Fans have been discussing the impact of Marvel’s recently announced price increases (particularly in light of around 30 new first issues in April) , and retailers are weighing in as well. Robert Kimmons, owner of Chicago’s Brainstorm Movies, Comics and Gaming, posted the following open letter to Marvel at his Facebook.
Hello to Joe Quesada and whoever else may be inclined to listen,
My name is Robert and I own Brainstorm Movies Comics and Gaming in Chicago. I am sending this to you in response to the recent price increase of more and more books going up to 3.99.
First of all, I realize that times change and everything goes up eventually. And I have told my customers that have expressed concern about the recent price increases that we should wait and see what happens. My argument was that if the page count goes from 32 to 40, then I could justify spending that on a GOOD book. I would even be willing to forgive it if the 32 page books kicked butt, like Dark Avengers #1.
The latest Previews has a line that seems to repeat itself and it is causing some rumbling. Namely that line is “Plus 8 pages of Director’s Cut Extras!” This is like a slap in the face as one customer put it…right before he had me take all Marvel titles off his list.
Oh, I know, you maybe smiled at that one. Oooo, there goes someone else threatening not to buy our books anymore. Oh what will Marvel Comics do if we don’t sell those 15 or 20 books a month to that one guy in Chicago? I imagine it wouldn’t be that big a deal…except this isn’t the first one this month.
I’m not so much worried about Marvel. I’m worried about Brainstorm. This was someone who has been a customer since the day he walked in. He has stuck it out through thick and thin, and he would probably even be willing to give the price increase a fair chance…UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THERE WOULD BE MORE STORY! Plus 8 pages of Director’s Cut Extras does NOT justify a price increase. Eight pages of story would be an easier sell.
If the price increases are due to budgetary reasons, then may I suggest that Marvel stop putting out things like Marvel: Your Universe or any of the Chronicles. I stopped ordering these with Hulk Chronicles, because that’s when my customers stopped buying them. And when they see this in Previews and then all these 3.99 books they ask me what gives. I don’t know what to tell them. Repacking material that has already come out in trades is like poking a wet cat…it does nothing but make the cat madder.
If you have some insight, I would appreciate it. But I’m pretty certain that this won’t get any response and if I do it will probably be something about how exciting the future of comics is and that the price increases are needed for this or that.
Regardless of whether you answer this or not, keep in mind that there are people out here who have invested everything they have into their stores. The same stores that rely upon people being able to afford the books they’re interested in reading. Because I have found that no matter how good a book is, if people have to make a choice between necessity and Wolverine, they will and have been lately, choose the necessity.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t raise the prices of your books. You’re going to do that anyway. I’ve seen the writing on that wall for a while now. I’m just asking that whoever makes these decisions please keep in mind that if you want more from us, we’re going to want more from you. And Director’s Cut Extras are not going to cut it.
Robert Kimmons
Owner
Brainstorm Movies, Comics and Gaming
1648 W. North Ave.
Chicago, IL 60622
773-384-8721
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 am
So how effective is an open letter on a facebook account? What are the chances that its target audience are going to see it or even pay attention to it if they do? It will be lost in the thousands of updates Joe Quesada and his creators and editors get hourly.
Beyond that, it’s a price increase! Asking the company to raise the price to cover their business and then asking them to give the reader more content is absurd.
I am not a fan of this increase, but the approach in this letter is ludicrous. Chronicles were meant for newstands and bookstores that received no single issues of the series contained and why in the world would they want to stop making money on items they have already made money on… printing a chronicles book is where they have super high profit margins, they’ve already paid for everything…
Look any increase on their end in doing business is going to seem crazy to the costumer, because it goes through two more sets of hands… the retailer gets a substantial discount of their products… their largest customers (the largest retailers) get 55% and up off. Diamond gets a cut as well that means that by the time every one adds a percentage to, a dime increase in a book’s production could very well become a dollar. Asking for more content is paramount to asking for the increase to go up to $5.
Prices go up. The inflation rate be damned… does anyone know what it applies to anyhow? Look at items of a similiar nature that had the same price point when comics were a dime… Paperback novels now run from $8-16, movies (with substantionately less content - only one movie on a matinee, no news reel, shortened trailers as opposed to the five six minute spectacle of the 30’s and 40’s) now will cost you $10-15 a ticket. I hear very little complaint about the increases in those products and they happened long before this increase.
At the end of the day, comics are a cheap form of entertainment. Much is said about the adult collector who gets twenty to thirty books on his pull list, well that guy does it cause he likes it, but most of those same people in the eighties and ninties when they were kids had to pick and choose the comics they read. Heck I have an enormous out of control pull list, but when I was a kid all I got was Batman and Peter Parker Spectactular Spider-Man… a lot of collectors these days had that problem back then… difference was there were more people buying comics, so the kid who bought two comics a month was cool, because that was the nature of the regular customer… when speculation began, all that changed. People started buying comics as an investment and in a lot of ways that has never changed. Now that there are trades and smaller numbers of people reading comics, the price goes up and everyone has a hissy fit.
How about we try to finnd a way to get more readers. In the long run, if movies are still doing well, well they have increased less than comics, so stop sniveling.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I’ve long suggested a price increase to $3.25 across the board. I think people would react a lot better to that, and Marvel would make more money.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
As a retailer, I whole-heartedly support this letter. If the Chronicles and books like that are intended for a wider, non-direct market audience then where are they? I have yet to see them anywhere. Perhaps Marvel should be trimming unnecessary fat before just jumping the line up a whole dollar. Even $3.50 would be preferable. Even more ads in the book would be preferable. Yes, folks paid $3.99 for what was the top comic of 2008, but not every comic is the big, universe altering event book that is the wrap-up to a story that’s been several years in the making.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I’ve got to agree as well. I’m not sure why they decided to skip the other price points either.
So at this point, nearly all of the Marvel titles are off my lists. I can find other titles to spend my money on.
And seriously, TRIM THE FAT! So many useless titles.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I’m with Ryan. I can get behind a price increase to $3.25, but a 33% price increase I can’t get behind.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Here’s my guess: Marvel does the $3.99 books for several months, then, claiming to have “heard the message loud and clear” steps them back to $3.50 to much acclaim and good will. That way, they get several months worth of income from much higher cover prices, then continue to make it with the perceived bargain and PR bonanza.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
That was the intent with Chronicles, it was the big launch statement of the book. However, as usual, Comic Shops ordered it and them whined about it.
Marketing has long been an issue with both of the big two (and really even more so with the independent guys)… First Second and Villard have book companies running them and approached book stores not comic stores with their product and as a result have a stronger precense in book stores than Marvel or DC… who you market to is who buys your books… Same thing happened with Minx.
The whole nature of the letter shows the attitude that shops take. Someone else will bring attention to this, I need merely write it. If not for a blog post, this letter would be a tree falling in the woods, making no sound cause no one was there to hear it.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
$3.99 is just too much. I won’t buy them. The comic book store i frequent said he was already losing customers at the current prices and said there’s no way his base would accept an increase to $3.99. There does come a time when some things just plain cost too much. The only comic book store in the Palm Springs, CA area (an affluent city) is closing this month after more than ten years in business due to the overall poor economy, declining sales and the additional declines they expect when Marvel raises its prices.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
As a Brainstorm customer, I can attest to the outstanding service this store is capable, always putting the customer first. Lately Marvel AND DC haven’t been doing the stores a whole lot of favors, even though they constantly claim that their initiatives are all for putting out better product to bring in more readers.
Price increases are to be expected, but what we’re getting (or better yet NOT getting) is more palpable than ever.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Is it really DC or Marvel’s job to keep stores in business though? No, there job is to put out profitable comics…
Shops need to take ownership of their services. It is one thing to provide great service, but that ain’t getting the new follks in the door.
Shops should be setting up at movie theaters when there is a comic book movie, with related merchandise, from left over FCBD books, to books they bought too much of.
They should work with their local libraries to reach those folks checking out trade paper backs. If there are used books stores or independent book stores, they should find a way to interact with them… bring free comic book day to them and provide info on where they are and what kind of shop they are.
Shops should stop expecting Marvel and DC to make their stores profitable and put a little work into their profession.
I say that as a manager of a shop.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
A 33% price increase ($2.99 to $3.99) is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever encountered in 40 years of buying comics. I’ve started cutting titles that have made that jump, and the only ones that will survive are series that I simply can’t imagine dropping (of which, there are very few anymore). Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds, with Johns and Perez, is an example of a miniseries that I wouldn’t blink at spending $3.99 an issue for… but there aren’t many other offerings right now that hold anywhere near that much appeal to me.
I’ve survived a lot of bad periods in comics (the 1990s Speculation Boom was one of the worst) but charging $4 US (so roughly $5 Canadian) for about 22 pages of mediocre, “decompressed” storytelling (the likes of which used to be covered in about 6 to 8 pages) may finally be enough to push me out of the market. At one point I was buying between 700 and 1000 new comics a year, but am currently down to less than 350. Soon that may go all the way down to 0, or the occasional impulse purchase when I happen to find myself near the comic store.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
@thefourman You’re going to make the inflation comment as a “on its side?” REALLY?
When I was fifteen comics were $1.00 to $1.25. Then they started upping the anty HARD when comics got big in the 90s (right before they put themselves out of business, mind you.) But now, 15 years later comics are 300-400% more expensive! That’s not ‘inflation’ that’s “see what we can get away with.”
A loaf of bred from 15 years ago - 75 cents. Today 1.10.
Gallon of gas (most the time) about 80 cents - today 1.60.
Paperback book then: $5 - same type of paperback book $7-8.
The comic market has gone up MUCH, MUCH higher than the background inflation of time. If they were still at reasonable rates I’d probably still be buying them, but they’re not and they keep pulling these “events” every 5 months that if you want to read one comic you have to read them all… so… eh. That and Spider-Man has been so god-awful since “Brand New Day” that I’m ticked with them in general (don’t care about what happened there, just that the writing has been crap since then.)
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
and those 7-8 paper backs (and the price is actually much wider than that) are basically the same thing they were twenty years ago.
Comics have had to deal with rising prices of everything involved and have also gone to different paper stock and different coloring techniques to keep the customer happy.
I heard many a complaint about Vinyl Underground and Northlanders having muddy art, because Vertigo dares to print on A high grade newsprint like paper…
If the fans were interested in going back to comic paper as opposed to slick, it would be one thing, but when DC puts their omnibuses and DC Classic Libraries or JLI Hardcovers on a similiar paper, the fans whine. I am sure much the same would happen if the publishers reverted to older paper and coloring techniques.
And again, wow comics sure have gone up in the past twenty years, but what about the increases in those same product types (Books and movies, I refuse to discuss Bread and Milk economics when discussing entertainment, it is a ludicrous argument) from the thirties, when all the products were on a level playing field all around a dime to 20 cents? Novels and Movies surpassed comics long ago, but we gripe about this.
I’m not happy with the increase, but everyone acts like it is some outrageous thing. It is poorly timed and a rather large jump, but I for one don’t know all the economics behind Marvel’s decision.
Those books from the eighties and the books now have vastly different production values. To expect inflation to affect a luxery item that has gone to great lengths to produce a higher quality product (in a production sense) with the inflation of a loaf of bread is crazy. And when you are at the grocery store, notice that not all loafs of bread are 1.10, some run as high as 3 to 4 dollars as well, are those companies merely trying to get away with stuff? Or do they produce a more expensive product, meaning that its cost to the consumer cost more?
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
I am in complete agreement. I’ve already stopped buying any $3.99 Marvels, and I continue to do so. (DC has benefited from this decision.) If both companies go to that price point, it will be a signal for me to end my interest in comics (after many years). I cannot personally justify that amount for ANY 32 page comic, and I feel bad for my local retailer—who is caught in-between.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Comics do not follow the same inflationary model of, say, a gallon of milk of gasoline. Creative talent is involved, which is harder to replace (and earn a higher pay) than basic labor. More important, the costs of printing comics are not going down, while the size of the market is. So the publisher must make more money to make profit. If enough money is not made, you either raise prices, cut expenses, or give up (cancel the book).
Switching to a different paper is a thought - I’ve really not seen any real difference in quality with the paper DC uses for the Johnny DC books, and they’re 75 cents cheaper. Plus, if people are being encouraged to pick up the trades anyway, it renders the monthly less necessary to be a valuable collectible, no?
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I imagine the sudden price jump has a lot to do with the overall decrease in print ad spending that all commercial periodical publishers are seeing. A quick flip-through of Marvel and DC titles finds quite a few more in-house ads than two years ago.
$4 is nothing new to companies like Avatar, but they don’t use any external advertising, so it makes sense.
I’m no economist, but does anybody have a take on using the film division to subsidize the print division, at least as a testbed for new stories for movies? Call it the Millar method.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
@elvee
That would make sense and seems to be the way Warners runs DC already.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
thefourthman: It’s not a matter of asking DC and Marvel to make my shop profitable. That’s our job, absolutely. What we’re asking for is for them to come up with ways that all of us can continue to be profitable, and to not create a situation that drives folks out of shops in droves. I can do everything in my power to make my shop look nice, advertise and market it well and provide good selection and customer service.
What I don’t have control over are the price of books and the quality and quantity of product being produced. If Marvel and DC are spreading themselves too thin with mini-series and books that are outside the realm of what their base audience wants, and the results of that mean higher prices for shops and consumers, that’s something drives that audience away from the industry entirely.
No amount of a shops good service and marketing is going to make someone pay $3.99 for something they don’t think is worth $3.99.
Plus, is there way to not be “spam blocked” or whatever on the Blog. I do post a lot, but more than half the time I have to wait a considerable amount of time before a post actual goes through. I just get an error message telling me to turn on cookies and all that stuff that I already have turned on. Try as I might, I have yet to find a way to contact someone on the blog about this directly.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
“does anybody have a take on using the film division to subsidize the print division, at least as a testbed for new stories for movies?”
Some would argue that the only reason the comics divisions exists now is to feed the movie divisions. But alas, they’re not “really” the same company-it’s like separate companies with the same name. Like at Disney, the feature film and TV Animation divisions are actually in competition with each other to a degree. Feature didn’t want to give TV the rights to use The rescuers as a series, so TV went off and created Chip ‘n’ Dale’s Rescue Rangers.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
There have been some very valid points made here. The one that I am more interested in though is the question of whether or not Marvel/DC are responsible to make a comic book store profitable. I would have to agree with thefourthman to an extent. Yes there job is to make a profitable comic book and it is the responsibility of the store to sell it. However, if Marvel/Dc or anyone else for that matter is pricing their merchandise to the point where it will not sell then no one wins. The stores can’t move the books they stop buying them. Marvel/DC et. all take a hit too. Even if there were a valid reason for such a high increase on the price of books it really won’t matter when the wallets stay closed. The comic book companies will price themselves out of business along with the local comic book stores, because if there is no demand what will they have to sell.
I don’t think that the next big super hero movie will help them either since there are two different sets of money and companies that are involved. This is where the retailer should do some cross promotions or what not, but again if there are no comic book companies then you don’t have to worry about that too much.
I agree with the statements that they should stop printing the reprint, and the catch up if you missed books. How many minis are going at once? How many “events” that change the universe can one company have? This is the time-economically- that companies start trimming the fat and scaling back on things. If you have to stop making two or three minis and cancel yet another X-Men title or another Avengers title to keep the price down on the books that people have been buying (the strong selling titles) then that is what Marvel should be doing. Other companies across the board are doing just that. If Marvel thinks they are immune they need to start doing a little research. No company is safe nowadays. Look at Circuit City. They are out of business. Timberland is feeling the pain too along with many others. A clothing store in my town has folded too. It’s a large chain store in my home state and was one of the largest employers in the city. They had been in business for roughly twenty years.
In today’s economy both parties should be helping each other out. With the comics there are no stores and vice versa. If things were to get worse or even stay the same what would be the first thing that people would start cutting from their budget? Maybe not all their comics would go, but they may not buy as many.
With all that being said I have never thought that Marvel as a company really knew what was going on. I think for years they have been riding on the fact that Marvel zombies buy everything Marvel- from the Power Pack mini to the sixteenth on going X-Men title.
I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
>>I’m no economist, but does anybody have a take on using the film division to subsidize the print division, at least as a testbed for new stories for movies?<<
for just about the entire run to date of Quesada’s tenure as EiC, Marvel’s comics division has seen a profit according to the quarterly statements. Only recently (maybe past two quarters) have they shown a loss. They have been the most consistent in terms of quarter-over-quarter profitability, and when that dipped two quarters in a row, THAT was the sign that THIS ($3.99 covers, 29 new projects in April) was coming, and will likely be the new normal from them.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
@Thatcher..
The problem is being worked on, there is a forum for talkback in the community tab at the top of the screen. doublehelix, the admin for the site monitors that forum fairly heavily.
As to trimming the fat, that is our responsibility too. I agree that the glut from both of the big two is harmful. It would seem to me that not starting a new Wolverine Book would be a good idea, but then what do I know? I am just a lowly comic store manager.
Thing is, people will pay it. New Avengers last week was $3.99 and it was the thinnest of those books they have put out to date and it sold out quicker than ever before.
We in shops are left in an odd place where we have to generate the excitement and watch our purse strings. It is an imperfect situation, but I have lots of customers who seem unaffected by the price point, some who cut back, some jumping in feet first, some who say that’s what they have been paying for their indy books for years… It is a matter of tightening things, keeping pull customers honest and selling out quicker (reorders are always an option and we know Marvel is more than happy to reprint)…
I still don’t understand how the reprint material is harmful to their bottom line though… if you have stacks sitting on your shelf as a shop, that is your fault… otherwise, people are buying them, the Civil War one in particular was kind of genius as it alleviated some of the problems I saw trade readers having with the ancillary trades. If people are going to buy it, then they are going to have to keep making them. WWH Chronicles saw massive attrition and I don’t forsee them doing SI Chronicles, but who knows?
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
mbrady-
I think, and this is only a guess, that the print division and the film division are two separate entities. Just because Spider Man grossed a bajillion dollars does not necessarily mean that Marvel comics got a cut of the profit. I am sure they made something when Sony, or whatever studio does the movie, bought the rights to make the movie. Now that Marvel has there own studio I am willing to bet that if the print division is falling behind they could funnel money to them. If you are making SpiderMan 4 or the Black Panther and the company folds or is hit for loss after loss it wouldn’t do any good for the movie. But then again Blade was a hit when it came out and there hadn’t been a Blade comic for a long time.
It really boils down to what the contract that everyone involved with the project signed.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I have about 55 monthly comics on my pull list. Mostly Marvel/DC, but some indies
Fine — “New Avengers” sold out at $3.99.
But for me, that price increase meant I dropped Squadron Supreme (for which #7 looked like the art was worlds better than 1-6). And looking through this months Previews, I’m not going to get the new Spider-Woman at $3.99 and probably fewer and fewer *new* things at $3.99 as well.
Thor? Gone at 600.
The recently bi-weekly Punisher mini? Trade waiting *if I remember* (and I have all the Ennis Punisher books in single issues.)
Marvels: Eye of the Camera — had it on the pull until I realized it was $3.99
Quesada has yet to give a public apology for the rip-off that was Astonishing X-Men: Ghost Boxes. As such, DC will likely be the beneficiary of my comics dollar.
Maybe Marvel really thinks that they won’t lose as many sales with a 33% price increase that it can justify this. Maybe there’s some printing/price margin they are trying to drop back down to by looking to cull readers of their books.
Who knows. It would really be nice to hear from Quesada about these price increases.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
“Asking the company to raise the price to cover their business and then asking them to give the reader more content is absurd.”
Not at all. If you give a customer, say, 25 cents more product, and charge them 75 cents more for it, they’ll swallow the price increase more easily, since they feel they’re getting more for it. That’s true in any product’s case. Whether not Marvel can afford to do so isn’t the issue, it’s still a sound business move.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm
@Vinnie
You assume the price increase is just cause they want to in that statement then… I don’t think you really believe that.
I heard someone say once that a cardstock cover probably costs Marvel 15 cents, after everyone else gets a piece that means a dollar for the consumer…
I imagine that if they down graded the paper and the coverstock they could keep the price point the same, but how many customers would they loose that way.
It is a double edged sword, they are going to lose customers either way, I guess the thing is to figure out which way loses more.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:59 pm
I thought I’d been clear that I well understood why the increase was happening in my previous posts. I was merely remarking that by trying to add some value to the books, they could soften the blow of a needed increase.
I don’t know how many comics readers choose their books by the quality of the paper. I’m betting it’s a lowish number. Besides, I’m scarcely suggesting going back to newsprint or switching to butcher paper.
More than a few people have suggested the idea that the monthly be treated more like the weekly comics in Japan - cheap and disposable. If the monthlies could be brought down in price sufficiently, the average fan woul buy more titles, rather than keep the saved money in their pocket. And there might be enough left to afford a few trades to replace the monthlies.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Vinnie: I’d love to see one of the big publishers legitimately try a “phone book” approach to some monthlies. Maybe a big honkin’ thing of all Kirkman’s stuff through Image, followed by individual trades of collected arcs. Or a group of all Superman books, or X-Men things.
Of course, things like that are a risk that falls on the publisher, as opposed to the current model that puts all the risk on the retailer. I’d love to see this true anthology model tried in a real way, but I’m not really holding my breath.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:32 pm
fourthman: “So how effective is an open letter on a facebook account?”
Apparently it’s working, since you’re still replying to it.
fourthman: “Asking the company to raise the price to cover their business and then asking them to give the reader more content is absurd.”
Why? They’re already trying to justify the increase by saying that there IS more content. We’re just asking that the content not be complete BS that nobody cares about.
fourthman: “Chronicles were meant for newstands and bookstores that received no single issues of the series contained”
Really? Where were they. I never saw them outside of a comic shop, and the point that Mr. Kimmons was making is that ALL OF THAT MATERIAL was already available. If Marvel is saying that they need to raise their prices because of rising costs, why don’t they address this by not printing material that doesn’t need to be printed?
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
..
Guess what? Marvel doesn’t CARE. Marvel will happily wave good-bye to those who fail to OBEY.
They make their money from licensing and movies. Why they continue the farce called the “comic book industry” is anyones guess, but they certainly DON’T CARE about the ever-dwindling fan base or it’s viewpoint in regards to sequential art.
They’ve known since 1998 that sales were WAY DOWN from even the 1990s benchmarks and they NEEDED to DO SOMETHING. But instead they left it up to a fluctuating group of 3000 tiny shops to push their wares.
IS ANY OF THIS A SUPRISE?
Oh, yeah…someone explain why Secret Invasion was REQUIRED in order to do Dark Reign? All those issues of Secret Invasion that added up to NOTHING. Can someone explain that? Briefly?
..
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Since Vinnie already made my point, I’m just going to cut and paste the best response thus far (civil, smart and, most importantly, correct):
# Vinnie Bartilucci Says:
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
“Asking the company to raise the price to cover their business and then asking them to give the reader more content is absurd.”
Not at all. If you give a customer, say, 25 cents more product, and charge them 75 cents more for it, they’ll swallow the price increase more easily, since they feel they’re getting more for it. That’s true in any product’s case. Whether not Marvel can afford to do so isn’t the issue, it’s still a sound business move.
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:43 am
Kirth considering Brian Hibbs had to file a class action lawsuit just to get Marvel to follow Diamond’s rules on return policies, OF COURSE MARVEL DOESN’T CARE!!!!
Every con we hear the comapny being far more snide about the retailers and readers, full well knowing they’ll continue to buy their product no real question asked or no real complaints sent out, much less answered.
Its a “We’re gonna do it, and you’re gonna like it” mentality and that’s all that there is.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:24 am
If everyone has this animosity towards Marvel (perhaps not EVERYONE but I am assuming that there are more people out there that feel the same way as some on this board do) the smartest thing that you can do is to stop buying Marvel Comics. Boycott the books or cut back drastically on what you buy from them. Speaking with your wallet does wonders. I know that even saying it sounds ridiculous since the vast majority of Marvel readers are loyal to the point that it seems as if they have been brainwashed. And this is what Marvel preys on (and to a certain extant so does DC). They can p!$$ down your back, call it rain and the average Marvelite will agree with them. If people would wake up and do something then you might see something done. Maybe there won’t be a price drop, maybe there will be, maybe you will see a couple more original pages and not some reprinted garbage you never wanted in the first place.
You got to remember that this is a customer/reader based medium. If it is not something that you want speak up. Do you remember when they would splash on the pages (and they may still):
“Because you demanded it! The Return of (whoever)”
or something else that you demanded and you never really demanded it in the first place. Well, demand something now. AIm your letters and rants at someone that is in a position to do something. Debate is good. Debate on boards like this one can even be fun sometimes. However, I doubt that one person at Marvel who is in a position of power to do something comes on here and checks out the posts. And please do not say Joe Q. Yes, he is the EIC of Marvel. Fine. But he is not the end-all-be-all at Marvel. There are people over him that have more control than he does.
Those people above the EIC are the ones you need to aim your rants and letters towards. If people would stop paying 3.99 for books someone will wake up. Or at least I hope they would. Because now the books are 3.99 what happens in 6 months when they move to $4 or 4.25. If you have the same attitude you will keep paying for the garbage. Please don’t tell me that you won’t because there are too many people that will. “It’s just one more dollar” they will say or they will say “I’ll just buy for the first couple of months to see if the book is worth it.” Marvel has people convinced that their books are like heat or gas- you can’t live without it. The truth is you can live without their books, you can live out all the comic books published by all the companies. We don’t want to though, but there is no reason to be ripped off either.
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 am
Fletcher, that is the point that Matt missed with his first response… great the letter reached the blogosphere and Marvel is laughing all the way to the bank.
He would have been better served to have approached comicspro and gotten Hibbs and those folks on board and approached Marvel as a company.
Instead he whines anonymously on the intraweb and all the anonymous hordes line up to debate endlessly
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Seeing as how my letter started all this, I guess I’ll throw my two cents back in and respond to some of what’s been written here.
I wrote that letter on Saturday night as a means of venting my frustration. Not having an email address to Marvel, I sent the letter as a message through our MySpace page and then posted it on our blogs on MySpace and Facebook. And I felt better, because it has been a difficult period lately with the economy in the toilet. I honestly didn’t think it would reach anyone and I accepted that fact. My reasons for posting it on our blogs was to let my loyal customers know that I understand their frustrations with the price increases and the dilemma they face when it comes to what they can afford. I have always been honest with my customers and I believe that is one of the reasons we have succeeded thus far.
As for how successful the letter was, I imagine someone at Marvel has read it by now. Maybe not Joe Quesada himself, but someone has probably seen it.
Unlike most comic shops, we are also a DVD rental store. We have all the new releases everyone else has, but our slant is more towards the eclectic, cultish titles, with a healthy dose of mainstream fare to satisfy just about anyone. So my expenses are a little different than a shop that just does comics, trades, toys and all the standards. I’m essentially two stores in one. So I am completely aware of the fact that I have to work twice as hard to make Brainstorm profitable. And I don’t, as thefourthman puts it, snivel about it.
And I don’t want to get into an online debate with thefourthman, but I will point out, and I think other shop owners will agree, that there is a world of difference when you OWN the store as opposed to MANAGING a store. As a manager, you have that luxury of picking up the phone one day and saying, “I’m not coming in. I quit.” As owners of shops, we have to worry about finding new customers, placing orders, managing employees and doing what we can to meet sales goals. And if it stopped there, that would be fine. But we owners also have to juggle, emotionally and financially, the expenses for payroll, insurance, security systems, sales taxes, property taxes, lines of credit, utilities, rents and mortgages, garbage removal and the list goes on.
So when someone says, it is not the job of the publisher to make stores profitable, I disagree. I have opened a store to sell their product. In order to make a return on what I have spent, I need to get a good quality product from the publishers that the consumers can afford. When these people who have 20 or 30 books on their list and they get married and have babies and then lose their jobs or find themselves in foreclosure, what can ANY retailer do to keep that customer.
There are some valid and interesting ideas brought up on how to find new customers. And I may try some of them. But it doesn’t change that fact that if you have three employees, including yourself, there is only so much you can physically do. My week revolves around getting ready for Wednesday.
I try to communicate with my customers and I keep my subscriber lists updated daily. I base my orders on what people ask for. Diamond will send out an email after I place my initial order each month and it will detail what the average store my size has ordered for a particular item or title, and where I have fallen short on my order in comparison. For me, I order to sell out. That’s the goal. If I have zero to three copies of something left by the following Wednesday, then I feel like I did pretty good. If I have to reorder something, then I adjust my next initial order.
And each week I hope that I don’t have someone tell me that they just lost their job or that they have to move out of Chicago because they can’t afford to live here anymore. This past year or so we lost at least six customers to new babies.
There is no discount I could give or story that anyone could come up with or price reduction that publishers could give to offset this simple fact; LIFE HAPPENS. We have babies, we lose jobs, and we do what we can to make ends meet. And all the while we try to hold onto something that is ours just so we don’t feel like we’re completely going to be overwhelmed by it all. For any of reading this, it’s comics, in all their forms from floppies to trades.
When it becomes apparent that you can’t even afford that one thing anymore, it’s like the death of a friend. I wrote the letter with the hope that someone in charge would remember that all the way down here are the people who are spending the money. All we want is a good story that we can afford, that will give us a break from the burdens of our day. Buying the book shouldn’t be added to that burden.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
I go to Robert’s shop because he is a stand up guy. Brainstorm has a large community of friends on Facebook and even if his letter was only viewed by them, it is perfectly valid for him to post a note there. He took a pro-consumer stand which displays his genuine concern for his business and his customers. I don’t understand why people in this community attack others for pro-consumer viewpoints. You can’t all really be right-wing Republicans. thefourthman, I am tired of dismissive criticism that continually calls people expressing valid opinions “whiners”. Pot, meet kettle. I don’t know why someone else hasn’t said this, but you are kind of a dick.
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Prices go up for a lot of reasons. Paper prices go up. Ink prices go up. Ad revenue goes down. If they provide more story, they have to pay the writers and artists who get a page rate more. I agree that an extra buck for a bunch of “behind-the-scenes” crap isn’t worth it and I’d seriously consider dropping books like that. The fact is that I have subscriptions at Brainstorm that I haven’t picked up in a while. My car was smashed into and now I’ve hit a financial hard place. I keep trying to get over there but it’s just tough since it’s too cold to walk that far. Sure, I could go to the store that’s closer, but I like Brainstorm. Times are tough but if you don’t like the comics you’re buying (for whatever reason) then don’t buy them. Arguing on a comments board won’t change the prices at all. It’ll just make you angry when you read opposing view points.
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
I will say this though: Marvel sure seems to publish a lot of books that just seem to take up shelf space. And they seem to do it more than the other publishers. Hulk Red, X-Men Green, Spider-Man clones and all that bull. They have a long history of it.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm
I shop at Brainstorm and I take it as part of my responsibility to keep my local shop going. When I stopped buying Spider-Man because of Quesada’s ‘executive’ decision to ruin the best depiction of the character in his history, I looked for another book to start buying so that Robert wouldn’t feel the pinch due to his idiocy.
Take some responsibility for the industry in which you are a ‘leader’ or get the fuck out.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I started to think a little more about this after reading Robert Kimmons’ post. I do agree with you up to a certain point that the comic book companies are responsible for making a store profitable. The publishers need to make the product not only attractive, but affordable. When they jack up the price the only one losing out is the retailer. When that happens, as I stated in my other post, people stop buying. If there are no stores to sell books then how are the companies going to get their product into the hands of consumers? Sure the Barnes and Nobles and Borders will help them take the brunt of the loss, but with no independent LCS that is a huge brunt.
But this brings up another point that needs to be made. When a store buys books and they do not sell them all the store is stuck with them. I may be wrong about this (and if I am any comic book store owners out there please educate me) but you are stuck with those books. Unlike a book store who can return books and get either credit or a refund. Perhaps if Diamond’s policy on returns was changed then the stores that could not sell books could recoup some of their loss.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I know that lots of people paid the $3.99 price for Dark Avengers, and that’s fine.
I am certain that Marvel does care about its publishing business (any business would), but my point is that they are hemorrhaging many other customers—and a business can only survive so much of that.
For example, variant covers—as waste of money and I don’t buy them…. There are dozens of series that I would have bought at the lower price points (anyone hear of a Blue Marvel series? how about those fun, but now way-overpriced Franklin Richards books? the film noir books and the eye of the camera?
I bought none of those series, but I would have at $2.99.
My local comics retailer would have pocketed his share, Marvel would have had higher sales, and I would have enjoyed reading them.
…but it didn’t happen….
Is this the end of monthly comics? (If yes, some of us will be exiting this field of collecting…)
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Part of the problem with returning books that were unsold gave birth to the current model wherein the responsibility is put on the retailers. I personally have no problem with that model and I understand why it was done. That doesn’t mean that other things can’t be tried. And Marvel and DC have experimented here and there.
But…and I have said this to my customers…if a publisher is that certain a particular book will sell, even at 3.99 and with the 8 pages of Director’s Cut Extras, then give us the option to return unsold quantities. Now I realize that with that would come some restrictions and I would be fine with that. If they had an incentive program that said, “Okay, your normal order for Wolverine is 300 copies every month. If you purchase 20% over your normal order for this issue, or 60 additional copies, we will allow you to return any of that unsold quantity. But we have so much faith in this book, that we are certain you’ll sell out.”
Best case scenerio is that I would sell out of those extra 60 copies, have at least half of those add the title to their list as a permanent pull and continue to order 325 to 360 copies from then on.
When we’re ordering each month we have to be like fortune tellers. And I can tell you this much for certain. No inventory tracking program or system is going to give you that perfect number for what to order each month. Thank goodness we have the Final Order Adjustments each Thursday or I’d be sitting on a bunch of stuff that people decided at the last minute to stop picking up.
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Robert,
Seeing why you wrote the letter and who you intended the letter to be seen by changes my view of it a bit, in that sense it is appropiate and makes sense.
I didn’t necessarily mean that you were sniveling or whining, you can understand how a lot of folks in the retail business do though.
I am glad ideas were brought to the table that you would like to use, I clearly understand working to wednesday. We have three stores and I just finished a day that began at 10 am counting sorting and pulling, Now I have to transport them.
I do understand that owners are in a different position then managers, we have three stores that are in effect run by myself, my brother and the owner, we all take ownership and split much of the responsibility you were speaking of, of course, finacially that is all the owners, but we work hard to make that work for him.
You sound like you are running a good shop and know what you are doing, I am sorry that I took the letter the wrong way. Heh… part of being human. I hope we can meet someday and laugh about this.
By the way I am Lee Newman of Ultimate Comics… check out our website http://www.ultimatecomicsonline.com, you can contact me through there if you would like any help with any of the ideas I presented or I have a personal email available through my profile in talk@
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
To back this increase is beyond ridiculous i have read all the arguments including the one from the fourth man. I know that you are against the increase and that you see both sides of the issue. I know that you are comparing how everything is going up including production costs. But how can you compare really, the loss that a huge company like Marvel has to lose to what us the readers do? Yes some complain too much i get that but not here. There is legitamacy in this. I 100% agree with Robert, I was a customer and know from talking to him he is doing the best he can with his shop. That is a huge reason why I go. I have been collecting comics for 28 years and I can tell you that all small shops are in danger right now. Now is the time not to imply that people are cry babies but for you and other owners of shops to listen. Instead you choose to critisize the open letter. What you should be doing is, listening because just like that it will impact you and your livelyhood. It has to a lot of readers
February 4th, 2009 at 4:32 am
Frankly, a 33% increase is outrageous and a stupid move - we’ve all suffered in this slump Joe and a whole dollar increase means for every three books a reader buys, it’s likely they’ll carve one off the other end of their pull list to pay for them - are you naive enough to believe that trimmed fat won’t be a Marvel book?
In my mind, I’ve already laid out the ones that are nearest the edit… and some of them are longtime Marvel habit buys.
I’ve already used Batman RIP as a jumping off point for a full family of books, and it looks like Avengers might have to be next.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:50 am
Sorry, forgot to say, I’m sure a lot of thin, $3.99 purchases already done were made off the back of solicits - solicits that don’t mention ‘extras’ that bite into actual story page counts, variable quality paper stock and sometimes even TBA the creators. The figures for the thin, yet $3.99 Dark Avengers 1 were good because of pre-determined sales and indicate nothing but anticipation - the actual reaction will be felt on subsequent issues as possibly disappointed buyers start to bite back.
February 5th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Ok,
I’m a retailer in Chicago as well as a fan of comics and the industry so I’m going to start by just saying that Robert at Brainstorm is essentially correct.
Marvel is going to raise prices no matter what and I don;t think it will be long before Dc follows suit when the backlash blows over. This is the way it works. Everything costs and suckas gotta pay.
Now here’s why Robert is right:
Director’s Cuts/extra inserts do not equate quality of product. All Robert is saying is that if you want to raise the price to $3.99 then give the fans 8 more pages of actual story and make that 8 pages count.
That way, the fan walks up and drops an extra buck and goes home happy and our expense on that book is also justified.
Here’s where it falls apart:
1. Ed Brubaker and Brian Michael Bendis cannot write ever book Marvel produces. We all know which books are good and we know why. Quality goes in and quality comes out. I can sell Captain America to blind people at $4.50 a shot because my customers can trust that Marvel is bringing the fire with that book almost every month.
Robert is talking about an issue of risk, which we as retailer have to assume before any customer does.
Examples from Feb 09 Marvel Previews:
New Avengers: The Reunion #2 - I don’t remember the comics world asking for Mockingbird back and I’m not sure that it’s worth an extra buck to see she and Clint Barton catch up.
All New Savage She Hulk #1 - Really…
Franklin Richards: April Fools - Guys, I have a decent and well regard kids section but parents of these kids look at price like no one else…
Marvel Asst-sized spectacular #1 & #2 - Not at $3.99
Exiles #1 - I love Jeff Parker’s work but $3.99 for a property that has never really burned itself in the minds of a wide audience.
The Destroyer #1 - Love Kirkman but this solicit is Frank Castle with leukemia and customers will know it too.
There are other examples but like I said, it comes down to risk. As a retailer, I have to weigh this and I’m going to decide (as I have been doing) not shelve a good chunk of the Marvel Offerings (though I’ll order any requested by Pulls).
The real issue Marvel is making us decide is one that is actually worse than the price increase. Marvel can put out as many books as it wants but honestly, I only have so much room for this stuff and like Marvel, I’m all about the Market share. I know that ordering Marvel Triple Action and The Index to the Marvel Universe at $5.99 and $3.99 respectively, are going to impact my ability to shelve product by publishers not named Marvel or DC. I have one of those shops where it’s just not worth it to me at all to give up shelf space to books like Dead Irons, Rasl, 3 Geeks or Echo just so Marvel can pat iotself on the back about stuff it’s already published.
Lee, you are also correct. Fans will bitch. Fans bitched when comics went from .20 to .25 cents. It’s written in the fan code. Fans will also decide to not take a chance on She Hulk the Barbarian and wait instead for the tpb which is fine for a shop like mine with my business model but harder for Robert, who is really just asking for more of a vote of confidence from the publisher but allowing him to return a certain number of copies when the inevitable happens and his customers decide to stick with what they know and avoid paying for SOME of the increased prices of books like New Avengers, which is NOT a $3.99 comic no mattter what anyone tries to tell me.
There.
Terry
February 5th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
I think that the ultimate question is not why did Marvel raise the prices on their books. All we have to do is look around and see that the economy is going down the drain. Prices on things go up and the buck is passed down the line. But why does Marvel keep putting out books like the ones that Doc Midnight mentioned. Here is a retailer, and I am sure he is not the only one, that has said they will not buy certain Marvel books. Instead of raising the prices why not cut the books that are not going to sell or not sell as high as another book and concentrate on the books that will sell. Not only can Marvel keep the prices down, but they can concentrate on ….*gasp*… making better stories. Like I mentioned in another post do we really need yet another Avengers title or mini series? Can’t you tell that same story in the ongoing title? Sure you can. Multiple story lines occur in other mediums (films, books, television) and we do not need spin offs to let us know what is happening in the over all picture of things. These spin offs are a way for Marvel,Dc and others companies to make more money. However, if people are not buying those books and you have to raise your prices across the board you run the risk of sales going down on other books. I really do think that Marvel is banking on the fact that there are a lot of people out there that will buy every Marvel title regardless of price, story or art. Of course they are right. Why else would the term “Marvel Zombie” have been coined in the first place. But when the economy is bad what would be the first thing that people start cutting out? Things like comic books. I don’t need comic books to live, but I need electricity. Sure you are not going to stop buying comics all together. You make a budget or whatever you have to do so that you can still have some entertainment in your life. Instead of buying 30 Marvel titles a month you have to cut back to 20 or 15. If Marvel was smart enough they would understand that. I would hope to whatever higher power there is that someone in their organization understands that, but you keep seeing more and more titles coming out. Something will give out eventually. Something will have to change.
I still do not understand why Diamond and the publishers have things the way that they are set up. No returns? Returns only on certain things? I have a friend who worked for Andersen News company for years. When we were roommates he would bring home stacks of magazines without the covers. They were returns from retailers that sent them back at the end of the month when the newer issues would be put out on the newsstand. Comics too, not just magazines. The retailer got credit for unsold merchandise. Why is the opposite true for comics? Because they are “collectibles?” Because of the back issue market. If the retailer wants to keep the unsold issues for back issues let them. But I don’t see Diamond doing this ever. They really don’t have to do anything since they are the only ball game in town. If they doesn’t say “monopoly” nothing does.
I am not a retailer so I really don’t have a dog in the hunt, but I do like my comics. However, I like other things more and as the prices start going up I stop buying titles. If just the people that have posted stop buying some titles as they have said they are going to do will that effect Marvel? More than likely not. However there are a lot of people who don’t post and will stop buying. I will be interested in seeing how this will hurt or help Marvel. I was thinking that people would just wait for the tpb like I would do with Cerebus, but if no one is buying the book odds are low that there will be a tpb.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Fletcher,
The reason this model exists in terms of what publishers publish is because the majority of comics buyers don’t actually vote with their wallets. They complain for sure but they still spend money. Even as the economic news comes to us as low and depressing, folks still come to our shops (luckily for us) and if we’ve planned properly, we can direct them and their dollars to better values. This is what I do and it pays off.
I’ve wondered about the return policy but I can see the benefit to Diamond immediately. Diamond isn’t in business to save us from our poor decision making. Diamond is in business to sell us product at wholesale prices. We retailers need to be better educated about what is reasonable for us to be able to move and notice when product is being pushed which doesn’t serve our needs. We need to look for new markets to take advantage of if we’re to survive.
I don’t entirely blame Marvel for putting extra titles out. I partially will blame them when then inevitable happens and our industry starts looking all one dimensional again in the shops. They produce these titles because just enough customers out there have been trained to buy books with “Character X” on the cover. They do it to get up and coming creators some work. They do it for all sorts of reasons but I don;t have to play along if it’s actually going to hurt my business.
If my customers will ultimately choose to drop titles due to an economic crunch, It’s a 50/50 chance at this point that they’ll drop a 2.99 title and keep a 3.99 title. This is how customers have pretty much always behaved. A lot of people I know dropped X-Factor at some point in the past but I sure sold out of that Dardevil and Captain America One Shot that came in at $5.99 if I’m not mistaken
Did that really need to cost $5.99? I don’t think so but I made money on it and didn;t really bitch. I did make sure that I’d only ordered what I could sell in a reasonable amount of time and reduced my order of X-Factor accordingly.
It’s what we do. Can someone tell me though why, when X-Factor is collected, it warrants an HC we before a TPB? This is an issue that once again makes it a little harder to truly serve that “I’ll wait for the trade” market (I know the answer to the question but it just speaks to Robert’s original point).
Terry Gant
Third Coast Comics