At not responding to this rancid bit of idiocy. I have no excuse, you’ll just have to forgive me.
Let’s start at the top, shall we?
more babes with superpowers.
Yeah, that’s exactly what all women wish for. More characters chosen solely for their sex appeal. It’s all about the “babe”-alciousness, ladies, didn’t you know?
It’ll never work simply because men and women have different interests.
Clearly, it’s the Y chromosome that makes one like men in tights, right? It’s a total dude thing. Women, well, we don’t like action. It must be true. A guy told us!
Catching bad guys is not a common female fantasy. Ask most women which movies they’re most looking forward to in 2009 and odds are that it’ll be something starring Julia Roberts.
Because he’s done the years of Kinsey-esque psychological research to figure out what women fantasize about, right?
why are we so dead set on forcing women to get interested in movies about beating people up? There’s something unintentionally sexist about it, it’s as if we’re saying women’s interests are somehow inherently inferior, and to be validated they must instead find ways to be more like men.
OK, our boy does have a point here. There’s nothing wrong with traditionally “feminine” interests. Women’s interests are not inherently inferior–Twilight isn’t inherently worse than Batman comics, as I argued before. I rail against the devaluation of the feminine plenty. But it’s not a good excuse for this guy to tell women what they like and dislike. Sorry, no.
Of course some women actually are interested in superheroes, just as there are guys out there who are really into touchy-feely musicals. Most of them are British, but even here in America you’ll occasionally run into a guy with a twisted love of Mamma Mia!. Sure you’ll see women at Comic Con dressed up as Wonder Woman. But you’ll see a lot more men dressed up as Batman. And unlike those women, none of the guys are being paid by booth owners just to stand around and slut it up. Nothing draws a nerd crowd quite like exposed female skin. There are exceptions to any rule.
See, here we go again. First of all, he admits that yes, some women do like superheroes! Win! Then he makes fun of men who like traditionally feminine things (what happened to that “unintentional sexism,” buddy?). And it’s all downhill from there. Women dressed as Wonder Woman are “sluts,” are they? Women who dress as Wonder Woman are clearly just getting paid to appeal to men.
This reminds me of the endless arguments I’d have with my ex about my clothing. His assumption was always that whatever I was wearing, it was there to appeal to men, not because I possibly enjoyed it. (But that’s personal, and y’all don’t want to hear it.)
Also, if dressing like Wonder Woman is only for the male gaze (as he notes earlier in the piece), then why on earth would women WANT to identify with her? The fact is that Wonder Woman does appeal to the male gaze, yes, but she also appeals to women who like to feel strong AND sexy, and yes, who might like the idea of having that lasso around to go after the “bad” guys…
Ahem.
And of course, “Nothing draws a nerd crowd like exposed female skin.” Here we go again ripping on the male fans just as much as the female fans. Because you know all comics fans are nerds who never get laid, so they have to get all excited about females dressed in costume, right?
So go ahead, make more movies about female superheroes. Just don’t make them with an eye towards entertaining women. Make them for men.
Because all the women asking for more female superheroes don’t actually know what they want.
Quality movies like Sex and the City are all too rare, and its success over the summer proved what needs to be done. Stop trying to force feed women what men want, and consider giving them what women want instead. We don’t need more female superhero movies, we need more movies for females.
I’m fairly sure that he han’t actually seen Sex and the City. For one thing, well, guys aren’t into movies for girls, right? For another, well, it wasn’t very good. (Yes, I saw it. I also saw Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, and The Dark Knight, all of which were actually good.)
Anyway. I’m fairly certain that this whole post was nothing more than troll-bait. That Josh Tyler knew he’d get lots of responses like this one, and lots of hits and links back. And if I didn’t know that there were people out there who actually do think like this, well, I wouldn’t have given him the satisfaction.
But the thing is, we do need more female superheroes. And less gender essentialism. Or rather, less biological essentialism. Tyler’s right, we do need to treat “things for women” as if they’re just as valid as “things for men.” But we also have to break down the wall that says that the guy who likes Mamma Mia! is “twisted” and that women don’t fantasize about beating up bad guys (or enjoy beating things up, period).
My hot pink boxing gloves can attest to the fact that women can enjoy action and kicking ass AND girliness. So can the success both on TV and in comics of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena, as well as the long-lasting love for Wonder Woman.
Hell, even in Twilight, Bella notes, “I want to be Superman, too.”
When Fangirls Attack have a ton of links to responses to this.
January 17th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Wow, Sarah… I’m (mostly) speechless after reading that nimrod’s article. It’s not like I’ve never made an off-color joke in my life, but this is just incredible.
I can apologize, on behalf of men everywhere, for that guy’s idiocy?
January 18th, 2009 at 2:33 am
Anyone who thinks that genetics determines someone’s interests is in desperate need of help, I think.
January 18th, 2009 at 6:30 am
Shaun,
Please do not apologize for me, he may have not expressed his idea well but his logic is spot on..
January 18th, 2009 at 7:37 am
yeah, they should make a movie that 2% of theatre going women, and maybe 30% – 50% of theatre going men will see to prove that comics are “equal”.
[WW doesn't count, as she is too awesome to tank at the b.o.]
January 18th, 2009 at 7:56 am
You know, stupidity like this really surprises me. “Don’t try to force feed girls what men want”? what is this, the 15th century? are there any laws that state that girls HAVE to watch superhero movies? Similarly, where does it say that liking musicals is unmanly?
If a girl wants to watch and like a superhero movie, thats what she sould do. Same goes for a guy and a musical.
I don’t know what Josh Tyler’s intention was when writing this article, but i can’t picture any sane human being supporting this pile of S#^%.
January 18th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I have nothing useful to add to this conversation.
January 18th, 2009 at 10:21 am
we’ll pull that out, but as always, Google ads are keyed to keywords that they choose as well as the individual’s browsing and cookies…
that aside, how did the quiz turn out? Are you?
January 18th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Like you don’t already know the answer to that
January 18th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Fine, Peter… You can be as naive, chauvenistic and (yes) ILLogical as Mr Tyler is.
January 18th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Peter, you give “logic” a bad name. Please stop trying to evoke it.
January 18th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
There are valid points in the article that are being missed entirely. Did you read Twilight… it is the most chauvinistic and sexist piece of female oriented literature out there. The main character is all about being protected and constantly throws herself into harmful situations just so she can be saved by someone. Then, when he leaves (because its too dangerous) she gets way to emotion and writes nothing in her “journal” for three months.
There are differences in gender roles. Im not saying that those roles have to be set in place. But there is psychological evidence about the fantasies and desires relating to the differences between the two sexes. As stated, there is some overlap. But, men like to reinvent themselves in their dreams into someone entirely new, while females more often then not create a new reality around themselves where they are the princess (taken from gaiman).
Although women may view Buffy and Xena as strong female characters, I guarantee a majority of the audience was male or Whedonites.
There is no denying the lack of success in female comic characters. Something should be done to change this because I believe there could be a future in it… but it may just involve changing alot about the world and how to raise our children.
January 18th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
The lack of successful female comic characters is indeed unfortunate…..but articles like Mr. Tyler’s do nothing to solve this problem, do they? There have been a number of strong female leads in comics in recent years(like Deena Pilgrim in Powers for example or Peter David’s Fallen Angel) but they don’t seem to interest neither boys nor girls. They certainly do not seem to get the same amount of respect as male superheroes.
January 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
Waitaminnit? What female Superhero movies HAVE been done as of late? Aside from Rom-com Super-Exgirlfriend and years ago film Supergirl, I can’t quite remember any female superheroine getting her own movie? What on blazes is he even talking about? Is this some trend that has gone by me?
I mean, I don’t think it’s an overdone genre in a way there can be, like more than one IN A SINGLE YEAR!
January 19th, 2009 at 3:14 am
batzarro:
catwoman and elektra.
perhaps if the screenwriters focus on character or substance rather than the sex of a person, we can look up to a character, male or female.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:30 am
So…
Catwoman
Elektra
Supergirl
My Super Ex-Girlfriend.
Begs the question: did these movies fail because they were superhero movies for women, or because they were crap?
January 20th, 2009 at 4:14 am
it’s a shame that gender generalizations still come up and that we still place people in gender roles. [least this moron did it in spades]
What is sad is that there is a lack of CONTENT related to Women in a super hero fashion.
[i'm more focusing this toward Mr. Wesley's reply now, which might have some baring on all of this. And expanding edc's reply as well.]
-perhaps what’s the real deal is that it comes down to who’s writing what, and what their goal is to achieve with the character.
Some questions to consider:
What is the character’s point/journey/state of being have to do with us? Does the character being female, effect how they approach a situation? Do they face bias? What do their foes think of them as an adversary? Is gender important to the character? All these things are important to WHAT and WHO the character is. If the character is merely to fill in a “quota” of having a female protagonist, then it can be very shallow and borderlining on pure gender stereotype [and even solely as a sex-object/eye candy]. -And if we make the character overtly feminine and caring, we lose the ability for the character to act as a “super hero” type of personality. Tricky tasks to meet from a writers point of view, especially if a writer isn’t a female [not to say that men can't write convincing females, but they always say that you should always write what you know.]
It’s a hard balance, but I don’t know of many female characters who are done with care to make a fully realized woman super hero.
Actually me and my best friend we’re having this conversation not to long ago. We’re actually quite interested in making a female super hero, who isn’t about being on “the rag”, or managing a family- but somebody who is strong and who has more purpose than being “eye-candy.” [though nothing wrong with looking sexy!]
Anyways just a few additional thoughts I wanted to add to this conversation.
Sorry if i rambled.
January 20th, 2009 at 7:21 am
Spooky at least you and your best friend has had INTELLIGENT conversation about this subject. With a lot of places I notice, gender in sci-fi/comics usually degrades into the lowest common factor rather quickly.
Female Lead Heroes can work if they get the right vehicle. Bionic Woman, Xena, the Charmed ladies, Alias, Buffy, Wonder Woman all worked on their shows because of the tone and manner of story fit the character.
Come on a Black Widow “James Bond’ type film or a majestic WW live action film would kick all sorts of ass.
January 20th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Another aspect of this whole thing that has been glossed over: How stupid does this guy thing MALE readers are, that somehow female superheroes only exist to appeal to women? Apparently none of us are allowed to be interested in characters that don’t look and act just like us? I think I have more in common with the girl at the supermarket than I do with the guy in “Superman.”
August 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Like very many other people I was desperate for help, for signs, for God…K Love once again has bless me.After been married for 16 yrs my ex-husband abandond me and my kids left me alone. I have built so much resentment and become so defensive that I not only disrespect my currently boyfriend I have disrecpect myself.Impatient, intorelant,Insecure…etc….describes me I had a bad start of a yr but I feel like this is a 2nd chance for me.Thank you. So help me God and Bless everyone on this challenge.