killing Ryan Choi was a safe bet … The Atom from Suicide Squad was killed in a virtually identical scenario (if anyone can remember that). However, that death played out organically in the story-arc … the character was created to die, but he got some great action scenes, a full-fleshed out backstory, and readers actually cared when he died.
The death of Ryan Choi, on the other hand, just seems like DC editorial had no idea what to do with the character. Which totally sucks. As others have mentioned, Choi was valuable, if only because he provided some ethnic diversity to the DC roster.
Are any readers draw in by these anti-climatic character deaths anymore?
May 24th, 2010 at 5:31 am
Oh no! White people are offended by the funny book racism!
May 24th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Still not as annoyed as Karate Kid getting killed off again.
Ray Palmer, the Atom was on Superfriends.
Bludhaven only had a couple hundred thousand living there so it can’t be millions. Unlike Quarac which Chesire decimated.
Loved Power of the Atom, and I too had trouble getting into the new Atom.
Ted Kord and Dr. Light were both killed off for a hispanic and asian charactors to be introduced.
Personally, I think this move was so there are not 2 Atoms running around, 3 Flash, 2 Green Arrows etc.
I wish Wally hadn’t come back so we would have only two Flash’s.
In cultural death tolls, Katar Hol wasn’t mentioned, who was half Native American. Actually if you think about it, Native American charactors have it worse than Asian in the last ten years. Everyone I can name has bit it.
May 24th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Oh and for the person who brought up Flash’s half asian son, at least he is still alive, unlike Robert Troy, Lian Harper, and Cerdia. Wait, I want my comics to be complete, with all of the original Titans children buying it….c’mon DC, Reverse Flash needs to kill Wally’s kids so every original Titan experiences the same thing.
May 25th, 2010 at 9:20 am
my comment got deleted? I linked to another very interesting article talking about the same subject. I guess it didn’t contribute enough to the dialogue?
May 25th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
I see it now. Sorry!
May 25th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Bob, how was Katar Hol Native American? I thought he was full Thanagarian. Also, both Dr. Lights existed simultaneously for well over two decades, so I don’t think you can really say the white male one was killed off to make way for the Asian female one.
May 26th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
I was a fan of Ryan Choi. I was and am a fan of Ray Palmer. The same can be said about being a Firestorm fan and liking Ronnie Raymond and Professor Stein, but also liking Jason Rusch. I wish DC would stop doing stories like this. It just requires them to “undo” the death later when someone wants to do something with the character. What a disappointing waste.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
While I don’t dispute the race issue most of the bloggers brought up, I think it has more to do with the current DC editorial staff and writers trying to make DC into a Marvel comics clone-Remember the Marvel Silver Age era was rampant with drama and death in many of their books. I think Didio and company need to tone down the soap-opera elements and stop thinking that death is the main thing of interest to the readers-because it’s not.
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