Ray

Agreed.

I was thinking something like the old “Nightstalker” TV show, but in this case, the very capable lady cop has an extra suprise — but only pulls it out when absolutely necessary. Would love to see characters like Daimon Hellstrom, Lilith – Dracula’s Daughter, Satana and Brother VooDoo guest star.

I really do like the idea of focusing on Greer more than the Tigra aspect. That was the one good thing about her appearance in New Avengers — it showed her as Greer (though I don’t think Bendis had any idea that even as Greer — Tigra is not without enhanced abilities).

With all of the grief the Initiative has given her, I think it’s time she left the world of full-time super hero. It just isn’t working for her.

I agree completely that women and men should be treated equally in comics. The problem isn’t that Bendis wrote a man beating up a woman, it’s that he continually chooses to do it in the most shocking and degrading way possible. I don’t think railing against that fact reinforces the notion that “women are weaker”; I think what Bendis is implicitly saying when writing this scene is “women ARE weaker, and they ARE victims, and this is what happens to them when they play with the boys.” She’s a superhero too, did we forget that? So what makes her this damsel in distress? A vagina? Ovaries? A menstrual cycle? If the Red Hood broke into Spider-Man’s apartment, would Bendis write him as a sniveling coward? Or would he say some snarky comment before fighting off the (SECOND RATE) villains? Having a feral half animal/half woman superhero, who was once on the AVENGERS, act like a 14 year old girl at the site of bad guys and a gun… well, that’s out of character. And I hate talking about characters “being out of character” because I swear to god there is nothing on this planet that is more nerdy and lame. However, when it deals with serious issues in society like sexism I think it should be addressed, just like it should be in any other form of media and pop culture. You bring up Sabretooth almost raping Psylocke; well, I’ve never read the story, but why the hell would she be a victim there? Psylocke was one of the toughest characters on the X-Men. Just because Sabretooth is ruthless or “amoral” doesn’t mean she couldn’t hold her own. You’re implying that just because he is a man he will always be in a position to dominate Psylocke, a woman, and that is a big leap from “realism” to sexism.

As mentioned by a previous poster, your Bobby Drake vs. Jessica Drew comparison is so off-base that it makes me wonder if you could even grasp this argument. But the point is this: Yes, there should be a line. There should be a line you don’t cross, and if he wants to write all that bullshit “shocking” material just for the sake of being shocking he can go work on a Marvel MAX series and stop wasting my time with sexist, patronizing nonsense.

But, here’s the thing: she’s comic book pop art eye candy. She’s hardly a character and barely even a tiger (more like a fuzzy orange supermodel). I would be hard pressed to care about a story that makes her seem more “real.” Her appearance excludes her from street work but is not extreme enough to actually seem threatening.

As a supporting character I just want to see her respected like the senior Avenger she is. Maybe it’s time for her to appear in a mentor role in A:I. Those who can’t do teach but the impact of a good teacher is exponential. The Initiative is the perfect place to hi-light this.

Oh, and have her hook up with Gauntlet.

To tell the truth, I never even knew Tigra existed until I saw pics from the Marvel Mangaverse back in the early 2000s…and let’s say I fell for her in that sense. She fit perfectly in that world: spunky, cute, tough and a catgirl who was rather well written. I never bought the book but I just felt she belonged there in some way or another. It was that sort of thing that made me research a bit more about the character…and I saw both the potential and the abuses she had been through over the years upon doing so. In a way, Greer has a lot of potential that just was never lived up forcing her into the 2nd tier of the Marvelverse or just one of the “background heroes”. From her groundbreaking years as “The Cat” in the early 70s through her mutation into the “were-woman” and her partnership with heroes from Werewolf by Night to the Fantastic 4 to being a crucial player in the classic “West Coast Avengers” lineup, Greer has shown herself both to be capable and powerful but also unafraid to let her womanly charms do the talking. But unfortunately she really hasn’t had the best of luck with her situation, going from capable writers to crappy ones who just use her because “she’s a name a couple people can sympathize if crap happens to her”. (see Bendis’ stunt in making her the Hood’s victim) She really doesn’t have too much of a backing cast outside other heroes, with a lot of who or what she is changed or retrofitted here or there and never really developed.

If I were to write for Tigra, I guess I have a few things that I wouldn’t mind doing, at least to develop her and Greer a lot more:
1. Bring back Greer and the “were-woman” aspect: I know a lot of people seem to think that being a hero 24/7 is cool, but sometimes the best dynamics and stories involve the duality of living both as a hero and a civilian with a job and a life. Somehow while Tigra is pretty much established as a full-time heroine by many, Greer herself and all that she has, from her humanity to her skills and abilities on the job (whether a cop or detective) could bring back an interesting aspect to her character. In a way, it would be like rediscovering She-Hulk as Jennifer Walters: sure she’s green, muscular and Bruce’s cousin…but she can also use her mind as well as her body to fight. And let’s face it: both sides can easily help one another: Greer may need Tigra’s animal skills to solve her problems or assist her when needed while Tigra may need Greer’s sharp, justice-driven mind to determine whether what she is doing is right, questioning and helping her gain more dimension.
2. Create a world upon which both characters can thrive without being part of “The Universe”: While Tigra essentially is just another player in the Marvelverse at large, she’s essentially just like every other hero without a real book or a real story: lost and waiting for someone to create it. With Greer’s cop-training, I could see her grounded in a police force with the many stories that this can bring. Considering that most of the time cops in comics are seen as expendable or just assisting the heroes, having her being a cop and one of the heroes could bring about new conflict and stories that look at a unique aspect of being a hero on both sides. But the situations and the people should be dynamic: from coworkers to the people she comes across on the streets to those of whom she faces.
3. Make the threats that she faces credible: From what I’ve seen, Tigra seems very much a street level hero (or a bit more) who could have good interactions with a colorful or interesting subcast whether it be regular thugs, crime gangs or even the occasional supervillain who is working alongside said crime gangs as hired muscle. While she really has no true recurring threat (outside some loser villains, her origin connected with HYDRA which nearly every Marvel hero has problems with, and the usual, typical choice of Kraven), that doesn’t mean she can’t have unused villains or even new ones who direct a threat whether as a cop or as a tigeress. But that doesn’t mean she can’t face an occasional problem outside her realm, from the supernatural to something much more out there.
4. Remember her “supernaturality”: while Greer is a hero at heart, Tigra was particularly created within the “monster” side of the comics in the 1970s. While I really don’t seeing her fighting Dracula with Blade or hanging out with Man-Thing, she is still a supernatural character and can deal with matters both with her own duality and with the spookier side of the Marvelverse. (though I could see her and Werewolf By Night rehooking up…)
5. Try to develop her world further: like many heroes and heroines at Marvel, Tigra has a whole world that just remains untapped in her uniqueness. Aside from being a were-heroine, she also has connections with the Cat People, which while writers probably have ruined some aspects of them could easily be changed or developed to integrate them further in the tales. (particularly if she is a legacy of another Tigra and potentially could be a “mother” of a whole new generation if done right) There are faces from her past that could easily be brought back correctly and new ones who could be created and developed to evolve Greer’s mythos further.
6. The most important one of all: don’t think that it can’t be done, cause it can and has! While Greer/Tigra were languishing in second and third-tier oblivion, one of the most popular indie/smaller comics of the last couple decades has been “Gold Diggers” by Fred Perry, of which one of the main characters…is a werecheetah. Britanny Diggers has in many ways what Greer Grant Nelson deserves and while should be an inspiration (well without literally stealing) that werewomen (and catgirls) can be done in the mainstream successfully.

All in all, while I don’t know if anything I say is the right thing, I think Greer and Tigra are just too precious and interesting for Marvel to waste as they have been.

I think the next few months with Tigra will indeed be interesting – because of the way her story interacts with Hank Pyms. Hank gets kidnapped and imitated by the Skrulls and his wife gets killed, at the same time Tigra falls for Hank and gets impregnated by him – essentially being raped by the Skrulls. Imagine having to interact with the real Hank after that? Add to that – interacting with a grieving Hank, who is falling in love with a computer copy of his dead wife’s memories ( ie- Jocasta ). There’s a whole book that can be done just with that, let alone a subplot. I think the next year will be very interesting.

How would I do Tigra? First of all, I’d remove her from the superhero community completely. A were-tiger woman is a cool concept – but loses it’s weirdness, what makes it cool – whe she’s sharing panels with Gods, mutants and guys that crawl walls and spin webs. I’d place her in a tough local neighbourhood ( say in urban NYC or Baltimore ) and show how someone different like her interacts with so-called regular people. For someone with this “weirdness” to her character – her interactions with others almost seems normal or mundane, almost as if she’s just wearing a costume instead of being this cat-woman being.

IMO, anyway!

Gail

So where do you draw the line? I don’t think there should be one. Especially when dealing with characters like the Hood. People in the real world are evil, and that should be reflected. I don’t think things like rape should ever be dealt with lightly in comics, but I don’t think they should be shied away from. The question arises when does it become a ‘for sales’ move or an in character move. Well people will cry sales over anything, so I think it’s not up to the audience to really judge that since everytime a death occurs- whether it serves the story or not, whether it’s a logical progression of plot or no-some one cries that it’s a sales booster. I think it fall on the writer to show the true ramifications of the act on both the victim and the perpetrator. It needs to be a move that the character would actually make. Some one like Sabretooth nearly raping Psylocke? Well that was in character, as he’s literally and truly amoral.
I think that when people begin to say ‘That sort of thing shouldn’t be dealt with IN COMICS’ it sets us back. Comics are a literary format and should be allows the same freedoms as other literary formats. Simply because children read them, that doesn’t make comics inherently FOR CHILDREN. Yes I think there are going to be restraints made with some of the books by editorial for the sake that the books are popular with a younger audience. But restraint doesn’t mean storyline castration. I applaud Bendis and now Gage for their writing and I’ll still continue to read.

I love Tigra ever since I discovered her in Giant-Sized Chillers. The Christina Z was the best mini that did her justice. Unfortunately, the over-hyped hacks of Marvel (I’m pointing at you Bendis) have turned her into a punching bag/soap opera character. It’s bad enough great, long-standing characters like Wasp get bumped off in the worst way possible without any respect to her fans or her history. But what has happened to Tigra is criminal.

I agree with a lot of the posts here on many topics. She needs a new costume, one that is more functional and stylish. She DEFINITELY needs a better writer to get her back on track, not some butt monkey that is in it for a paycheck. She has so much potential and its being wasted by guys who have no clue on how to write her (on in Bendis case, clueless on writing anyone else for that matter).

First off, kill the Skrull offspring she’s got and lets get her back on track. This ain’t Young and the Restless, soap operas are dead folks. Second, she needs to come to grips with what has happened to her in the past year or so. Does she blame herself for selling out Cap which led to his death? Have all of her “mistakes” been means to punish herself for going with the Initiative? If so, she needs to get out and find herself. She could leave the country and re-discover herself, both her human and cat self. Also, play up on her powers. Can she get stronger exponentially like Jennifer Walter did in her human form to increase the strength of She Hulk (A trait Dan Slott brought up but has not been put into better use)? If she’s a shape-shifter, couldn’t she also change the colors of her fur like camouflage (I.E. turn her fur colors dark gray and black to blend into the shadows)? Next, she needs to either go solo or join a team or make one of her own. My best bets are Dan Slott’s Mighty Avengers, the new Lady Liberators, or a new team that she brought together to take down the Hood’s organization (could also bring in characters that have been put on the back-burners or done poorly). Tigra has so much potential, its high time that she’s given a better chance to live up to it.

btw, has anyone else noticed Bendis utter hatred for most of the Marvel women (Scarlet Witch, She Hulk, Wasp, Tigra, Spider-Woman). Oh yeah, she brought back Mockingbird but that’s like saying he saved the cutest baby from a burning hospital and left the rest of them to die since they didn’t live up to his standards. Thank god he doesn’t write Amazing Spider-Girl. Lord knows what he might do to Mayday.

Mr. Q (yeah, I got issues)

Most comic book characters you can’t relate to. They don’t need to be relatable but well written.”

I don’t have a magic ring on my finger, no adamantium claws, no super-soldier serum in my veins, wasn’t born on Krypton, not filthy rich, can’t run at the speed of light…it goes on and on. The only really relatable character I’ve ever read is Spider-Man, and that’s because he has problems that everyone has (women trouble, no money, etc). Characters just need to be written well.

Since she is a demon of sorts I would have her be a mystic detective in San Fran. Witches guest star, Dr. Strange. Werewolf by Night, the Shroud, possibly Moon Knight, etc.

How can I relate to Wolverine? I haven’t lived a hundred years or gotten kidnapped by a mysterious organization.

Most comic book characters you can’t relate to. They don’t need to be relatable but well written.

http://www.unheardtaunts.com/wir

The same as all the rest of marvel: get rid of Quesada, Bendis and Millar!

I would say, give her a mini. Make it a Dark Reign book to boost sales, and because, to be honest, that’s what the Hood is up to nowadays. Tigra’s mother dies under mysterious circumstances and she suspects that the Hood and his gang, and as she goes after him and his cronies, she begins to uncover the stuff that the Hood is into with Doom & co., making herself into Public Enemy #1. A little bit of mystery and a lot of action, Tigra kicking ass and getting revenge.

All she needs is some positive public attention and set-up to future stories. The character isn’t even remotely broken – she’s just been in the hands of writers who either don’t care about her or don’t like her, and who see her as little more than a plot point to get to their pet characters’ cool moments.

Have her go a a voyage of self discovery visiting these disparate places…..Avoid the capes and tights crowd who have abused her of late. It could be an Action/Adventure – Horror – Tomb Raider/Underworld type mini.

And I thought Gage did right by her in the recent Initiative book (well as much as he could). Come on….how else do you expect her to react ESPECIALLY with the history of abuse/current situation/her fears about Pym???

anyway SUCH an easy character to fix! Play up the magic stuff for gods sake! the magic in marvel is a disaster right now, hopefully with this new quest for a sorcery supreme or whatever things will change for the better. I feel this is an easy character to power up with the talismans and such, or maybe do something similar to what J.m.s was doing with spidey and spider totems, i think that whole idea would work MUCH better here in creating a solid long term character. This is character most people love or at least want to love but the storys just arent giving her her due.

Many writers have treated Tigra as a joke — possibly stemming back to the why Jim Shooter treated the character in Avengers (the same guy who had Hanky Pym become a wife beater). As someone above said — her best stories were NOT in Avengers.

Bendis doesn’t like the character — and his writing shows it. He used her a sex toy for Cho to draw — and used her again as someone the Hood could take down — and have Tigra react as a hapless damsel in distress. And thank you Mark Millar and Civil War for making Tigra a traitor to Cap — after he alone attended her graduation from the police academy.

As referenced above, the Christina Z. and Mike Deodato mini-series laid a good foundation for the character. Unfortunately, it’s been ignored by most writers who have used her since then. The 2004 mini was a good bridge back to her days as a formidable character in Marvel Chillers. Any writer who has the desire to elevate the character back to good form should refernce those issues. Frankly, I wouldn’t mind seeing her as a darker character in a more monster-oriented milieu again.

I understand why some writers want to explore the sexual nature of the character — but even cats aren’t in heat all of the time. If no one can make good use of the Tigra character, maybe she should just go back to being the Cat or even Greer Grant, “Lady Cop”.