As the movie Nashville once said, politics is everywhere — and it seems like a character like Captain America would certainly not be immune to it, either.
Fox News has reported that the last issue of Captain America, which had a sign that said “Tea Bag The Libs Before They Tea Bag You,” will be altered to remove the sign in future editions.
“I don’t know who did it, probably someone who thought it was funny,” writer Ed Brubaker told Fox, explaining that he did not write that sign in his script, but was likely put in by lettering or production. “I didn’t think so, personally. That’s the sign being changed to something more generic for the trade reprint, because I and my editor were both shocked to see it.”
There’s a lot that could be discussed over something like this — on the one hand, I could certainly understand that no one wants to see their personal beliefs slammed by their favorite comic, and on the other hand, I could certainly understand the idea of “if you’re not a racist/reactionary/crazy person, don’t take this scene personally, it’s not bashing the Republican party as a whole.” (In fact, that might open up a whole can of worms over whether or not the very practice of being a superhero could be a liberal or conservative act!) What say you, Rama readers? Sound off!
[Image via Whyzzat]
February 10th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I know I was offended.
The scene in Captain America painted a very serious group of issues with a broad, liberal brush. The Tea Party movement, while it has strayed from its initial core concept, is not a group of lunatics and crazies.
The Tea Party movement derives its name from the Boston Tea Party, an act of rebellion against excessive taxation. The Obama Administration is piling untold billions and trillions of dollars onto our national debt for future generations to pay off. The Tea Partiers are protesting that debt and those taxes.
Portraying them as a crowd of insane people is not accurate. The majority of them are hard working men and women who are just fed up with where they see the nation headed. There will always be those fringe people that the media (and liberals) focus on to paint the whole group as such. Would the entire Democrat party like to be associated with Rod Blagojevich? Just because one guy was a massive crook, doesn’t mean EVERYONE is. And in this case, just because there might be a few fringe right-wingers at a Tea Party rally, it doesn’t mean they’re all nuts.
Oh, and to be fair, the only one calling them “Tea Baggers” and referring to the act of “tea bagging” is the liberal left who find it humorous they can get away with a sex joke on national television.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Interesting.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
I don’t see the big deal, here. I don’t see this as really showcasing an agenda, as it is having a reflection of the real world and our surroundings. So, the book may be dated in a few years, besides that though?
I do think it’s strange that NOBODY saw this going to print.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Seriously though, you have no right to be offended if you are a part of a political interest group that comes under fire for your unlikely group name. Marvel should NOT pander to any political group by removing this kind crack. I mean, come on, isn’t FREE SPEECH one of the big tenets of the tea bag movement to begin with? Everybody grow up.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Nick should know better than to complain about national debt in the same phrase as complaining about taxes. Isn’t that the reason that the Tea Party movement (whatever minimum older-white-people movement really exists–as created by the Fox network) is so nonsensical? They are right-wing loonies, just like there are left-wing loonies…
They are merely a phoney construct with no central organization and no central message. They are a Republican/Fox construct trying to obstruct any opportunities to improve the lives of the American people…
February 10th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
This is just plain bad business. As a retailer I can tell you, Marvel just alienated half of my market. We’re struggling enough as it is. We depend on Marvel to appeal to a wide audience for the good of the industry and this time they have let us down. You may think this was funny or cute but our retail shop is already on the edge. Why would you do this to us?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
I’m not sure I agree with anyone who has posted so far, at least not entirely.
1) I can understand why Marvel would not want this sign in their book – they’re usually pretty careful not to speak about Democrats or Republicans as a party specifically. I can see why they would not want to bring any associations with the Tea Party either.
2) Joe Q offered an explanation for how this happened. Seems crappy that it happened – though I see no reason to believe he’s lying – http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24784 . Also, Brubaker is pretty open with his political beliefs – if he said he didn’t include that, then I believe it.
3) I also disagree that the Watch Dogs are “a marginally more insane version of the Tea Party types.” If you read the comic this is pretty clearly a conflation of two different groups. And even then, the Watch Dogs are basically domestic terrorists. I don’t like the Tea Party movement, don’t find them to be compelling in any way, but I don’t think they’re anything like the group that Captain America is combating.
4) As to Nick’s point about the use of the phrase “tea bagging” – it is humorous to note that this sign was apparently taken from an actual sign (see above link). So at least *some* members of the party are reveling in the various connotations of their name.
5) Has anyone made the “tempest in the teapot” pun? Can I?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Atomic, are you upset that the reference is being removed, or that it was there in the first place?
February 10th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
“The way this country is headed.” Seriously? Obama’s been been in charge for ONE goddam year. I was worried about the “Way things were headed” up until a year ago. Who was running things before that, hmm? Yeah, it’s ALL the Obama administration’s fault that our debt is so F-ing high, not endless wars along with corporate & governmental corruption. It’s all Obama.
What this has to do with the actual article, I don’t know.
Teabagging indeed.
Bollocks,
–J.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
“The Obama Administration is piling untold billions and trillions of dollars onto our national debt for future generations to pay off. ”
Funny how the same people who called me a terrorist-supporter for saying the same thing about Bush are all upset now over trillions spent in America.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Atomic1: half your market will stop patronizing you because of one silly background sign in one panel of one comic? pretty thin skin!
nobody better tell them about the time Captain America fought a Snake-Man Reagan! (Captain America #344)
February 10th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Who knew Brubaker was such a sycophant for publicity? Must be the Marvel rubbing off on him.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
What’s the big deal? Tea bagger’s are a bunch of unhinged hateful, racists. That convention last weekend was like a Klan rally. Tom Tancredo, one of the top line speakers, said people who didn’t speak English or couldn’t read shouldn’t be allowed to vote, the same excuses for racism given before blacks gained voting rights.
The big surprise is that any Tea Bagger has the skills to read a comic book – they can’t even spell their hateful signs correctly.
Marvel is sackless for even addressing this.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Living in Canada, I had no problems with that scene at all. But then, I’m one of the 60-percenters who are currently being frustrated by Stephen Harper’s crowd…so I would be untroubled by this scene as originally printed.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
It’s funny that right wingers are upset about a comic implying that their group is full or racists. Especially shortly after at their Tea Party National Convention they had a speaker, a sitting congressman, Promote pre-civil rights jim crowe laws like literacy tests and poll taxes.
Also the whole part about Falcon now fitting in….um it’s Idaho, Is there even any minorities there? *joking*
February 10th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Yeah, I think this story pretty much spoke for itself. By altering it and giving it the time of day, it only encourages the teajags, a bunch of folk with imaginary ideals to cover up their racism, greed, and stupidity.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
George M- I am disappointed that they waded into this at all, left of right. Either way, it alienates the remainder of our customers and decreases revenue. Not just as Marvel sales go but as all comic sales and associated merchandise go. Polarizing your consumer base (then choosing a side) is counter productive and inconsiderate to retailers of comic merchandise.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
I’d be offended if it wasn’t based on an actual sign and was trying to make the protesters look silly or something. As it is, nothing can make the tea party movement more silly than actual photographs of their events, so the comic page isn’t offensive at all.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
The problem I see with anything political in comics is that I don’t read comics to have someone’s views pushed upon me. It is Marvel’s right to publish any view that they want, they just lost some more sales from me because of it. I must thank Marvel for doing this because it now saves me an extra 20 dollars a week on comics. I buy comics to get away from all the political bickering and real life events.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
This is obviously not meant to be the American Tea Party people because these signs are filled with correct spelling and don’t have pictures of the president with a bone through his nose. Real Tea Baggers are scarier.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
And just how many times have we seen super-hero comics with a liberal bent? Isn’t the whole Dark Reign thing a commentary about GOP politics post-9/11?
And isn’t it a bit ironic that this post is right after one about Joe Sacco? I disagree with him on the Middle East entirely, but I would never tell him he can’t have that opinion.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
It barely needs to be said, but this is not the same Marvel that published Steve Englehart’s Captain America and Avengers comics in the 70s. Straight-up Nelson Rockefeller in a Serpent Crown. No allegory, no dancing around reactionary, hypocritical morons who never said a word about taxes or deficits as long as a GOP daddy was in the White House. Heck, back then they as much as fingered Nixon, the sitting President, as the leader of the Secret Empire. Now Joe has to scrape and bow because a pseudo-Tea Bagger holds a sign that *an actual Tea Bagger* held? In real life? I expect stiffer spines from self-styled 100% red-blooded American patriots than wetting their pants over a comic book panel. Sack up, Tea Party heroes.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
I think Joe Q.’s explanation actually works well here. If anything, this shows that maybe they shouldn’t be looking at Google Image for ideas for anything. Maybe photo-referencing isn’t all that great, especially for signs. It doesn’t seem like politics played much of, if any of, a role here. It’s more that no one thought to letter the signs until too late.
But really, I didn’t even notice this sign or think twice about it when I read it last week. It definitely doesn’t add anything to the story.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
@Simon DelMonte:
Since you brought it up:
In essence, you’re saying you agree with the belief that innocent Palestinians should be beaten, tortured, kidnapped, held without trial or evidence, humiliated, *killed*, thrown out of their homes, have their farms/livelihoods destroyed, & not be allowed to work by the Israeli Government & Secret Service in the Middle-East’s “Only Democracy”?
I’m curious, where do you stand on the China/Tibet issue?
Humbly,
–J.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
P- I did not say half of my market would stop patronizing us. I said half would be “alienated” Based on my experience in retail, this will likely lead to a 3 to 5 percent drop in overall sales.
Understand, I employ a handful of of comic buffs (like yourself) all doing what we love in an industry we enjoy. However, due to the overall economy we are currently down to operating at about 2 percent above cost. Do the math. Our market is 82 percent Caucasian and evenly divided politically. So as you can see, no matter which side Marvel chooses, we lose. Marvel is kicking us while we are down.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Guess I should have said more.
I think that Sacco presents only one side of the issue. The account in his new book has been questioned outright, and I don’t k ow that it would stand up to unbiased research.
I will add that he tends to ignore the hatred that Hamas feels for every citizen of Israel. I don’t deny that Israel is guilty of a lot of things, but it’s in a war with an organization that says out loud it intends to destroy Israel. Sacco glosses that over, and demonizes Israel as badly as many in the West demonize all Palestinians.
And that is all I will say. I am breaking my own rule to never discuss the Middle East online. It’s too volatile.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Atomic, I’m still confused here. The book came out three weeks ago. Has anyone dropped their Marvel books, or even Captain America because of it?
I’m not calling you out, I’m just curious. It was a non-entity for the better part of a month, and now it’s apparently a huge issue.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
The complaint simply seems baseless once you see that it was taken from a real sign–a fact which I think Fox left out. It’s not an insult. It’s not even satire or parody, it’s an accurate representation of one of many protester at an anti-tax rally. If I were an ultra-sensitive anti-Obama activist, I’d be a bit more insulted by the sign on the previous page that says “No Govt in my Medicare,” clearly implying that the person holding the sign is a moron who doesn’t understand that Medicare is a government program–but again, the reality is that some people in this movement say things like that.
And how is one sign in one establishing shot panel on one page of a 22-page comic pushing someone’s views on you? Especially when it’s an image that accurately reflects an event? If the panel was followed by three pages of Sam and Bucky railing against the stupidity of these protesters for disagreeing with their liberal positions, then maybe you’d have a case for that. As it is, people just seem to be overreacting because it’s fun and easy to be outraged about something.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Nick M, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. America is 12 trillion in debt…10 of that 12 trillion was accumulated by Republican presidents. President Obama has had to spend some money becuase he inherited the greatest economic collapse since the great depression. Saying that our massive debt and deficets are the fault of his administration is factaully incorrect. Obama inherited a 1.3 trillion deficit from Bush. I’ll just stop here.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
George M- Press coverage makes all the difference. So of course, it was not an issue until word got out. These things take time to build steam and even more time for the repercussions to be felt. I do not know of any retailers that would even think of dropping Marvel products. That would be foolish. However, some of us are reconsidering Marvels demands for such large displays and banners in our shops. I’d like customers to know we sell plenty of other merchandise and they aren’t going to have any agenda pushed on them (other than pure fun and entertainment) when they walk through our door.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“a fact which I think Fox left out.”
A common practice at Faux News. Who needs the whole story anyways?
February 10th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Btw, I find this to be even more amusing when Obama – and yes, it is Obama in the Marvel U – has been a willing pawn to Norman Osborn the entire time.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
I am only offended they blamed the lettering department or the production department for this on national TV no less! It is and always will be the EDITOR’S responsibility to EDIT their books. That is their job! If something was added by lettering and/or production, the editor should still have caught it, and taken it out. To blame them after the fact is really low in my book, and I highly doubt it was their fault, but now they got a bad rap to FOX News and the public. That’s not cool. Prove it if it was the lettering department or the production department. Like they need to be crapped on any more then they probably are already!
To blame the lettering department or the production department for inserting a sign that if the editor actually edited their book SAW, and should not have been there, is kinda pathetic. Say you are the editor and you missed it; it was your fault. Don’t blame a nameless “lettering” person. I find blaming the “bottom of the food chain” here classless and just plain scapegoating. Man up…
February 10th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
they had a speaker, a sitting congressman, Promote pre-civil rights jim crowe laws like literacy tests and poll taxes.
For what it’s worth, Tancredo is not a sitting congressman anymore. He is retired from the House. Not that it detracts from your point, really.
I’d be a bit more insulted by the sign on the previous page that says “No Govt in my Medicare,” clearly implying that the person holding the sign is a moron who doesn’t understand that Medicare is a government program–but again, the reality is that some people in this movement say things like that.
That is an actual statement from a conservative activist at a health care-related town hall: http://tr.im/NFtu I’m not claiming either the left or right has a monopoly on idiots or geniuses, but that was a stupid thing to say.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
If the fiction mirrors what real people in the real worlds do, and real people object because it does so…they were doing something right. And should not apologize. Honesty is not always libellous or slanderous, after all.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Atomic: I wasn’t referring to other retailers, I was referring to your personal customers. If they weren’t offended when they read the book three weeks ago, are they really going to be offended now that someone who doesn’t even read comics noticed?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Let’s see. They put it in and if people complain they blame the lettering department. They put it in and no one says anything they pat themselves on the back for being brave enough to put serious contemporary issues in one of their comics.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Someone on Fox News got angry and took offense to something that didn’t meet THEIR agenda. Shocking. When the dems were asking how the hell we were going to pay for two wars, Americans, and Tea-Baggers (sorry Partiers) didn’t blink twice, not until the economy completely fried under the borrow borrow borrow mentality. Guess what, people the government went in debt to pull us out of the depression of the 30′s and there is only one way out now, but now is the time the right developed a conscience regarding spending. Unbelievable.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
[13. TopJack Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
What’s the big deal? Tea bagger’s are a bunch of unhinged hateful, racists. That convention last weekend was like a Klan rally. ]
So, I guess a Tea Party Convention is “racist” because most of the attendees are White.
By that standard, the mostly White Comic Con must be a racist event.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
[Cole Moore Odell Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
It barely needs to be said, but this is not the same Marvel that published Steve Englehart’s Captain America and Avengers comics in the 70s. Straight-up Nelson Rockefeller in a Serpent Crown. No allegory, no dancing around reactionary, hypocritical morons who never said a word about taxes or deficits as long as a GOP daddy was in the White House. Heck, back then they as much as fingered Nixon, the sitting President, as the leader of the Secret Empire.]
Yeah, but Englehart wasn’t be dumb enough to actually name Nixon as the Empire’s leader. Hence, conservative and liberal readers are free to interpret the story as they wish.
Good luck arguing that Brubaker wasn’t taking aim at conservatives. That seen is just too obvious.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:36 am
Fred, whether or not that single scene seemed to be saying anything in particular is pretty irrelevant when you consider that this is part one or two of a four-part story, by the end of which Sam apparently “learns a valuable lesson” about people who don’t share his values. So your second comment on Brubaker’s intentions is invalid at least until we see how the full story pans out.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:50 am
I think the whole thing is stupid and it is sad that it is even an issue for discussion. The fact that the signs were taken from actual political signs should negate any complaints. If tea baggers don’t want to be seen in a negative light, they should rethink how they act and the signs they make.
I think the people of Idaho, or which ever state that was, would find it more insulting that their state was portrayed as a place where business owners would avoid taxes. Even worse is that they are the type of people that would attack or condone an attack against an unarmed federal agent, who also happens to be a black man. I think that would be a hell of a lot more insulting than a stupid sign, that just happens to be based on a real sign.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:05 am
I love how Nick M., in his offended tirade full of inaccuracies, refers to the opposition as the “Democrat” party. That’s one of those tired bits of propaganda from FNC and the Republican party. The individuals are Democrats. Their organization is the Democratic Party.
You know…while he’s trying to decry someone belittling a “party” that he kinda likes.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:11 am
And this is why I love Joey Q. He owned up to it, like he should have. This was NOT the fault of the letterer or production, they were just doing what they were told…
“The book was getting ready to go to the printer, it was on fire already from a deadline standpoint, but the editor on the book noticed that there was a small art correct that needed to get done. On the first page featuring the protesters, the artist on the book drew slogans into the protest signs to give them a sense of reality and to set up the scene. On the following page featuring the protesters again, there were signs, but nothing written in them. From a continuity standpoint, this omission stood out like a sore thumb, but was easily fixable. So, just before the book went to the printer, the editor asked the letterer on the book to just fudge in some quick signs. The letterer in his rush to get the book out of the door but wanting to keep the signs believable, looked on the net and started pulling slogans from actual signs. That’s when he came upon this one.
And used it in the scene and off it went to the printer. Unfortunately, to make the deadline, the work wasn’t double-checked thoroughly, and it was printed as is, which is where we as an editorial group screwed up. We spoke to the letterer, and he was mortified at his mistake and was truly sorry as he had no political agenda. He was just trying to do his job, but ultimately the onus falls on me as E-i-C. All that said, we caught the mistake two weeks ago, after it was printed and removed the sign from the art files so that it no longer appears in future reprints of the title or collections.” – Joe Quesada
Thank you, Joe!
February 11th, 2010 at 11:52 am
George M- Most of my customers didn’t even know about this until it got press coverage. And you are correct in assuming most don’t care anyway. But those my “customers”. My complaint with Marvel is that they are alienating half of my “market”. The folks who walk past my store front or live in the area. Due to this recession, my store is currently operating at about 2% above cost.(Not good!)
We need to bring new customers in, from our local “market”.
Now consider this, our local “market” is evenly divided politically and 82% Caucasian.
Offending half of them (left or right) is not the way to expand your customer base. Marvel isn’t hurt by this one bit but my shop and my people are.
I wish Marvel would consider the little guy before they do this sort of thing. We have been nothing but loyal, if not obedient to them.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Many comments here can be approximated as “I’m not a tea bagger, and I don’t see how tea baggers could offended” with little decoration. I wonder why people think comic books are for kids?
February 11th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
^ have you been reading this discussion? so far there is little evidence that the sign was any sort of intentional slight at all. this is not a case of “marvel not thinking of the little guy”
i also think Geek Gazette’s point is well taken. the sign is just an easy flash point. it doesn’t help that the reporters seemed to conflate the Watchdogs with the protesters.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
If the Internet and Fox News existed in 1966, we’d be reading Stan’s measured apologies about his Sons of the Serpent arc in Avengers to all the fine, lightly-complexioned southern people only interested in maintaining the traditions of Anglo-Saxon culture.
Besides, it would all be Artie Simek’s fault.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
@Atomic1 – For my money, you’re taking sides. You are, by default, saying that Marvel is wrong and awful and that puts you squarely on the side of the people who are ignoring all the context and choosing to see this as an insult. If I were a customer living in your area, and knew what store you claim to be representing, I’d be a lot more likely to bail on you because of YOUR decision to involve yourself in this contrived controversy than because of anything Marvel did.
@Hux – I’m glad you brought up the “Democrat party” nonsense. I had called him on that mean-spirited bit of semiotic terrorism early yesterday, deleted the comment to avoid conflict, and then immediately regretted having done so.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Haha!! Well stated Cole! Somehow I just knew posting to this thread would pay off. -Best wishes to you
@Russ (and the folks who know who I am) The side I am squarely on, is that of my shop, the people who earn a living there and folks that enjoy the atmosphere we create (Our most respected customer base) Thank you all!
Sweat not my friends, we will make this work. It ain’t over till it’s over.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
The Teabagger movement is mostly based on a false concept. The original Boston Tea Party wasn’t a reaction to taxation, represented or not. The British had already lowered the tax on tea. Lowered it enough in fact that legal tea now cost less than the smuggled tea being sold by colonials. Colonials who were *very* upset that their business was being undercut. So they whipped the general public into a mindless fury and had a little party. So, vested business interests used the general public to back actions that would best serve their financial interests. Sounds a *whole* lot like the Republicans in the 21sy century. Get the public to back initiatives that go against the public’s best interests. Nothing new here except the name. The Teabaggers are hateful fools.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
This whole controversy is somewhat ironic for a story entitled “Two Americas”, isn’t it? People are way too easily offended. Especially these tea bagging douche wads. Get over it.
There is a whole other side to this story that everyone seems to be ignoring: censorship. Why is it alright to allow a bunch of right wing scolds determine what is appropriate literary content these days?
February 11th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Atomic1 – I very rarely call anyone a name. That said, you are a freakin’ CRYBABY! Gawd, your store may lose a few customers because a comic with heavy political overtones had a bit of verissimilitude. Get over it! No one will remember this.
PS – if you will still talk to someone who has, regrettably, called you a name – how do you feel about Marvel’s objectification of women, and trivializing them with titles like “Girl Comics” to refer to comics written and drawn by … say, 22-70 year old women? You’re very big on the fact that “82 percent of your market is Caucasian” etc. – and that you need to expand it – how do you feel about Marvel perpetually alienating 51 percent of the American population? Serious question, I would appreciate your opinion.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
@Atomic1
The following blog excerpt is a great example of your concerns for lost business.
[What’s even worse is seeing the reaction around the internet. Some people are cheering at the thought of Cap beating up “tea-baggers”. To demonstrate the problem with that, let’s suppose two comic fans are talking: Rick & Dan.
Dan: No way! You’re a Green Lantern fan too?
Rick: Heck yeah! Did you check out the latest Blackest Night?
Dan: Of course! How kick ass was Mogo?
Rick: Beyond the ability of words to describe!
Now, let’s examine the scene again:
Dan: No way! You’re a fan of Captain America?
Rick: Through thick and thin!
Dan: This latest issue is so great! He totally beats up on some stupid tea-baggers.
Rick: What?
Dan: It’s so awesome.
Rick: I attended the last, local tea party. Are you saying you’d like to see Captain America beat me up?
Way to divide people and ruin friendships Brubaker.]
http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/so-what-are-you-a-captain-of/
February 11th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
(cont.)
What happened to Marvel superheroes fighting people who engaged in TRUE evil ranging from bank robberies to conquering the universe? Look no further than DC’s Green Lantern story lines (Sinestro Corp to Blackest Night) to see how extremely lucrative traditional superheroics can be.
Come to think of it Invincible also ignores politics in favor of epic cosmic battles and will soon reach its 70th issue. You’d be hard pressed to think of another new superhero, indy or corporate-owned, that have reached the milestone in the last decade. And I doubt Invincible would still exist if Robert Kirkman engaged in portraying any of his readers, liberal or conservative, as evil.
So, it makes good business sense for a comic publisher to focus more on memorable,well-crafted stories instead of trite political jabs.
February 11th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Kyle Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
[It’s funny that right wingers are upset about a comic implying that their group is full or racists. Especially shortly after at their Tea Party National Convention they had a speaker, a sitting congressman, Promote pre-civil rights jim crowe laws like literacy tests and poll taxes.]
Actually, Tancredo said that voters should have CIVIC literacy tests.
http://bigjournalism.com/llyman/2010/02/11/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-no-entiende-ingles/
That’s not unreasonable since I couldn’t pass high school history without understand the basics of the US Constitution and the government its built.
So, why is the idea of a more civics-savvy voting population terrifying to some people?
February 11th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
@Kyle
BTW, it was an IMMIGRANT driver who inspired Tancredo’s civics literacy idea. Read excerpt below
["The driver was a black guy, and we started making conversation. He said in very precise English, 'What are you doing here?'" Tancredo goes on, effecting an Indian accent when speaking for the driver. "I said, 'Because they asked me.' He said, 'Why?' I said, 'Because I'm running for president. He said, 'Naaaah.'"
After a laugh, Tancredo continues the tale.
"I said, 'Honestly, I am running for president. I know it doesn't look like it, but I'm really running. And I'm a congressman.' And he said, 'Ah, congress,' and he picks up this sheaf of papers on the front seat and starts giving all these facts: 'There are 535 members of congress, with one-hundred in the Senate and 435 in the House. And the United States flag has thirteen stripes, standing for the original thirteen colonies...'
"I said, 'You're going to take your citizenship test?' And he said, 'Yes.' And I said, 'I'll bet we could ask any of the people out there to come over and try to answer questions about what you just said, and I'll bet you wouldn't get ten out of a hundred who would know any of this stuff.' And when I told people this story when I came home, I talked about how immigrants have to know more than people born here have to know, and isn't that ironic, to say the least."]
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/02/tom_tancredo_got_idea_for_civi.php
February 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
wow Fox News getting worked up on a sign that an IMAGINARY hate group’s followers hold up….
I gonna store this into memory for the next time they back someone’s statement that a big black man broke into the house and killed their wife, condemn black men on the whole…then when it is revealed to be false, offer no apologies.
Folks, this was an angry mob lashing out if you read the issue. You expect rationality from an angry mob???
February 12th, 2010 at 12:39 am
We can safely assume that Fred knows exactly what he’s defending here, but for anyone unfamiliar with the history or operation of poll tests:
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/02/06/could-tea-baggers-pass-tancredos-poll-test/
This is vile, flat-out racist stuff that was used for many, many years to bar minorities from voting. As indicated by Tancredo’s speech, it’s woven into the fabric of the Tea Party movement, and it’s why Joe Quesada is pretty much a coward for apologizing.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:55 am
Fred:
“Actually, Tancredo said that voters should have CIVIC literacy tests.”
No. While he did mention civics literacy testing, he did, also, point out that some people are voting without being able to spell VOTE or say it in English. So he wasn’t just talking about civics literacy testing.
And, as much as I’m for voters having to demonstrate knowledge about our system of government before voting, it is absolutely true that such tests (CIVICS literacy tests) were used to keep blacks from voting in the South. Questions that blacks had to answer were of a decidedly higher degree of difficulty in order to try to prevent them from voting and make it all seem like it was on the up and up.
Could Tancredo have nothing but the best motivations in asking for the civics literacy testing? Sure. Is it a device that was used just 4 decades ago to deny a group of people equal rights under the law? Yes, indeed. Can’t be surprised he’s getting some backlash.
February 12th, 2010 at 11:48 am
@Kevin Huxford
Here’s a compromise. Why not make civics literacy test mandatory for all high school and college students?
Schools and colleges are supposed to teach kids about the US Government anyway so this would be a no-brainer.
February 12th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Daryll B Says:
February 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
[I gonna store this into memory for the next time they back someone’s statement that a big black man broke into the house and killed their wife, condemn black men on the whole…then when it is revealed to be false, offer no apologies.]
Oh, please.
Just last month, the book Game Change high-profile quoted Senate leader Harry Reid (White liberal) saying that Obama could win the presidency because he was “light-skinned” and had no “Negro dialect.”
The same book quoted former Bill Clinton (White liberal) saying the following about Obama:
‘A few years ago, this guy would have been serving us coffee,’
And who can forget now VP Joe Biden (White liberal) being shocked that a Black man like then-candidate Obama was so “clean” and “articulate.”
Given the choice, I’d much rather have to deal with White conservative racists since they’re at least HONEST about their bigotry.
February 12th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Daryll B Says:
February 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
[wow Fox News getting worked up on a sign that an IMAGINARY hate group’s followers hold up….]
At least Fox News and Tea Party Patriots criticize entertainment AFTER actually seeing it.
Lately, I’ve noticed too many liberals have a habit of criticizing entertainment before they see it. A great example was when Marvel picked sci-fi legend Orson Scott Card to write Ultimate Iron Man. Card said the mini-series would reveal the origin of Ultimate Tony Stark.
Liberal comic fans were outraged by Marvel picking Card as the writer. Why? Because of a column Card wrote declaring that no-fault divorce, single motherhood, and homosexuality were the greatest threats to the American family.
Thus, some liberals declared that Card’s Iron Man comic would feature regular gay bashings of Ultimate Tony’s homosexual butler, Jarvis. Other liberals wanted Marvel to fire Card for his conservative views. There’s “tolerance” for you.
Sidebar: no divorced or single mom comic book fans were offended by Card’s views, but I digress.
Then, Card’s Iron Man comics finally hits the stands…and people wonder what the fuss was about. Except from evil business tycoon and supervillains, no one could find anything to be offended in Card’s work.
In short, criticizing a comic book is fine if you’ve read the book first. Otherwise, you’ll come of as foolish as Card’s liberal critics.
February 12th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
If half your market is tea baggers Atomic1 you are already screwed.
I marked all of my remaining issues up and stickered them “Furious Tea Baggers!” and doubled my profit on Captain America this month. God Bless the handful loonies and their Tea Bagging money! I love them getting mad at their own signs…but only when Fox tells them to be angry. I also loved taking their money. Heh.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Tetsburo, you are partly correct. The Boston Tea was not specifically about taxes. It was about the bailout (yep a government bail out, sound familiar?) of the East India Company, its given complete monopolistic control of the tea market (so it was in the best interest of the colonials to go out of business?), and the flooding of the market of the cheaper tea. Added to that is the context surrounding that event, which was the last couple of years of the Sugar Act, the Stamp Act, the Currency Act, and the Townshend Revenue Act that WERE about taxing the colonies to pay off the massive war debt of the Seven Years War. Never mind the fact that the Boston Tea Party was only couple months since the Boston Massacre. Tensions between both groups WERE EXTREMELY HIGH. So stop trying to smear a group in the present using a poor historical model. Now if you wanted to make a case that the colonials were not paying their fair share of the debt like the rest of the British you could make a historical case. But you can not take an event in history remove the surrounding context, manipulate to suit your own political, and considering you used it to insult, crass desires.
February 13th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Fred:
“Then, Card’s Iron Man comics finally hits the stands…and people wonder what the fuss was about. Except from evil business tycoon and supervillains, no one could find anything to be offended in Card’s work.”
Well, except for it kind of sucking…
(Especially all that “brain-all-through-the-body” nonsense.)
Also, you kept turning the blame back to Brubaker several times in your comments. Are you really so sure that his claim not to have seen the version of the panel with the filled-in signs until after it was printed is a lie? Really? Why so certain?
February 13th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
“Fred Says:
February 12th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Daryll B Says:
February 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
[wow Fox News getting worked up on a sign that an IMAGINARY hate group’s followers hold up….]
At least Fox News and Tea Party Patriots criticize entertainment AFTER actually seeing it.
Lately, I’ve noticed too many liberals have a habit of criticizing entertainment before they see it. A great example was when Marvel picked sci-fi legend Orson Scott Card to write Ultimate Iron Man. Card said the mini-series would reveal the origin of Ultimate Tony Stark.
Liberal comic fans were outraged by Marvel picking Card as the writer. Why? Because of a column Card wrote declaring that no-fault divorce, single motherhood, and homosexuality were the greatest threats to the American family.
Thus, some liberals declared that Card’s Iron Man comic would feature regular gay bashings of Ultimate Tony’s homosexual butler, Jarvis.”
No, you confuse things. Liberals were mad that Marvel was employing such a proud bigot to work on a relatively big project. They might have worried that he’d interject his line of thinking into the story, but it wasn’t what they were criticizing the move for.
February 14th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Fred, you have a point but I wasn’t exaggerating about my story either. Look it up…
As for the part you didn’t want to tackle in my statements, The Watchdogs in Cap lore have ALWAYS preyed on the downtrodden and weak when they are at their lowest to feed into their hate. They are the ultimate symbol of Fahrenheit 51 (I think that’s the movie at least where government led book and art burnings?). So for one of their dupes to hold up that sign is not that far fetched. Again I have no problem with it if it fits the context of the story.
Heck, I have grown to accept hearing the N-Word in some forms of entertainment that is totally inappropriate. I dunno if that is me just getting numb to it or what but what I wish is that before condemning, someone would have taken the time to actually READ the book.
February 14th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Kevin Huxford Says:
February 13th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
[No, you confuse things. Liberals were mad that Marvel was employing such a proud bigot to work on a relatively big project. They might have worried that he’d interject his line of thinking into the story, but it wasn’t what they were criticizing the move for.]
Still foolish.
Card’s liberal critics remind me of liberal groups like NOW who wanted CBS to not air Tim Tebow’s pro-life Super Bowl ad. The feminist liberals declared the ad (which they hadn’t actually seen) would be chock full of “sexism” and “intolerance.”
Then ad aired. See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDwHywPk4kI
Now, Tebow’s liberal critics are silent as they realized they should have looked before leaping to conclusions.
So, I stand by my initial comments about liberal critics of entertainment.
February 14th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Daryll B Says:
February 14th, 2010 at 11:35 am
[As for the part you didn’t want to tackle in my statements, The Watchdogs in Cap lore have ALWAYS preyed on the downtrodden and weak when they are at their lowest to feed into their hate. They are the ultimate symbol of Fahrenheit 51 (I think that’s the movie at least where government led book and art burnings?). So for one of their dupes to hold up that sign is not that far fetched. Again I have no problem with it if it fits the context of the story.]
The movie you’re referring to is Fahrenheit 451 based on the classic novel of the same name.
Getting back to comics, if the protesters are Watchdogs, then where are their orange and gray costumes? Colorful spandex would go a long way in underscoring that the protesters were part of a fictional group.
February 14th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Speaking about comics and the Tea Party, this satire is timely:
“Cap ‘n’ Trade”:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/cmuir/2010/02/14/cap-n-trade/
February 15th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Tetsubo: I wondered how long it would take to migrate that “original Tea Party = smuggler gangs” meme from the Globe and Mail – or was it the Toronto Star? – Op-Ed letters section to here.
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