Ok, i’m glad that was cleared up cause in my mind, i was thinking between the ages of 12-15. I agree that kids between 5-10 wouldn’t understand the complex storylines that are taking place.

Scott Christian Sava

I really don’t follow the numbers of comics sold each month so i really can’t say if it’s dying or not. I’m just speaking for myself that i really can’t go and spend $15 on a trade. Also, how would the trades be presented? If companies got rid of the floppies, would i have to spend $15 each to get thor, batman, or whatever titles i want. Doing that would break my bank. I spend around $25 a month on titles. I don’t want to spend over $100 for the original trades. However, personally, i think monthlies will be around for a long time cause if i’m complaining about it, i’m sure there are more fans who are just like me.

Scott Christian Sava is right that I’m talking about youngsters that are in grade school, not junior high or high schoolers.

Even if your right that youngsters do indeed read comics, why don’t the numbers show that? Why is the majority of the demographics considered 18-35 year old males with an affinity for geek culture?

As Scott pointed out, we’ve moved away from kids 23 years ago. WATCHMAN was the start of it, but it really happened in 1986 with Frank Miller’s BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

It was one thing for Alan Moore to take obscure Charlton Comics characters and remix it with very mature themes, it was entirely revolutionary moment when an established American icon such as Batman went from every kid’s innocent-minded superhero to a complex anguish old man having a mental breakdown wearing the Batman cowl.

Miller basically let it be okay to turn children’s developed characters into hardcore complex grown-ups. As great as the book was, it should’ve never been published. Miller should created a brand new character or at very least made a riff of Batman much like what many consider Midnighter of Wildstorm to be.

Making Batman complex and grown up was never the intention of the 70 year old character which had many years of continuity aimed at youngsters.

The biggest problem publishers created was maturing their characters which were firmly entrenched as kids reading material. They should’ve created brand new superheros with seperate continuity for adults. DC’s Vertigo came way too late and pigeon-holed them into horror genre. IMAGE came 10 years late, because by then the entire superhero genre grew up and kids bailed because collectors because adults and cover prices were no longer targeted to kids.

For comics to attract kids they need to revert the entire DC line into animated shows and convince mature readers to actually pick up mature titles like HELBLAZER or THE AUTHORITY. Both of those titles could easily appeal to a mature Batman or JLA fan.

The kind that watch Batman Brave and the Bold or Power Rangers (like my 5 year olds).

Anyone who handed a 5 year old Sandman or any current comic of Batman should honestly be taken away from their kids…

Comics are not for kids. They haven’t been for almost 20 years now.

Another reason why comics are failing…but probably best left for another discussion.

Needless to say…while collectors like yourself still love the monthlies…you’re a dying breed.
I say that with the utmost respect (as a former collector as well). It’s sad…but true.

As I mentioned earlier…I miss spinner racks. That’s what I grew up on. Talk about accessability.

My mom would drop me off at the spinner rack and do her shopping for groceries. I’d read everything there. Completely enthralled.
When she’d be ready to check out…I’d get to pick my favorite and take it home.

That’s comic shopping.

But that’s when comics were still accessable for kids. We’re talking early 70′s.
Yes…I’m an old fart.

I just wanted to point out, for me, that when i was a kid i was reading SANDMAN by neil gaimen and other mature comics. So i don’t buy that kids don’t read comics that are way above young readers heads. I’m sure there are a lot of kids that don’t understand the current batman storyline but i’m sure there are kids who understand the storyline that is going on.
And, sure, the dark knight wasn’t for kids but i know a lot of kids who saw it and loved the movie.

First, lets get this out the way. Kids don’t read comics especially established characters like Batman. I’m not saying they don’t like the character, I’m simply saying the current writing style is way above young readers heads. It just doesn’t appeal to them. They love the action-figures, the cartoons, but youngsters don’t pick up BATMAN or DETECTIVE COMICS and enjoy Morrison’s RIP storyline.

If the Comic book industry was serious about appealing to young readers, 2 things would need to happen.

1. BATMAN and all the family titles would have to be written like the animated series, because that’s what they are familiar with seeing the cartoon and the toys. Of course this would screw up the current continuity and alienate hardcore comic book readers. DC has tried various Batman books that follow the cartoons but kids don’t want it because it’s not the ‘real’ comic, but when they try reading BATMAN they don’t understand it or enjoy it like the cartoon. So they don’t bother with the comics at all and just enjoy the cartoon and toys.

Oh and The Dark Knight film wasn’t for kids, and it hardly convinced adults to pick up the ongoing monthlies.

2. The price per page would have to be more realistic for a kid with a much smaller disposable income. Unfortunately it’s far too late to change this because monthlies are fading and trades, OGNs and hardcovers are growing. So to market to kids, DC would have to offer their BATMAN comics online at an affordable price for parents.

I disagree that established characters like BATMAN, SUPERMAN, and SPIDER-MAN should remain as serialized floppies. I think established characters can thrive in OGN market, especially if it were ongoing. Take all the BATMAN books (Detective, Robin, Nightwing, and Catwoman) and compile them into one trade and you got a monthly BATMAN OGN. You can sell for $17-$20 a month as opposed to someone just buying one or two of the Batman family books at $4 each.

X-MEN would sell a million copies a month if there were only one book (OGN) to pick up and it shared the same continuity as the films. Less confusion and easier for general public identify with.

I use sites such as this one and the Previews magazine to make a list of what interests me and wait to see a previews or a download of the work before deciding to buy the work or not, nothing complicated here, comics are overpriced and I just cant deal with the ads anymore.

Since I know the genres and creators that appeal to me, its pretty easy to make a buying list.

Many publishers put up 10 pages or more as a free preview for tpb and HC and thats the way to go to sell them.

Since a lot of comics are bought out of habit, in the superhero genre, by an aging demographic, floppys wont go away too soon, but they lost me and many people a long time ago.

The real problem is, there many comics published without any merit, just because DC and Marvel (among others) know that people will buy it, even collected, you cant make any sense of their earth shattering crossovers.

if there’s anything I’ve learned on the internet, it’s not to argue with those who feel their opinions are fact, and they have an unalterable, singular grasp on the truth. Be well.

Actually, there is a way. I know it’s cute and polite to say “oh, it’s just specualtion”, but what he said is wrong. Common logic dictates it’s impossible for them to kill monthlies in a YEAR. 5-7 years, maybe. But the simple fact is that Marvel and DC’s business is doing well.

It makes no sense to say what he said. It’s wrong.

For indy books, unless you’ve already established a pedigree of some kind for yourself, it’s just impossible to compete with the big guns in this day and age. Retailers have to play a safe bet, and with banners across a combined total of more than 40 or 50 issues (plus 10 based on a particularly popular space opera, a couple of movie tie-ins…) per month from the big two proclaiming them to be part of either a line or company-wide crossover, shelf space just can’t be wasted on a new guy or a book that doesn’t have a tried and true sales history. While some larger comic stores (Midtown Comics and so on) have the space and the opportunity to showcase all sorts of books, the average shop wouldn’t be making a sound economic decision, especially in these financially unsure times, supporting a book with a guaranteed smaller audience over that of the definite 50 – 100 copy seller. And hey, I’m guilty of contributing to those sales too. I grew up a Marvel guy and even dabbled in DC for a time and I’ll always love picking up those books. I do it fully aware of the fact that I’m contributing to a machine which kept my book out of others hands. Why? Because I love the medium and most of those stories, those line and company wide behemoths, are fun and enjoyable and worthy of the space they’re given.

MOST of those stories.

On the other hand, asking a retailer to order one or two copies of a hardcover or trade isn’t taking away from those monthly sales. A spined book takes up less space than a faced-out floppy on the rack, and very likely a retailer worth his salt will know at least one customer who he can promote the book to and get a $15 – $20 sale out of the deal. Hell, maybe they even know TWO customers who prefer collected editions and like to read, say, Eagle Award nominated existential horror with critically acclaimed mixed media art.

What?! The first volume is coming out soon – I’ve gotta make a living here!

Then they just nabbed $40 gross in one swoop and they didn’t sacrifice anything of their guaranteed sales off the floppy rack. If nothing else, if a retailer doesn’t actively try to sell the trade but orders it in the hopes somebody will stumble across it on the trade shelves, it will offer an alternative to the average shopper if they’ve been Secretly Finally Invaded out. Or, better for the retailer, it represents an add-on sale to a customers purchase. It also opens up the lucrative avenues of book trade sales (Barnes & Noble, Borders, Amazon, etc.) where indy books have a better shot of finding a niche for themselves.

Digital, on the other hand, is just not for me. Maybe my generation will be the last great hold out (what’s kid of the early 80’s now? Generation Y?) but I need to hold a book, get that freshly printed smell, or in the case of an older book, that musty-I’ve-Got-History waft from the pages, and have a tactile interaction with something. I support the movement, anything that promotes the comic medium to a larger audience, but I don’t think it’ll ever replace printed comics entirely, anymore than I think Kindle or any other e-book phenomenon will replace the heft of a book in your hands. Web and digital comics offer a great marketing opportunity and low cost for creators/publishers and can even be a great proving ground for creators who, for one reason or another, just don’t get picked up right away by a publisher. Hell, I’ve got friends who practically make their living off of web comics and more power to them for it. For me though, I’ve just got to have it on a shelf, or in a long box, or on the nightstand, or where all great reading gets done, the bathroom, to truly immerse myself in the work and get the most out of it.

Personally, I loved writing a floppy book – and I plan to try more in the future once it’s more fiscally viable for me, either through success with the trade/hardcover releases of my other books or some other means. For now though, I say let Marvel and DC have that ground and continue to draw people into comics as they have for generations.

Then let retailers show them to the REALLY cool stuff on the trade shelves.

- Nick

To try and answer/rebut some….

1) Value. Monthly comic copies of the Dreamland Chronicles from IDW are selling for $3.99. That’s for 22 pages.
It’s a true monthly since I’ve already over 800 pages done.

The trades (there are 3 trades out with 300 pages in each book) sell for $19.99.

What’s the better deal?

2) Wanting to “try it first”?
That’s what having them up for FREE online is all about.

I have over 8 million readers worldwide who read Dreamland.
This translates into a wider readership.

And people can know what they are getting before they buy the books.

3) Cliffhangers.
I learned early on reading comics that cliffhangers can be per page, per issue, per chapter.

Limiting cliffhangers to 22 pages is just silly.

4) Income.
I’ve made more money ONLINE than I have ever made with pamphlets (monthly comics).
From ad revenues we’re paying the house payments.
By end of year…we hope to pay all of our house hold bills from this income.

Bringing in $2-$6k/month from advertisement is more than most anyone will ever see from monthly comic sales.

5) Monthlies going away will be the end of comics?
I don’t think so.

Sure…comic retailers will most likely go away. But to be honest…they have become harder and harder to find anyhow.

I think the few good ones will still be around.

But the general public will be able to get comics online and from book stores and amazon.

This is about expanding the market. Bringing in a larger audience.

I miss spinner racks. That’s what I grew up on.
They’ve been gone from stores for what…20 years now?
If anything killed comics (or could have)…it was losing comics in EVERY SINGLE drug store and supermarket.

We’ll adapt. We’ll go online.

If Marvel and DC are smart…they’ll put their comics online for free. Let the ad revenue pay for the art.

Cut down to maybe a dozen books each…and see where things go.

Hope this helps…and as Matt mentioned above…
This is just my opinion. No one can predict the future.
Take it all with a grain of salt…

Thanks
Scott

And there’s no reason that, given AMAZING SPIDER-MAN’s current rotating cast of creators, Marvel couldn’t serialize it online and drop a trade in that series every one to two months … the same argument could be made for downsizing the X-books into a single monthly, as well. Or the WOLVERINE books. All twelve of them. Ha!

You’re making an assumption that a 24 page serialized monthly equates to everything a comic book should be. Unfortunately you’re not alone in this mentality.

I know you don’t want to hear it, but that’s an extremely narrow view of what comics are. At most basic definition comics is sequential art, whether its one panel or a million panels to convey it’s message.

You can argue why stop publishing monthlies if my definition holds true. I think the point of the discussion is about economical feasibility of monthlies compared to the growing demand for original graphic novels (OGNs) and digital format. The latter show vast amount of potential, not just financially, but creatively too. There are tons and tons of ongoing monthlies that have been reprinted as trades, that could’ve been more receptive as original graphic novels.

Pick up an OGN and read the first 24 pages and put the book down for 35 days, the try picking up where you left Continue to read the next 24 pages and stop and wait ever 35 days, Do that until you’ve finished the book. To many people, It’s an awkward way of reading a whole story that could’ve been more enjoyable reading in one sitting.

Matt thinks he’s funny.

It was Gilmore Girls that I watched religiously.

Rev. OJ Flow has the Gossip Girl house. Apartment. Whatever.

Think about it: the first issue is released and some people will like it, but only hesitantly. They’ll say “Yeah, the first issue is great, but we’ll see if they keep it up.” Conversely, you have people who will dislike the first issue, but only half-heartedly. Those people will say “Well, the first issue was terrible but I’ll give them until the end of this first storyarc to change my mind.” You wind up with online discussions between readers debating the merits of “staying on” for X number of issues versus Y number of issues.

Face facts: with decompressed storytelling so in vogue, floppy pamphlets demand anywhere from three to six issues to get a full picture of the tone, pacing, and characterization. I call shenanigans on the whole “People are more willing to pay a few bucks out of their pocket for a single” argument. Imagine how many people would be waiting in line if movie tickets were 4 dollars for 1/4 of a feature instead of 10 bucks for the whole thing. I mean, do the math. Factor in the annoyance of having to run back to the theater monthly to watch it piecemeal (for people with a schedule, this isn’t fun or suspenseful, it’s obnoxious).

So let’s look at the numbers realistically: 4 issues at 4 bucks a piece equals 16 bucks (and that’s assuming you’re reading a 4-issue arc… many are 6 or more). This includes the nuisance of making multiple purchases over the course of several months. The other option is paying anywhere from 10 to 16 bucks (depending on page count) at one shot and getting a full story off the bat.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, so I should mention JONAH HEX. Also, CASANOVA and FELL were brilliant and noble attempts to really milk the monthly single for all it was worth. But these are the exceptions to the rule. The above article discussed why monthly singles aren’t economical for publishers but I tend to find them unfriendly towards buyers, as well.

That probably has some to do with it, but advertisers start to disappear when your ad isn’t reaching a large enough audience. They’re not going to continue to pump money in to advertise in a product with a declining audience. The CW is rolling in the big, major-league ads for a reason – it’s because yours, mine, and a lot of other folks’ TVs aren’t tuned to it tonight.

Except Troy. He’ll die without Gossip Girl. Just die.

If no one is buying Blue Beetle at $2.99, why would they buy it at $14.99?

So, what does this tell you about the $4 comics coming out from Marvel & DC this year? (I’m not buying them, too. Though one commenter thought $15 was cheap, to me—that is a lot of money.)

Prices need to be lowered to rescue the industry. And who is going to pay for online subscriptions for digital comics? The cost expectation is already free (or very cheap). It is not going to happen…