Canon. Everyone’s got their own — and woe if you throw a wrench in that personal narrative, especially when done in jest. But in DC’s Cry for Justice #2, we get a glimpse of that famous Green Lantern willpower at work, and it has certainly caused its fair share of debate on the Internet:
Here’s our very own Caleb’s thoughts on this:
How can you make fun of a professional comics writer for writing “glorified fan fiction” when they are literally being paid to write straight superhero sexytime right into their scripts? I guess I should be thankful that Robinson merely had his characters talking about the event, rather than including a scene where he demonstrates how virile and sexy that one superhero is by having him bang two superheroines at the same time, but still, ugh.
Newsarama poster Robin_Goodfellow takes the scene as a comedic moment from an otherwise dead serious script:
I don’t think Ollie thought Hal needed to confess a three-way. I think Ollie was using humour to deflate an otherwise extremely awkward situation. Hal is clearly upset and grieving for lost comrades, so Ollie cracked a cheap joke designed to relax Hal and remind him that he’s talking to a friend, not just a teammate.
While its hardly amazing dialogue, it does add something to the story by helping to establish Ollie’s character, Hal’s character, and the relationship these men had (more on that later in the Hal, Ollie, Black Canary three-way).
As for the threesome, I doubt it will be referenced in any other comic ever again, so I would just assume it’s a windup that Hal played along with, the equivalent of:
Hal: I have a confession to make.
Ollie: If it’s about secretly videotaping Clark using the bathroom I’m way ahead of you.
Hal: You heard about that?
Ollie: Everyone heard about that.
Meanwhile, former Birds of Prey writer Gail Simone takes this opinion:
I could see Lady Blackhawk, actually. Two pilots having some sexy fun, okay, I get that.
But I hate to see Huntress get branded as a slut again. The whole point of the Josh story was for her to realize she deserved better.
And I can’t see them doing a threesome, that affects their friendship, and the Birds were ALREADY one of the very few books about female friendship which is so fucking rare in comics it might as well be moonbeans captured in mason jars. Not that friends can’t have sex, but once again, this is all about the man, and “Well played, sir” is just, ugh.
I love James Robinson. But I really feel like most writers of mainstream comics get the sex thing all wrong over and over. It’s all wink wink nudge nudge and women as trophies and thumbs up and it seems so weird and off-character to me.
But I haven’t read it in context and I’m just the dumb girl anyway.
But James Robinson is a great writer, he’s never written anything I didn’t enjoy in comics and I still think Silver Age is an underrated classic. Maybe I’m reading it wrong.
Here’s my take on it — it could be worse. There are plenty of people who are arguing that Hal Jordan hooking up with two members of the Birds of Prey isn’t necessarily the most pro-feminist statement out there, but I choose to see it as the glass as half-full: After all, they could have been with Kyle Rayner.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:04 am
And no one…no one has thought that the whole interchange might have been a massive improv-ed joke between two friends so close they could say anything to each other?
Have you ever seem Robinson’s tweets? The insane things that come out of his mind at 140-character doses are comedy gold.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Hal looks so serious, I doubt it was improv-ed.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:27 am
“…and I still think Silver Age is an underrated classic.”
So underrated that Gail seems to have forgotten it was actually titled “The Golden Age”.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Even if it was improv-ed, a joke, Ollie trying to lightening a tense moment, it was tasteless and a disservice to the characters of Huntress and Lady Blackhawk. When writer’s have to resort to ploys and gimmicks like this, then perhaps their best work is behind them. I’d really like to see DC not include this page once it gets collected in trade or at the very least change the dialogue. I appreicate reading on the various message boards peoples belief that this time DC/its writer went to far. Of course you posters referring to Huntress and LB as sluts and patting Hal on the back but it does seem the majority of readers agree this was unneccessary and in poor taste.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:48 am
@Lan - I don’t think a lot of thought went into facial expressions in this series. The art is pretty one-note.
My only problem with the whole thing? The Grappa suggests he needed to get them drunk. What’s wrong, Hal couldn’t get them under his own power? Dick could have! As pointed out, this will almost certainly never be referenced anywhere ever again; it’s like Kyle Rayner getting “Bueno”-ed.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:53 am
“Even if it was improv-ed, a joke, Ollie trying to lightening a tense moment, it was tasteless and a disservice to the characters of Huntress and Lady Blackhawk.”
So if he had said “a threesome with Bubbles and Candy from the strip club” it would have been okay?
“Real” conversations like this might not be the fodder of every-day comics writing, but they’re nice little character pieces that are fun from time to time. I refuse to believe that the male heroes of the DCU do not and have not engaged in similar conversationa about if they would, and how, apply themselves to the Power Girl question. One of the best early issues of Wally’s Flash run started as a conversation over which of the DC villains was gay. totally the type of man-versation I could imagine happening. Pied Piper replied that he was gay, and the story took a massive turn.
This is supposed to be a moment between two very male friends. A moment mirrored in endless male comedies. Indeed, if James had wanted to go for more realism, the accused threesome would have been between Hal and two men. Because guys make jokes like that. It’s adolescent and dumb and happens every day.
It doesn’t “mean” anything, but if he’d written that, this torade would be much more vehement, so he made it about girls.
And if twitter was up and running at the moment, you could ask him.
You should see the ridiculous comments fly between him and Sterling Gates. According to him, Sterling planned to show up at SDCC as Robotman from the Doom Patrol, painted gold and wearing a thong. James was, of course, coming as Rita Farr.
August 6th, 2009 at 9:13 am
To me it is all interpretation. He never straight out said ‘threesome’- we are all assuming. It could have been some crazy night of strip poker or the three of them after getting drunk put ass prints on the Batmobile. Who knows?!
August 6th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I haven’t read Cry for Justice. With the reaction it’s getting, I probably won’t. But having said that…
I could see Hal plowing his way (pardon the pun) through the DCU, until he crosses the line by developing a thing for Black Canary or going after Power Girl, and she beats the holy living hell out of him.
But I agree, a threesome with Huntress and Lady Blackhawk does seem a bit much.
…
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Hal developing a crush on someone he can’t have. Have any married heroes or their spouses in the DCU ever had an affair?
August 6th, 2009 at 9:37 am
So if he had said “a threesome with Bubbles and Candy from the strip club” it would have been okay?
If he had put you’re mama’s name, or your sister’s, or your aunt’s, or your wife’s, or your girlfriends’ you’re telling me you’d be cool with it because he has ridiculous conversations with others? And it’s just a joke! My point is no matter how you slice and dice it, it’s disrespectful to speak of Huntress and LB name in that capacity. It’s not cool to run a woman’s name in the mud but say you were just joking. If I had said anything about any of the women you care about you’d be all up in arms. And just because these are ficitional female characters doesn’t mean you throw the respect of women factor out with the bath water.
August 6th, 2009 at 9:41 am
“But I agree, a threesome with Huntress and Lady Blackhawk does seem a bit much.
…
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Hal developing a crush on someone he can’t have. Have any married heroes or their spouses in the DCU ever had an affair?”
I think Hal and Zinda would have a ball together. Helena wouldn’t give Hal the time of day. And yes and implied (joking or not) threesome involving Helena and Zinda with anyone and including themselves is going to far. They simply wouldn’t so why even go there especially if it’s just a joke betweens two bros. I would think Ollie would have too much respect for women to even joke like that. Let alone the joke includes two of his wifes best friends who are more like family to her. Again seems in very poor writing taste.
August 6th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Can we all collectively to agree to stop talking about this series? Something awful is sure to come out of every issue and light up the forums, and Didio will think to himself “this is the kind of series that gets people talking, more edgy character neglecting and regressing stories”. Next thing you know, it’s the 90s again.
Let’s treat it like a bee - ignore it and maybe it will go away on its own.
August 6th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Yeah, I thought the quick suggestion of a 3some was presumptuous. I thought it was a chuckle-worthy verbal exchange between to dudes VERY in character, and the only enduring thing I got out of it was an introduction to Grappa.
Sound de-LISH!
August 6th, 2009 at 9:57 am
@MrWesley - It’s already been implied that Hal and Power Girl hooked up. There was even a brief moment where fans were theorizing he might be the father of her ZERO HOUR baby.
@Rev. O.J. Flow - I got introduced to it about two years ago by DIRTY SEXY MONEY, and it was indeed yummy.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Man, I love how Gail Simone can’t even glancingly criticize anything DC does without telling you how gosh-darned awesome and wonderful the people churning out the garbage DC publishes are first.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:18 am
“If he had put you’re mama’s name, or your sister’s, or your aunt’s, or your wife’s, or your girlfriends’ you’re telling me you’d be cool with it because he has ridiculous conversations with others? And it’s just a joke!”
You mean to say you have never had a joking convo with friends that didn’t include something of the likes of “That’s what your mom said while I was…”? Heavens, go read the forums (or more precisely, the archives of the forums) particularly the talk@ threads.
Really, this smacks too much of “I had better say I am offended for fear that someone ELSE says THEY are offended and I will be accused of NOT being offended because I didn’t SAY I was offended” now.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:27 am
“Man, I love how Gail Simone can’t even glancingly criticize anything DC does without telling you how gosh-darned awesome and wonderful the people churning out the garbage DC publishes are first.”
You notice that too! LOL! But to be fair she’s in a tough spot. In all seriousness, I do appreciate her speaking up for these character and calling bs when she sees it though. But she is probably in a position where she has walk that fence very carefully and thoughtfully. I think most understand it for what it is. I much prefer her to say something as oppose to nothing considering how many years she’s spent with these characters. I’d have lost respect had she said nothing.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:32 am
I wanna see a scene where somebody says to a blushing GL that they heard about the time that him and GA had a few beers together and did something like watch each other masturbate or give each other a footjob in a hot tub. Then an embarrassed GL says, “You heard about that? I’d rather be known for the planes I flew.” That would be a cool scene.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:48 am
I know that this scene really disgusted me.
It did not read like they were joking and reduced two female heroines to notches in the bedpost that the guys joke about.
August 6th, 2009 at 11:46 am
I came to the same conclusion as Gail there, I could see Lady Blackhawk and it in a way surprises me it never came up before with the two. But Huntress as well seems a bit overboard especially considering the character.
August 6th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
“Man, I love how Gail Simone can’t even glancingly criticize anything DC does without telling you how gosh-darned awesome and wonderful the people churning out the garbage DC publishes are first.”
Or it COULD just be that I called it as I saw it. Dude, Starman is great and GOLDEN AGE (which I embarrassingly mis-named in my hasty post) is one of my all time favorite DC stories ever.
I get what you’re implying, but in this case, I simply stated the truth as I saw it. Does every post HAVE to be a major drama for people to think it’s sincere?
August 6th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
What in the hell would possess DC editorial to allow this shit to get out there when they are experiencing a Renaissance of sorts with Green Lantern. This is certainly NOT how Hal would behave. Christ, these fanboy writers must get their rocks off writing this sort of crap. Robinson, I expected better from you…or maybe not.
Advice to Dan Didio…only let Geoff Johns work on GL. All others should keep their mitts OFF.
August 6th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
“Does every post HAVE to be a major drama for people to think it’s sincere?”
Yes.
Anything that isn’t a blazing excoriation of everything the target has done and ever will do is an obvious attempt to truckle and curry favor to the person/company, in the hopes of work in the future. Things cannot be taken on a one-by-one basis, the entire catalog must be celebrated or damned.
It’s why people are ever pilloried when they try to suggest that they didn’t like this ONE story of writer XYZ, making them an XYZ apologist.
Really dear, you’ve been doing this long enough to have grasped the subtleties of the rules…
August 6th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
@Vinnie: In your last post I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic. I’m hoping for the latter.
August 7th, 2009 at 6:59 am
This is just crap dialogue, the kind of prefabricated fake-characterisation that turns up all the time in TV shows.
August 7th, 2009 at 9:44 am
21st Century Emerson, you *really* couldn’t tell that Vinnie was being sarcastic…?
I think this whole thing is a mountain constructed solidly from a molehill.
August 7th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
C’mon people, they’ve got over 200 comments on a similar thread over at “Comics Should Be Good”!
August 7th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Why does everyone think they had sex?
Granted it’s implied that something sexual happened, but if everything that was implied in comics was taken as canon, then comics would look very different.
Choose your own interpretation of the above page and run with it.
August 7th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Ok here is my angry fanboy definitive speech lol I think Gail’s run on Birds of Prey was the definitive take on all of the main characters (Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress, Blackhawk, Misfit even) I feel that any man writing these characters after her run as seriously toned down the meaning and life she put into these charcters and the series. The horribleness that is Green Arrow/ Black Canary and now this and a couple of other instances where Huntress was also negatively spoke of in a slut capacity (there was a line in Battle for the Cowl that was dumb) just shows how male writers in the industry still lower female roles and characterization. I mean look at the random pic of the only two females on Robinson’s team? It seems to me that there will be a Kara experimental kiss with Kate ala the upcoming season of Heroes :/
August 7th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
You know? That’s the absolute f***ing limit. I don’t think anyone can possibly post anything more ignorant, insipid or offensive than EvolutionAngel’s blanket assault on every male writer in comics. I guarantee that if I made a similar comment (”no female writer will ever be able to get Superman right because Elliot S! Maggin’s run on the character was definitive…”), I’d be put up on a g—amn CROSS. To me, that kind of ignorance is substantially more offensive than a one-off joke made at the “expense” of fictional characters.
August 8th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Mr Wesley: The only married couples that ever had an affair in the DCU that comes to mind are Dinahs’ own mother the first Black Canary and Ted Knight (Starman.) Though I’m not sure if that has been retconned yet.
Russ: I understand why that statement got you mad. While I haven’t read all the portrayals since BOP I am under the impression that they were mostly bad but I’m not going to assume that every male writer is going to write them less than what they are. I do recall that Chuck Dixon did have an amazing run and Ostrander helped Barbara transform into Oracle.
I didn’t like the joke myself. I didn’t think it was amusing, fit the characters or like that everyone seems to know about it. But the thing that gets me the most? (Which I think Gail might have mentioned else where?) Is that the same situation would never be written with a woman and two male heroes that were well known to be friends. I can’t see that ever getting past the editors.
If you’re going to do it one way then why can’t you do the same with male characters? Is this just the state of mind? Would anyone here who was okay with the above be okay with opening an issue of Booster Gold to find out that him and Ted got together with Oracle? Or would there be even more of an uproar? I’m honesty curious.
August 8th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Beetle and Booster would carry a special kind of controversy with it because of the prevalence of B/B slash fiction out there on the Internet. The fulfillment of lame fan-fiction fantasies always raises hackles. But that said, I think it’s hard to know whether a devil’s three-way would have been more controversial. It’s likely that it would have been a little bit, but probably not much unless they followed it up with an actual relationship.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Well to be blunt having Hal hook up with Helena and Zinda is a ‘fulfillment of lame fan-fiction fantasies’ too. And really the gag Ted and Booster are more than friends has made it into text at least twice once in Extreme Justice and once in one of the ICBINTJL books which might predate fanfic since until CTIC fewer people seemed to even know about those characters. But really the same thing could be said of Hal/Dinah/Ollie.
I used Booster and Beetle as an example since their well known friends and both actually have some connection to Barbara while Huntress and Lady Blackbird to the best of my knowledge are closest linked to Hal through Dinah. It wouldn’t happen despite it making a little more sense than the random pairing above.
Even though sex would likely radically change a friendship we’re led to believe Helena and Zinda are okay with it or even interested in sharing a man with another woman if not having another woman as a lover too. If this did happen with Ted and Booster with Babs, and nothing in the friendship implied that they were actual lovers yet were okay with sharing time with her–I think the controversy would be much bigger than this. Nevermind actually getting a panel the talk alone would dwarf this and the “Jaime isn’t the real Blue Beetle” talks I think.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:52 am
Got cut off above but what I meant to add was that anytime the characters are given radical directions it royally ticks off fans. Joss Whedon decided to have Buffy in bed with another girl even though he stated that she wasn’t gay. There’s a huge great to do with Rictor/Starshatter despite different writers giving hints. I just think there seems to be too much focus on a guy being a stud here and not enough fair play. That’s just how it looks to me right now.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:21 am
sorry guys, but you are being hypocrites…..
you’re complaining that the material is sexist and they make The Huntress and Blackhawk look like sluts……that is a sexist opinion in itself!
Why can’t women have a little fun once in a while? If you think they look like harlots then that is a reflection of your own sexual views, not James Robinson’s. (Or Hal Jordan’s or Ollie’s for that matter LOL)
We’re all consenting adults here! I think you guys are taking things a little too seriously.
And as far as the background of the subject matter is concerned, I think the Girls of Prey are strong characters who pretty much control their own destiny. And as far as the thumbs up bromance going on, it just makes the characters look like real people. Isn’t that why we like DC?
Strong characters with strong beliefs who manage to remain flawed and believable people at the same time? When I read it neither I nor my girlfriend were offended. Maybe a bit jealous LOL. (Both of us)
August 15th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Wow. I’m a girl and I didn’t see it as anything other than a joke, on par with the Clark using the bathroom bit.