Also, no matter how many unpleasant specifics you bring into it to try and insult our sense of propriety, your entire argument is tainted by the fact that your definitions don’t match up. Your own standards, stated above, are “Ok now let’s jump in! Hentai by definition is ‘sexually explicit animation or comics’, Pornography by definition is ‘obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit’”.

Sexually-explicit and obscene are not at all one and the same, and I’m sure many anime readers would disagree with what appears to be an unstated assumption in your “do the math” dismissal: that hentai is inherently without artistic merit. As in almost any obscenity case, “artistic merit” is a silver-bullet defense. I also take issue with your position that “most would agree with Webster and look at sexually explicit anything as porn.” First of all, as stated above, you’ve simplified your interpretation of Webster to meet your own ends and thereby invalidated the point. Secondly, it’s rarely safe to assume that everyone shares your opinion. “Sexually-explicit” is a very broad term and if we were to start with the understanding that anything and everything sexually explicit as pornography, the entertainment landscape would be altered substantially. It would push Laurel K. Hamilton and Stephen King, as well as any number of textbooks and murder mysteries, into niche publications, and force shows like “CSI” and “Bones” to radically alter the way they describe or depict crime.

For my money, I disagree vehemently that pointing out flaws in your opponent’s presentation show some kind of deficit in your ability to argue. The fact that someone didn’t bother to spellcheck can speak to their thoroughness as well as their critical thinking skills, which can help us to see that often, people who are in such a hurry to run others down and make their point passionately fail to take into account such things as the difference between obscenity and sexual explicitness.

Ok now let’s jump in! Hentai by definition is “sexually explicit animation or comics”, Pornography by definition is “obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit…put those two together and do the math. In fact, the origin of the word pornography came from writing about harlots(learn something new everyday). Besides the typical culture whore otaku, most would agree with Webster and look at sexually explicit anything as porn; good quote though.
Well since lolicon is a genre of hentai it is only logical to call it a subfetish, but if you don’t like that let’s call it a hentai option? or maybe your hentai preference?; and yes we’re talking about lolicon hentai, not a cartoon or comic with kids that aren’t being graphically raped, you know the stuff handley just got six months hard time for.

For the passerby who isn’t familiar with lolicon or the obsession into Japanese culture from cartoons and might be coerced into believing that he was arrested for comics that merely insinuate prepubescent sex…he wasn’t. When people debate the morality or legality of lolicon they are almost always refering to hentai lolicon which doesn’t just depict sex from behind the characters, no this is graphic genital to genital intercourse, genital to anal, oral to either and of course we can’t forget the animals, between characters depicted to be and often stated to be ages from four to twelve, any older isn’t considered to be lolicon as there is a general rule in this pedophile community that states “if there’s tit’s, it’s not loli”; and any younger actually falls into an even more disturbing sub genre of hentai known as “toddlercon”, appropriately named. Since it’s a depiction, any angle or view is possible…and used.

Ok back to the rebuttal,
the “thought crime” paragraph, your first issue I just covered as if it was a mature pubescent character it wouldn’t be considered lolicon. Now I would love to read about these actual thought crime arrests for someone writing their own story in their own cell, I doubt it though as actual thought crime arrests would make the news. About my condescending attitude, well they are pedophiles which is basically the worst and most dangerous type of criminal/deviant imaginable; and yes I do believe I have sufficient insight to the issues at play, I’ve been following the case since it happened and with lolicon in general I’ve had a few sites shut down and those that weren’t ran with their tales between their legs and moved their servers to the Netherlands, and I’m working on that;)

Your last two points are kind of hard to follow since you’re basically just trying to insult my character to avoid the issues; but I’ll try to cover what little you said with substance. Well about who is or isn’t a pedophile is quite simple, I go by the definition which is “an adult who is sexually attracted to young children”, so with handley and the rest who are let’s say “attracted” to small children, the depictions of, or just the concept of having sex with small children or viewing of these acts; therefore anyone, to put it kindly “enjoying” themselves viewing depictions of small children being raped, by definition these people would be pedophiles, and if you were trying to say it’s a disease then yes I agree with you to a point even if it’s just an addiction as addiction is a type of disease.

Now for the best part; The sentence for chris handley was issued! Very very lenient considering he was originally facing 20 years jail time. He is going away to serve six months hard time followed by 5 years supervision then three years probation this all includes mandated counseling and polygraphs to ensure he’s ready to be a productive part of society instead of the basement dwelling pedophile he was…we’ll see if it works.

No, it’s not quite as open and shut as you may like to pretend.

Is hentai pornography? Is it? How do you seperate art/erotica/pornography/obscenity etc? There’s no essentialist quality to pornography that allows it to be objectively discernible as pornography. Like Walter Kendrick says, pornography is not a thing but an argument.

Is lolicon a ‘subfetish’ of hentai? I don’t think it’s necessarily logical to assume such a hierarchy and there’s also no guarantee that manga that otherwise concerns representations of what appear to be minor could not be considered either child pornography or obscenity.

“thought crimes would be an unpublished text story about a 5 year old being graphicly (sic) raped” It’s interesting that that’s the scenario you dreamt up considering that you could have just as easily invented a story about a pubescent figure, who’s technically a child in the legal sense, participating in a consensual sexual activity – That narrative would still have the capacity to be found objectionable.
“…which unfortunatley is of course legal…” Yeah, sniff sniff, how unfortunate. If only the government had the right to punish people for their private musings. Perhaps you should move to Canada and egg Robin Sharpe or something. BTW People in the US have been charged for writing stories in the privacy of their prison cells. These individuals were incarcerated for child sex offences and so they faced further charges for putting pen to paper. I can’t remember their names but I guess you could also find out if you were interested (but I doubt you are considering your condescending attitude suggests you seem to think that you’ve got sufficient insight into the issues at play here).

“the problem with loli is it is a visual depiction of crimes agaist children”. Nope, you could easily produce objectionable materials that were not depicting events that are criminal. Use your imagination.

“I know I’ll never convince supporters otherwise, people will defend their sexual orientation towards children to the death but at the same time denying they’re pedophiles”. If your thinking is generally as muddled and arrogant as it is here then I’d be surprised to hear you had friends, let alone be able to win an argument. Pedophilia is a diagnostic classification with lots of holes and so one could actually put forth such an argument. Add to that problems of self-identification and one has to wonder why you even bother to put forth your non-argument (that despite lack of expertise, you’re able to tell who is or isn’t a pedophile).

“If you can give me somthing (sic) else to label someone who masturbates to depictions of children as young as toddlers being raped I’d love to hear it”. Here we go again with the unsolicited nepio/pedophilia. It’s interesting that you like to conjure such scenarios.

The reality is this : Now, it’s be so-called CARTOON minors doing naughty things on PAPER that gets someone time in the Pen…Next, it will be a picture of a woman getting her head chopped off that will lead to 25 years to life for someone who has it.

Do any of you get what I’m saying here? This isn’t about defending the content….this is about defending the right to THINK, DAMMIT!!

you hear me, Jeff?? Mark???

geez….Give someone a blog and all of a sudden they’re an expert lawyer or something..