One item of particular interest popped up during the Mondo Marvel panel at Baltimore over the weekend. As covered in our panel report, a fan posed the following and received an answer from Brian Michael Bendis.
Q: Who was the secret character behind Osborn to keep the Cabal in line?
A: Bendis: You WILL find out in Siege: The Cabal in December. The reveal is already drawn.
I have to say that I’m expecting this guy.
As I referenced in last week’s Right to Assemble column on the mothership, the Mephisto twist has to come back into play at some point. It’s sensible dramatic unity. It’s sensible dramatic consequence. At some point, Peter Parker will have to pay the emotional cost of sacrificing his marriage to save Aunt May or else, to me, it totally invalidates what Peter Parker should be all about. (I know that Tom Brevoort said it’s about youth and not responsibility, but I don’t buy that any more than I bought Secret Defenders).
From a practical standpoint, look at the original Cabal: Norman, Doom, Emma, Namor, The Hood, and Loki. Emma and Namor have split, but who has the power to keep Doom, The Hood, and LOKI in check? You could probably convincingly occupy Doom with any number of things Reed-Richards-related (”WHAT?! Richards has a new 108″ plasma? None out-gear Doom! RICHARDS!!!!”), and any number of guys could take out Robbins if they separate him from the, well, hood. But Loki? You need a whole lot of gun for that, and the one that makes sense is the Big Evil.
What do you think readers? Is this the endgame of several years worth of story? Is THAT the final straw? It’s always made sense that Spider-Man would be the one to land the final punch on Norman, but you need an extra layer of threat, something so mind-bogglingly huge, that you need the Power Trio to put the band back together. That would make it a day unlike any other, and I think that’s your shadowy figure. Please discuss.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I hadn’t thought of that, but it makes sense. I wonder what Norman could offer Mephisto, though? I assume he is pretty damned already (although maybe someone else owns his soul), and he doesn’t strike me as being likely to reform any time soon.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Might better explain Norman’s miraculous recovery from a goblin flier puncturing his torso all those years ago.
Yet, I can’t see a guy like Bendis going for the Devil angle. The “devil is behind everything” solution seems like kind of a cop-out…though I agree the Spider-Man “One More Day” connection adds a bit of intrigue (which itself seemed like the ultimate cop-out at the time).
October 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Someone put out a theory that One More Day and such is actually part of an Osborn scheme. It wasn’t so much that Peter or MJ made a deal with Mephisto, but NORMAN did, to gain the power he now controls.
Make Spidey all the more miserable as a result was just icing on the cake.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Jesus, I hope to never see Mephisto again. Loki owes Peter a favor; just have him wave his hand and be done with BND already.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am
I don’t know. It seems unlikely that Spidey is going to be the guy to take down Osborn or that this whole thing is Spidey centric to the point he has to save the day. BUT I will say that it could be Mephisto and that Norman made a deal with him.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Doom also owes him a favour as well.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Sorry, just seems a bit of a lame probability and ending, but then, considering how most of Marvels cross-company ‘epic’ storylines have failed to deliver, why should Dark Reign be any different?
Plus if it was ultimately revealed to be Mephisto…wouldn’t that lead to his eventual slapdown, negating Brand New Day in the process?
My Guess?
THE BEYONDER
Re-introduced in Avengers:Illuminati…and then forgotten?
I doubt it, Bendis seldom does something for nothing.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Please…no. Just no. The ebb and flow of Dark Reign has made sense, and I was always under the impression it was the Sentry lurking in the doorway behind Norman. If Mephisto’s behind Dark Reign, I will be SEVERELY disappointed.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
No big surprise here. Move along..
October 12th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Beyonder makes sense to me. Don’t forget they’ve been teasing the return of the Molecule Man in the solicits, and he was a pretty major player in the original Secret Wars …
October 12th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Mephisto comes off as deus ex machina to me.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
@DavidF - The Sentry eh? Now that’s something… I’ll jump on board to that theory.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
“Mephisto comes off as deus ex machina to me.”
That’s right. Because they didn’t use the deus ex machina to resolve:
One More Day
Secret Invasion (Reed’s magic lamp!)
Secret Wars (Doom kills them all, but they all come back to life!)
Civil War (Cap just gives up!)
You’re right; they’d never, ever, ever do that.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Well, it does make sense that Mephisto would want to turn the Earth on its ear the way he has but (And I know this is crazy considering he looks like the Devil) does the entire Cabal even know who Mephisto is or what he’s capable of?
October 12th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
This isn’t hard to figure out. Baron Zemo lead the Masters of Evil during Under Siege. He’ll be the leader for this Siege too.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Given that Marvel is pretty determined to push on from the OMD/BND thing, I seriously doubt we’ll be seeing any angles that tie back in with the deal struck between Peter/MJ & Mephisto.
That’s not to say that Marvel’s own devil couldn’t play a part in the overall story, but I seriously doubt it’ll stem from unforeseen consequences relating to the selling of a hot redhead wife for an elderly ailing aunt.
Most likely, the answer to who was in that door will be the most boring, predictable answer ever: The Sentry. He’s too powerful for any one person or group to deal with alone, when aimed properly. I can’t see anyone else being under Norman’s thumb enough to cause that much fear and still make sense. If Norman was wielding Mephisto, Thanos, or some other major player who could cause some caution, he wouldn’t be able to control them any more than he can control Doom, Loki, etc.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I’ll address a couple of these:
The Sentry: I don’t see him as frightening to Emma (she shut him before, and did again, really), Namor (too arrogant), Doom (ditto), or Loki.
Baron Zemo: No way does the presence of Zemo cow any of these people.
Beyonder: That would be an interesting one, but also very Deux Ex, and lacking as much connection. Molecule Man would be a great secret weapon too, but there wouldn’t be much bite to that reveal, would there?
As for “Would the Cabal know Mephisto?”, mostly. Namor faced him and other Satan-guys in Defenders #100. Doom certainly. Loki certainly. Don’t know about Emma, but she’d sense “BIG BAD” coming off of him.
Consider the big moment for the Cabal when you find out who it is.
It’s . . . The Sentry. Who’s been down the hall the whole time.
It’s . . . Zemo. We know Zemo!
It’s . . . Mephisto! Holy crap!
See what I mean?
October 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
The character behind Osborn that keep the Cabal in line is the Sentry! It was reveled from the very beginning of DR.
The Sentry is the strongest character in the Marvel U and that is the reason why nobody would try to hurt Osbern.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Mephisto doesn’t seem right. Emma and Namor already know who it is, right? If it was Mephisto, they would have told Cyclops and it would cause a big fuss on Utopia.
The Beyonder or Molecule Man definitely seem to be better choices. Of course, one could argue that they should have told Cyclops about either of them as well.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Hadn’t thought about The Beyonder. Interesting. I doubt it’s Mephisto. I’ll buy Hope before Mephisto. Maybe it’s Doop?
October 12th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
I don’t much about Mephisto’s power levels, but would Doom, Namor and Loki be over matched by him?
October 12th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Would make a little sense considering Harry was ressurected without any explanation…
October 12th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I agree, with the Sentry people. I think it’s the “Void” Sentry we saw during the Mighty Avengers Secret Invasion issues who saved Lindy.
If you go back and look at the Secret Invasion: Dark Reign one-shot. It is Doom who seems the most startled by who he sees. So yes, Mephisto is a possibilty, but remember, Doom had just recently gotten his ass handed to him like no time before by the Sentry single handily in the second arc of Mighty Avengers.
Plus, Bendis has been foreshadowing the Sentry losing it since the beginning of his New Avengers run and it’s probably about time he paid that off.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
I’d always assume The Sentry as well honestly.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
As much as I wish this was true there is no chance of this happening. To think that Marvel, or more specifically Joe Q would actually go back on their word and pretty much apologize to fans for their stupidity is just wishful thinking.
Remember this is the same guy who refused to retcon Sins Past when he had the perfect opportunity to, even though nobody, and I mean NOBODY, thought it was good. Joe Q litterly cannot admit he is wrong, even though he has made terrible decisions on numerous occasions, which he covered up by letting the writers take the blame despite the fact that it was his editorial power which caused them to happen.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Could it be Wanda ? After House of M Everyone is scared of her coming back !
October 12th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
I thought it was the Void in the hallway, but the Void personified/pictured as he was in the Sentry mini and Exodus.
October 12th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I hope Baron Zemo does come back during Siege (it has been too long since he appeared), but I agree that he wouldn’t intimidate any of the Cabal. I am not sure Doom would be intimidated by the Beyonder either, since the last time Doom (or Doombot) saw him, he looked like part of cosmic cube. Like I said with Mephisto, what hold could Norman have on the Beyonder? The only thing I have against the Void-Sentry theory is that no one (except Emma) on the Cabal would remember the Void every existed, so I can’t see him being that intimidating. Anyway, if the Void is supposed to try to oppose the Sentry all the time, wouldn’t he try to take out Norman?
October 12th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I hope it’s the Beyonder, but I’m resigned to the fact that it’s probably Mephisto.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Molecule Man would be a great secret weapon too, but there wouldn’t be much bite to that reveal, would there?
when did “reveal” become a noun? the word is “revelation.”
October 12th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I will be shocked and disappointed if it is Mephisto. Has there ever been a *good* Mephisto story? I just don’t think he works well in superhero stories.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Okay, I never saw this coming. I’m not sure how Mephisto figures into the Cabal story but I won’t discount it out of hand.
I had a feeling that Mephisto had more in mind during BND than just hoping to break Peter’s heart. My gut tells me (hopes) that the current stories in OMD are just Act II of an epic Peter and MJ saga.
But do his plans for Peter actually figure into Dark Reign? That seems like a bit of a stretch. Maybe there are two separate plans by a villian who is just getting a renewed push.
So what did Norman offer to get the devil’s cooperation anyways? Sell Harry’s son or something?
October 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
The Void is the same difference as The Sentry.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Doubt it. If the guy’s so powerful, why let Emma and Namor get away? I think if anyone is really behind it, it will be someone giving guidance, not power, or else why would Norman need the Cabal?
Although it would explain why Harry came back as a result of OMD.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Seems Mephisto has been busy with his own cabal; Hela, Blackheart, Satannish, & Dormammu (1st in X-Infernious & again in the Capt. Britain Annual). Connection?
October 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@That Nick Guy
One of the better theories that Norman is behind all the Marvel’s latest poppycock won last week’s ToplessRobot Contest:
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/greatest_nerd_theories_and_the_winners_are.php
The gist of it: OMD, Civil War, SI, DR - it’s all part of the Norman’s wish to become the most important man in the USA.
It would make some sense, so it will be most likely something completely different.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Ugh.
Dropped Spider-man completely because of the Mephisto stupidity, looks like Marvel wants me to drop more comics.
Such a stupid and lazy solution coming from the Bendis’ house of ideas?
It’s just so … well it’s not surprising at all.
Yay.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
To add to this conservation I was the one to ask Bendis this question on Saturday and asked was it the Sentry or someone else (as the silhouette looked like the Sentry)? He pretty much dismissed the Sentry theory only assuring we would find out in The Cabal Special in December.
October 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
What are the odds that Impossible Man is behind it all?
October 12th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Mephisto again, really? Can’t we get Galactus out of mothballs? The Beyonder? Hell, I’ll take Korvac at this point!
October 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
You know, it could be the Evil Emperor Zurg, arch-enemy of one Buzz Lightyear…
October 12th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
This would be COMPLETE SHIT if it was Mephisto.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
It’s Jafar !
October 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Well, it would kinda fit with the fact that Marvel has just made trades of the “Mephisto Vs.” series.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I stopped reading the main Marvel line years ago. Every time I see a story like this I am so glad that I did.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Is it……..meh?
October 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
@Grimm–I don’t think Joe Quesada is going to reverse One More Day either, but as Mr. Brownfield points out, Spider-Man needs to be made aware of the deal in order to alleviate the stigma that a character who is supposed to be about personal responsibility made a deal with Marvel’s proxy of the Devil. And this can be done without actually reversing One More Day. All that would have to happen is Spider-Man to simply remember the deal and what reality used to be like, but that all the changes the deal made are still intact. That way you have Spidey realize that he and MJ are supposed to be together, that he made a poor choice in sacrificing his marriage which no longer exists, and now has to try and make amends and win her back after the damage has already been done.
On a separate note, I do think the Beyonder would work just as well as being Norman Osborn’s “Ace in the Hole” to keep the Cabal in line, but Mephisto certainly fits the bill quite nicely.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Who else could it be, wih the power & evil? It could be Loki, playing both ends against the middle. It could be Beyonder or Mephisto, or how about, a plausible idea from out of left field? Dormamu? That I think would be a twist and in a way more likely that Meph. He goes for souls, Dormy wants power! Of course, what with Marvel’s new owners, there’s always the Wicked Queen. Capt. Hook, Ursula The Sea Witch, Thw Wicked Stepmother, Jafar, Cruella DeVille or Maleficent…or my choice those damned Siamese Cats. Uuuh, creepy
October 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@Troy Brownfield
“I don’t see him as frightening to Emma (she shut him before, and did again, really)” yeah but at the end of the Uncanny X-Men/Dark Avengers crossover Emma is stuck with a piece of the void inside of her and now has to stay in diamond form until she figures out what to do. Seems like a good way of taking her out…
October 12th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
M… I’ve never been a huge Marvel fan, but I’ll give it a try:
The door opens for all the cabal to see… Ultron. The real one, the mean, bad-ass, robot-looking Ultron. A super-inteligent killing machine made of adamantium, programmed to do Osborn’s will.
Didn’t Zemo get some stones or something that granted him cosmic powers?
Where is Magneto? He would surely make Doom et al think twice before pissing Osborn off. (Well, maybe Loki wouldn’t be afraid, but for the rest of them…)
If he wasn’t starring in his own series again, I would think the Hulk under some kind of mind control.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
http://www.newsarama.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2856
October 12th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
“I assume he is pretty damned already (although maybe someone else owns his soul), and he doesn’t strike me as being likely to reform any time soon.”
If I were writing this twist, I would say that Norman had sold Harry’s soul years ago, and that’s why Harry went crazy and became the Goblin, and that it also ties in to why Harry was randomly ressurected.
But I think it’s too “tying up loose ends” for Marvel nowadays. It’ll probably wind up being Super Skrull, and he’s actually on a mission to reverse the Civil War, but it goes all wrong when a whole bunch of dinosaurs from the Savage Land attack all the heroes at the same time, or something dumb like that.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
‘At some point, Peter Parker will have to pay the emotional cost of sacrificing his marriage . . .’
I keep hearing this kind of thing. Am I misremembering that it was MJ who made the deal wtih Mephisto, while Peter was asleep?
October 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
actually Mephisto might make sense, if Osborn is his pawn and The Hood as we know is Dormammus then a coflict between the two demons could be what Hellstorm refered to in New Avengers when he said something Big was coming.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I think Mephisto is a good candidate, but there are more out there. There are two distinct possibilities that I think people aren’t taking into consideration. First, how about Apocalypse? I know we just saw him in Messiah War, but that was thousands of years in the future. Don’t forget there’s still an Apocalypse lurking in the 21st century, and he has successfully gone toe to toe with Loki (back in the Acts of Vengeance backup story in X-Factor #50). Also, as possibility number 2, how about Kang? Haven’t seen him in a hot second. And here’s one that just popped into my head while typing. What about Marvel/Miracle Man? The timing of Marvel’s acquisition of the character is perfect, and he is a god-like, morally ambivalent, near omnipotent superhuman who would provide the same “Oh sh*t!” factor as Mephisto, Apocalypse, or Kang.
October 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
It’s Nekron.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
I didn’t think of it, but Mephisto does match with the shadow
October 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I thought Mephisto was an obvious choice for the person behind Osborn. I don’t think it’s surprising…
October 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Sentry would make the most sense, especially if he’s stopped being the Sentry and become the Void (as recent issues of Dark Avengers suggest.
Mephisto… no. I cannot take him seriously as a villain after One More Day. Marvel would be wise to keep him on the backburner for a while longer.
I want to be excited about Siege, if only as a wrap-up to Dark Reign, but after Secret Invasion only managed two issues of plot in an eight issue event it’s hard to root for this one.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
It’s not the Sentry.
It’s the VOID.
There’s a difference. Same source person (Bob), but two different people.
Frankly though, I’m not looking forward to it. The Sentry is one of the most inane ideas in Marvel right now, and it seems most of the time he’s just being there getting swept up in whatever is coming down the pipeline. Most powerful being on earth? Quite possibly. But he will and always will be an accessory, nothing more.
Get rid of him already.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I wonder if Norman might not have offered the ultimate prize to Mephisto. The purely innocent soul of a child. A child by the name of Baby May Parker..bwahahahahahahaha
October 12th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
@John Warren
“Reveal” has been a noun in entertainment usage terms for over 50 years. It’s been regularly used in screenplays and film reviews for decades (”close up on the reveal”, for example). Siskel and Ebert argued about “the reveal” in “The Crying Game” in 1993. Reality shows appropriated it in that decade for decorating shows. It is not a new use, and it’s quite common in writing about entertainment.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I actually thought Mephisto was going to be behind Civil War. I always assumed that Miriam Sharpe was Mephisto in disguise. Her son that “died” was named “Damien” and she was the face to the reason behind Tony Stark’s push to regulate everything. It seemed too obvious though. I doubt that was ever really intended.
I don’t know if all signs necessarily point to Mephisto. Maybe you know something we don’t.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Do you think it’s significant to the Mephisto theory that Marvel just happens to be releasing a trade this week of the semi-obscure, 22-year-old “Mephisto Vs. …” limited series?
Just sayin’.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
The Sentry is the Void is the Sentry is the Void.
But, what if Mephisto or the Beyonder WAS the Sentry?
October 12th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
It’s Dan Didio!
October 12th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
“Do you think it’s significant to the Mephisto theory that Marvel just happens to be releasing a trade this week of the semi-obscure, 22-year-old “Mephisto Vs. …” limited series?”
That’s what pushed Mephisto to the top of my suspect list too. Hope I’m wrong.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I think it’s the Void, somehow. Bendis has such a boner over using the Sentry and the character has the power to be a threat to any of them.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I might buy Mephisto as being behind this whole mess except for a few things…
… “Dark Reign” is only the latest chapter of a story that began with “Civil War”, long before Peter Parker made his deal with the devil so other than maybe using him to explain why the goverment put a sociopath in charge of national security, I don’t see the point.
… this story has become so convoluted that it realy doesn’t matter what they do, “Civil War” alone, has 19 trade paperbacks. They should have tied up the initial story after “Secret Invasion”.
If any planning had realy gone into this story we might have found out that the Skrull infiltration had been discovered by Reed Richards and the Civil War & the Initiative were actually part of a plan to allow the heroes to create an army in secret and prepare to battle the Skrulls. After the war they could have had Osborn make his move for power, and then it would make sense to tie it in to the Spiderman/Mephisto story.
Too little, too late!
Ron
Rons Comic World
Armory Plaza - Rt 38
Mount Holly, NJ
October 12th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Could very well be a Mephisto doubling down wager on One More Day to add thematic resonance but really doesn’t make sense to this reader’s past reading history. Always was under the impression that Mephisto was on par with the likes of Loki and Dormammu and Satannish which have all worked together in the past. So much for being the bigger bad than we have already seen during Reign.
Marvel does seem to be all about making amends for offense storylines to a corps of readers that found Civil War to be such.(not me btw) Chezz look what they are doing to Iron Man to that end.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Mephisto, the most underused “GOOD” bad guy in the Marvel U.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Why do people keep saying the deal Peter made with Mephisto? It was MJ that made the deal.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Mephisto - not shocking enough.
Baron Zemo - wouldn’t put the fear of god in anyone on the Cabal.
Superman…i mean Sentry, is to simple for Bendis.
My quess is Marvelman.
October 12th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
it’s the whining superboy-prime from earth prime
October 12th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
What if it’s Marvel Man?
October 12th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Mary Jane made the deal when Quesada wants to condescendingly dismiss a fan who says Peter wouldn’t make a deal with the devil, Peter did when he wants to say, “Peter’s a hero for not letting an old woman die.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Boy I hope it’s as creative as that. I’m with you — at some point, the Mephisto thing needs to be folded back in if it’s to ever satisfy.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
it’s onslaught.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
well, in the forums…somebody posted that the next marvel event that would take place after SI would be “Mephisto War”. the person said he wasn’t sure of the title name…but it did surround Mephisto…and how everything was building up into a war with him.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Don’t think the Beyonder crap will ever get mentioned again…Dumbass..I mean Bendis..probably used it as in joke that some future writer will undo.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
The idea of Mephisto fits all too well. I would actually feel the flow of the story going that way. The Beyonder just always struck me as a bratty kid with too much power. This type of planning does not seem in character. The idea that the Void is in part Mephisto, interesting!
October 12th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Read this posted as an idea by someone before and it makes a lot of sense. Maybe to easy a guess for it to actually be true though. Not that it matters much to me. I hopped off most of the Marvel comics as things led into Secret Invasion because it was dragging a bit and getting to big to actually follow all of it. As long as this nonsense doesn’t start mixing into my enjoyment of the cosmic titles, I don’t care all that much until things get reigned in a bit.
October 12th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Is it possible that Mephisto has been behind everything since Avengers Disassembled?
October 12th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Someone else already brought it up…
Quesada was straight up saying back during OMD that Marvel had HUGE plans for Memphisto and that they were building towards a bunch of stories that would revolve around him
October 12th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
That makes absolutely no sense and you should check your zipper; your OMD hatred is hanging out. Why in the HELL would Mephisto be working FOR Norman Osborn?
If Norman had Mephisto in his back pocket, why wouldn’t he have shown up during Utopia, or made his presence felt in ANY of The List specials? Besides, in the original Under Siege, the threat wasn’t even anything on Loki’s level, it was just an army of villains.
This is like that whiney op-ed last year right before Secret Invasion where someone wrote about too much change in Marvel. Boo hoo. Send ‘em a pitch instead of taking up space on Newsarama’s front page.
October 12th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Mephisto doesn’t seem likely to me, neither does Sentri for that matter. Mephisto doesn’t hang around with little human gangs, Loki of course being the exception. And what would be Mephisto’s motivation for helping out Osborn anyway? Honestly, what the heck does Osborn have to offer? In terms of power levels, Mephisto is on the scale of a higher level God. Even Loki would be in a lower class in comparison. Mephisto is not going to be some bodyguard to a petty human. It just doesn’t make sence. As for Sentri, that doesn’t make any sensce either. he’s already hanging around with Osborn with his Dark Avengers and being a bodyguard. There’s no secret there. So why bother hiding Sentri in the shadows? Nope, that dude in the shadows is someone else. I like the ideas of the Beyonder and the Molecule Man. Those two could wipe the floor with anyone in that room, including the Sentri. That group would have every right to be intimidated. It would also explain Doom’s surprise. Problem with the Beyonder is that he’s in an even higher class than Mephisto. Although if the Beyonder had somehow been reconstituded and lost his memory somehow so that he could be easily manipulated and controlled by Osborn, that’s plausible I suppose. I’d probably say that Molecule Man would be a more likely candidate than the Beyonder though. Doom had control over the Molecule Man during the Secret Wars, so why couldn’t Osborn accomplish the same? At any rate those two are a little bit out of left field. But that’s where we need to focus our attention, ’cause that’s where the anser is going to come from. I have no evidence for this but I’m going to throw out a couple more from left field. How about an adult Franklin richards? Nate Grey maybe? Those are two of the most powerful mutants you’d come across. And at least in the case of Nate Grey, we’ve already learned that Marvel is going to be bringing back his character.
October 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
The Void?
October 12th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
It doesn’t matter any more. It’s too late. I’ve left the ‘House of Ideas’ and turned off the porch light.
All kidding aside; I really hope the last several years worth of mainline Marvel ‘continuity’ can be made to make sense in a whole cloth/tapestry kind of way.
Just so I can read about it here on ‘Rama.
October 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Sorry. That was snarky and a little more negative than usual for me. Best of luck to all.
October 12th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
What a silly suggestion. There is NO way that its Mephisto. Silly Silly Silly suggestion.
October 12th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
This has the potential to be really cool or really stupid and embarassing for Bendis. If you thought the “internet splitting in half” comment about Hawkeye returning in HoM was ridiculous, this could be much worse. Bendis could end up being a laughing stock. Bendis and Marvel really need to put a of thought into this reveal.
Who in the Marvel universe could possibly evoke such fear in Emma, Namor, Sentry, Doom and Loki the Hood is a non-threat joke, thus not included)?? Not only are these folks uber-powerful, they are arrogant megalomaniacs. So they are not easily intimidated.
To help Bendis out and to save him from the potential “internet splitting in half” the second to the 10th power, might I suggest some version of Dark Phoenix.
October 12th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
The secret character behind Osborn is URSA MAJOR.
Everyone is afraid of a big bear! Especially a Russian Bear!
October 12th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
mmm…I was reading some old Marvel Knights 4 comics, and the penultium chapter of those comics involved Nicholas Scratch, at the end of that stories hi is vanished and end up with mephisto and he enlist him for an army. mephisto tells nicholas scratch that there is a war coming. Did we ever saw that war?
oh, and that woman telling Stark about his dead son in Civil War. Well I always tough that during Secret Invasion they would reveal that she was a skrull.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
The big reveal is that the man behind Norman Osborne’s rise to power is the Void. The Sentry will finally show his true colors and then they can finally kill that annoying bastard off!
October 12th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
i doubt its a spider-man thing since the siege revolves around the return of the original avengers, but for sh*ts and giggles, try this on:
let’s say mephisto came to norman with a deal (back before secret invasion, possibly before he ran thunderbolts); he wants more dead heroes/villains/souls that have thwarted him in the past, and he can put norman in a place of power to kill more of them. he can influence small things so the world turns norman’s way. norman would love this obviously, but it’s the devil; he has to have a side deal. mephisto’s real plan is to put spider-man in such a hard place that the only possible way to stop norman from ruining the world is to kill him. he’s running shield, he’s running the avengers, he’s putting heroes in jail, no one can stop him. spider-man actually committing murder is maybe the only way mephisto will get spider-man’s soul, and he wants that particular soul very badly. it’s worth positioning norman to get that result.
the avengers have to put aside all grievances in order to save spider-man, who they all have connections with and would never leave to die. said at the retailers summit: “what would be bad enough that cap/iron man/thor would forget their huge problems with each other to stop?”
October 12th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
First, the Sentry would be a horrible reveal. Not that he’s not powerful enough (though Doom could probably go toe to toe with him) but he’s been front and center for how long? There’s no secret or surprise to it being the Sentry or the Void.
This connection to Mephisto is pretty interesting and sound. I’m not sure if I’m willing to say that it’s him since it would seem like 1) Osborn is in control of this villain, or 2) Osborn and this person are on equal ground or partners basically.
I’m still going with the Beyonder. If I’m not mistaken (about the character, not the reveal), the Beyonder has an existential crisis. It seems like Osborn is cunning enough to convince Beyonder that he can solve that.
October 12th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
The original Mephisto suggestion came from here:
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/greatest_nerd_theories_and_the_winners_are.php
October 12th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
I agree wit RON C 1st point///
BUT!
ITS DEADPOOL!!!! No all jokes aside Bendis better not really go wit this. It would make mephisto look SOOOooooo weak working for chumps like norman osborn. If its not mephisto my top 5 list for the figure the cabal were surprised about would beeee
1.Red Skull(real ace in the hole, workin wit him in the reborn story)
2.Beyonder(to bold of a move for norman, he aint that bold, he has taskmaster and parker robbins and a magical cape runnin the initiative)
3.Void(why would Doom be surprised about him, he got his butt kicked in front of doom by morgana la fey or w/e her name was from the 1st dark aven arc. And even if he looked different how would doom recognize the void? )
4.Molecule Man(hella power)
5.Wilson Fisk…SIKE…its Mephisto dressed like Walt Disney bitch
Yo Bendis, jump off a bridge and don’t make yours marvel..I don’t like baldhead midgets…U make that figure marvel man u hear me?!?!?!?
October 12th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Jus thought of this one..
Von Strucker..leader of hydra????
Try again?
October 12th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
I would LOVE if it was Mephisto and if the whole story explained in some way all this business with Spider-man. I don’t think a complete retcon of a retcon is needed, but an explanation and tying it all into the Marvel U as a whole would be great.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:05 am
In Dark Avengers #3 The Sentry has his head ripped off by Morgana Le Fae. At the end of DA #4 we find out that he is alive and whole, appearing over New York City in front of Avenger’s Tower.
Daken: “What is he?”
Bullseye: “Better Question: When he flips out once and for all, what, if anything, could kill him?”
It’s easily The Sentry. Bottom line he is a relevant character that would require the assembling of our beloved trio.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:30 am
How about Thanos? He killed 1/2 the universe once, is certainly on par with Loki, and could have his reasons for working WITH Norman. Particularly since we know that the Illuminati members have the Infinity Gems….what if Thanos is helping Norman in exchange for Norman’s help in finding the gems again?
October 13th, 2009 at 1:59 am
It’s Aunt May. Obviously.
October 13th, 2009 at 3:12 am
If you have so many powerful people in the Cabal, it seems that Norman alone would not strike fear into them.
Can’t the mystery figure not be the person actually controlling Norman? I actually hope not because that would seem pretty lame but on the other hand, why would The Beyonder or Mephisto be used as Norman’s bulldog?
October 13th, 2009 at 3:13 am
its actually the Bendis.
even loki fears the Bendis.
October 13th, 2009 at 4:04 am
My bet: Dark Squirrel Girl.
But on a more realistic note I’m not sure Mephisto fits the bill specifically, I always considered Dormannu a step up or two from Mephisto, and he had been endorsing The Hood… Equally though, if we had a reality warper behind this, why would Osbourne have any opponents left?
Are there (evil) end top league telepaths unaccounted for right now?
October 13th, 2009 at 5:17 am
i am guessing taskmaster. that skeletor looking badass would scare anyone.
October 13th, 2009 at 5:19 am
Norman Osborn’s secret weapon is… Batman!!!
This is where he’s been since the end of Final Crisis.
October 13th, 2009 at 6:10 am
@Digit, who said, “The original Mephisto suggestion came from here:
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/greatest_nerd_theories_and_the_winners_are.php”
Interesting, but I never saw that, and have referenced possible Mephisto involvement as recently as last week in “Right to Assemble” and in other things prior to that. It’s cool to see parallel theories, though.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:17 am
It’s not Dormammu. If you’ve seen the previews for Dr. Voodoo he kicks his ass in 5 pages and traps him in his own dimension.
Molecule Man is mentioned in the upciming solicits for…crap, I don’t remember, but he’s somewhere else fighting people. Although it could very well be the Cabal, again I don’t remember.
I would love to think that Spider-man’s soul is something that would reunite the Avengers, but honestly….eh I don’t think that’s big enough. As much as I love spidey, putting him as the main focus of the Avengers coming back together is silly. It just has to be a huge epic threat like their first fight.
I hate the Sentry. I’d be okay with him or void but only if he was killed and completely and utterly destroyed.
Does anyone actually care about Miracleman besides Joe Q?
October 13th, 2009 at 7:37 am
I was always under the impression that it was the Sentry/Void.
I think Loki may have been exaggerating his fear of Osborn’s “hidden enforcer” in order to better manipulate him. He is a trickster god, after all.
Besides, if the Sentry’s power levels are anywhere near the neighborhood of Thor’s and you’re aware of Loki’s history, you know that he fears Thor’s power, hence his continuous plotting to defeat him — so it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say he at least respects the Sentry’s power.
The thing with making it Mephisto is that it would the 2nd time in recent years when Marvel copped-out and used the “it was the devil!” plot device.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:13 am
I bet it’s Razorback.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Is this article really News(arama)worthy? “I think the guy behind Dark Reign is Mephisto”? This is a rumour masquerading as news taking up space. “I’ve got a theory” posts should be in the forums, not on the main page.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Stiltman?
October 13th, 2009 at 8:50 am
I think that it would be a good thing if it was Mepisto. He is the devil of the Marvel Universe and who else would like to see the Bad guys on top, but the devil. I like the theory that Sentry is Mephisto, It would explaine why no one had ever heard of him even though he is super powerfull. I Know it would be the 2nd time that marvel has used the it was the devil plot device, but Marvel could very easily tie the two stories together, by stating that part of normans deal with Mephisto was to bring Harry back and to torment Peter by taking away one of the best things in his life(that would make total sence).
October 13th, 2009 at 9:42 am
@mightytev
The article here is clearly located on the Blog, which is absolutely the place for opinion and theory. There was a link added to the main page because it turned out to be quite the popular discussion. And it’s not a rumor; it’s a theory based on reading and announcements. If you’d like to apply for a position with Newsarama editorial, I’ll put you in touch with Lucas. I will warn you: he will probably make you wash his car for the first two months. It’s what I did to him when he joined the Best Shots team.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:23 am
I really hope it’s the Sentry/Void.
We still haven’t seen any real -with consequences- appearance of the Void in the Marvel U. We always hear Bob bitching about not being able to do anything because the void is going to do something much worse in return. He’s got the tricked out tower that apparently amplifies his (unbelievable) powers (tricking everybody to forget him GLOBALLY) so it wouldn’t be a stretch to believe that he could nudge the public to one direction (Norman). The cabal isn’t a problem here because Doom wouldn’t have a problem joining in with those kind of players (as long as it serves him) Namor could use anybody’s help, Frost infiltrated, Loki has some plan (he is the trickster god after all) and the Hood is a buffoon.
To use Mephisto again after OMD would be stupid in my opinion.
But thats just me.
(excuse any errors in grammar and syntax –English is not my mother tongue)
October 13th, 2009 at 10:26 am
It’s “Willie Lumpkin” aaaaaargh!
Well, you have to admit everyone would be shocked if Norman Osborn told the Cabal that this is the guy in charge.
(It really could be the “GREEN GOBLIN”. Osborn has had a psychotic split, sort of like Sentry. He’s had the Goblin under wraps for so long now that it’s representing itself in some new way now, and who knows what this personality has been up to durring the times that it has taken control?)
Ron
Rons Comic World
Armory Plaza - Rt 38
Mount Holly, NJ
October 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am
I’m betting it’s Bendis. Who wouldn’t be scared of him?
Marvelman it isn’t. They’ve planned this.
Let it be the Void. Let Sentry snap.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:31 am
@Mightytev - The most positive comments I ever got on a single post in all my time at Blog@rama was when I posted the “I bet I know who’s behind Blackest Night” message (turned out to be a day before Nekron was leaked…at least I didn’t take too much time in editing).
October 13th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Actually I thought it was a different big bad than Mephisto. It would have to be somebody that Doom respects enough to follow along with and powerful enough to keep Loki in check. Doom wouldn’t respect Mephisto enough if for nothing else he’s already escaped from hell once. and I would think Loki was more powerful than Mephisto was plus I would hope that the whole Spider-Man/ Mephisto thing would be resolved in Amazing. The one person I think would actually be as powerful or more powerful than Loki, and someone Doom would respect would be a reincarnated Thanos; Marvels equivalent to Darkseid.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:49 am
mmm…was it ever revealed who was the shadow figure who gave the pills to norman to undo the nano-things in his body? (when he first started in Tunderbolts) I remember it was said that during Civil War it was Tony Stark the one that used and force Norman to shoot at the Atlantis Ambassador. Also Norman was scare of him (Stark) and the things controlling him at that moment prevented him from telling who he was. But who was the shadow Figure who gave him the means to get read of the nano tech in his body?
October 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
It’d certainly make dramatic sense if Mephisto were the true big bad of Dark Reign, given that it’s Spider-Man’s arch-nemesis who’s been handed control of everything. I like it, but at the same time I’m not really holding my breath for Marvel to revisit aspects of “One More Day.” The message has been “focus on the new” with Spider-Man since OMD ended, and while they could feel enough time has passed that fans are sufficiently over it, I imagine it’d feel a bit too soon for some of the more sensitive fans.
Personally, just from a story standpoint, OMD was bad enough that I wouldn’t mind if they never revisited it, but if they had to, making Mephisto the driving force behind Dark Reign and making Osborn’s rise to power a direct consequence of Spider-Man and MJ’s deal would be a good way to go about it.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Hey wat if its Vulcan? Would of been nice if he didn’t get his butt kicked in war of kings. Ill be satisfied wit the sentry going borderline psycho again and turning into the void. I would accept that. Thanos? Nawwww ..he’s dead. G’zzz ima be thinking about this for months, at least until deadpool teamups and MWAM wraps up.. Heyyy wat if its hela and the Olympus Group? Purple Man? RED SKULL!!!!!!! It has to be RED SKULL! Why is no 1 listening to me! Ok mayb doom won’t be scared of him.. Or a dark captain america/Redskull? Im so convinced its either red skull or Odin..I swear they revied him and idkk..bendis don’t make it the blue marvel lol or someum weak.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Maybe it is the Dr. Doomer from the Millar Fantastic Four run! hehe
October 13th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
It can’t be Thanos. He was killed by Drax during the Anniliation tale. Right now he’s hanging out with his girl, Death.
I thought it was the Sentry/Void several months ago but I really hope it’s not Mephisto. Don’t get ne wrong, he’s cool in some stories but not as the main dude of Dark Reign. As someone mentioned…it does seem possible since they’re releasing the Mephisto Vs. in trade.
October 13th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Harry’s resurrection was already explained almost a year ago. Norman hired Mysterio to cover up Harry’s “death” when he “died” back in SSM 200.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
yep Thanos was killed during the first Annihilation story.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Can some 1 plz remind me where I can find this mysterious dark figure that we all suspect is mephisto?????
I know I have the issue I jus can’t seem to find it
October 13th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
The issue in question is the oneshot Secret Invasion-Dark Reign. The one with the awful Alex Maleev art, where Namor suffers the worst.
October 14th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Yo luke thanks for the tip but is that the only issue? I jus swear I remember seeing that image in a different issue. I may be WRONG tho. And wat does Namor suffer???? Sorry for all the questions yall but I’ve been reading Dark Reign for a minute now and I jus can’t see it end like this! MEPHISTO? NO FREAKIN WAY
October 14th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Fun blog….
I agree that it has to be Mephisto, the Dark Reign name even conjures up ‘the devil’ - and it has been a while since Mephisto has been in action (I don’t look at OMD as a legit story). People are asking why he would be Normans attack dog, that is his angle. More often than not he is the guy whispering in the ear of someone else. He enjoys the manipulations, pulling the strings. I like the idea that this will force Spidey to kill, so Mephisto finally has claim on Petes soul. That would be great but I don’t see Marvel doing that, there was too much poor feedback from him ‘making the deal’ earlier. But it is Mephistos MO to just be a manipulator.
Other options:
Sentry/Void : They will do something with this and I think it will somehow cause the reintro of Marvelman that Sentry is pretty much a carbon copy of. But that will be a later story (maybe summer 2010 or early 2011)
Thanos: Another good idea but let him stay dead and come back in the cosmic titles as the big bad he is.
Beyonder: ughhh…. which one there has been 3 origins to this mort. The recent mutant inhuman being the worst…. nahhhhh
Molecule Man : Doc Doom wouldn’t be scared - he would see an opportunity
Red Skull: Loki would laugh
Miracleman: See Sentry… and they won’t bring him in as a villain.
Dorammou: as has been said he has his claws in Hood
Odin: Awesome twist, he has been an ass before and I think it could lead to a Asgard vs Earth battle with Thor supporting Earth. The Seige wouldn’t be Hammer attacking Asgard but Asgard attacking earth (ala one of the final Thor stories before Disassembled) But again I don’t think Marvel would do this.
October 14th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Is this the james from hub comics? Hahahaha
Good points tho james, I read thru it and I agree that doom would laugh in redskulls face but hey redskull has pull.
I know its not von strucker, molecule man, thanos etc etc but Odin??? I like your points on Odin and it would make sense how Thor sides wit the avengers again to face his father if he sides wit Osborn.
Lookin @ how marvel jus put out the Mephisto book this week I can see why everybody has there thumb on him. Idk…MEPHISTO and Osborn??? I jus don’t see it, but who else would the cabal be afraid of?
October 20th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
It’s Odin.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Oh my god, it has to be Forbush-Man!
October 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Who is this secret figure everyone is talking about? How do we know that there’s a power behind Norman Osborn? What book did I miss that this is in?
October 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Really? I thought that it was just the Sentry as usual. Doom respects his power since being overwhelmed in their Mighty Avengers confrontation, and getting technical about it Sentry does have a lot more raw power even than Loki.
Still, Hood was empowered by frigging Dormammu at the time, who is waaayyyyyyy beyond even Mephisto’s league, arguably Marvel’s by far most powerful regular villain in fact. Heck he even created M’s at the very least equal Satannish as a minor extension of his own power. Ands the Sentry’s million exploding suns? Pshaw, Dormammu actually managed to beat up Eternity.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:09 am
Its Lars M. Dusseldorf from Justsomerandomguy’s marvel/dc youtube videos! The big wigs at the big two must have finally decided to bring his work into canon.