What can I get with 34 Anti-Reagan Points? (Please let it be Pomade …)

If you read closely, you’ll see I’m talking about Captain America as a character, not as a comic. There’s a difference. I was discussing how I see his character and what makes it feel relevant to the 21st century.

I can’t speak for other people’s portrayals of Cap — but the Englehart stuff was great, although comics writing back then was mostly aimed at 8 year olds, so why critique how “heavy-handed” it is? All comics of that era were, to some degree or another.

“Huh. What about the Nixon era could possibly leave someone disillusioned or bitter?”

Nixon vetoed a $2 billion military spending bill for research and development of shark nunchucks.

“Huh. What about the Nixon era could possibly leave someone disillusioned or bitter?”

Read it again, Chris. The “disillusioned” Cap was mopey 2002 post-911 version. I’m not defending Nixon, I’m just refuting Ed’s claim that Cap, as a character OR comic book, has hardly been free of partisan politicking.

<b?”If you read closely, you’ll see I’m talking about Captain America as a character, not as a comic.”

I kinda thought they were one and the same, since “his history as a character since the mid-’60s” has taken place exclusively in comic books.

Unless we count that late 70′s TV movie with the motorcycle and helmet-mask.

Just think of the countries we’ve failed to bring democracy to due to a lack of shark nunchucks.

“Mark, we all know you’re a raging right-winger who’s obsessed by the idea that your views are somehow not represented in modern discourse, and that you’re oppressed by the prevalence of TEH GHEY in comics, but please.”

LOL! “Raging right-winger”? No, more “bemused right-winger who occasionally inserts completely unwelcome opinion”, but certainly not raging. If anyone’s raging, it’s you, my friend (unless claiming someone is “butthurt” is a cool-headed compliment)

“Mark Gruenwald was probably the definitive Captain America chronicler prior to Brubaker, and took pains to portray Cap as a guy above any one side of politics, representing the Dream as a whole.”

I have no reason to doubt that….but that wasn’t my point. My point was to illustrate that left wing perspectives have found their way into the Captain America comic book, which was counter to Ed’s claim that Cap had never been used as a partisan tool. Interesting though: I suspect anytime Cap would spout a more liberal take on matters, he would be “representing the Dream”, yet if he was perceived to be leaning to the right, at THAT point he’d be merely a “tool”.

“If you recall, it was during that same run of John Walker as Cap that Gruenwald had Reagan himself come in and not only defend Walker to the CSA, but also demand to know why he wasn’t kept in the loop on why Steve Rogers got fired. Hardly a one-sided portrayal of the man as a buffoon, and definitely worth a few hundred Pro-Reagan points (usable to trade in for some nunchuks.”

Which somebody (not me) could possibly claim was a “political tool” moment, which once again gets back to my take on Ed’s statement.

Let me just say, at this point, how much I *do* enjoy Ed’s Captain America run, primarily because he *has* played it very well down the middle politically.

“I normally find it pointless to engage guys like you…”

What, you mean people who happen to disagree with you? Oh, wait. “Raging right-wingers”, right? Yeah, we’re kind of drag, aren’t we? Wouldn’t it be great going through your entire day with nothing but total agreement?

“…but Mark Gruenwald was not only the guy who got me reading Cap, but he was one of the best all-around writers and editors of his time, and he deserves better than you trying to score cheap shots off his work because you’re butthurt.”

Oh, come now, Martin. You act as if I’m advocating dragging the man’s corpse through the city streets. I simply pointed out that some of his work contained a political bias, as did many other periods of Cap’s comic book history. Just as Cap’s Golden Age comics were a vehicle for pro-America propaganda, so too have Cap comics occasionally become a vehicle for, well…not “anti-American”, but let’s say “America’s Not All It’s Cracked Up To Be” propaganda.

Oh, and rest assured, Martin…no butts were hurt in the writing of this opinion (which you can freely disregard without having to invoke the spirit and legacy of Mark Gruenwald).

Mark:

I believe what Ed Brubaker means is that Cap’s personality (in his view, and perhaps ideally) is not to be a “partisan tool,” that he does not just toe the line of any particular party but will, as Brubaker says, call a “lie a lie” no matter which side it comes from. That is, Brubaker means to describe Cap’s (again, perhaps ideal) character.

This seems entirely different than your point that he has been used by writers as a “partisan tool,” that is writers in your view have turned him into a mouthpiece for a particular partisan position or positions.

I think this hinges on different meanings of the word “tool.” I think you are using it in the sense of a tool like a hammer, as something used by someone else, while Brubaker seems to be using it in the sense of someone who can’t form an independent opinion. Or it might just be that Brubaker is talking about Cap as a person and you as a fictional device.