No, mediocre results are punished yet again.

Thank goodness. There was really nowhere else to go with “Superman as absentee dad and home wrecker” anyway.

I really hope they keep Brandon Routh. I thought he made a really great Superman and Clark, and with some of the ideas the studio had for the lead the last go round I’d be scared of what might happen if they don’t keep Brandon.

“We’re going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it.”

Silly Warner Bros. it wasn’t the “darkness” of Batman that made the movie popular, it was the utter uniqueness of Heath Ledger’s performance, and that is all. Otherwise it pry would have done about as well as the first one.

Give us the “unexpected” within the deliverance and “spin” of the cinema versions of our super heroes, not “darkness.”

Stupid stupid, how is that not obvious. Spider-man went dark (in 3), and look where that got him. Much lower sales than the previous 2 movies (yeah the story was a mess too, but I’m saying darkness doesn’t equal huge sales automatically).

I liked Returns. Visually, it was incredible. It just needed writers who understood the Superman/Lex mythos NOW, not twenty years prior.

I really hope Singer stays on board. And the rest of the cast, too, honestly. That movie made tons of money and the only thing hurting it was the writing.

And they seem to be forgetting that by the standards of the franchise, SUPERMAN RETURNS was actually pretty dark. It was just dark in a different way than TDK is, more melancholy than gritty. And a “gritty” Superman movie wouldn’t fit with anyone’s image of what Superman is- it could be entertaining if you based it on the Golden Age version, but I can’t imagine that being terribly profitable.

It’s the Empire Strikes Back Fallacy all over again.

Optimism. I like it.

I will now cross my fingers and toes and repeat the mantra “Up, Up and Away” for the next two years. See you all on the other side.

Read Robinov’s quote again: “We’re going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it.” NOWHERE does he say “We’re gonna make a dark Superman.”

Naturally, any Bat-sequels Nolan makes (and if they’re all as good as BB and TDK he can make as many as he wants) will be dark and brooding. The Green Arrow/Supermax thing will be dark (it’s in a prison). Green Lantern will probably have some dark elements (Hal’s had a tough life). I don’t think Robinov’s implying in any way that he’s going to make a brooding Superman. As Evan correctly points out, we already got that in Supes Returns. He enjoyed it, but I found it depressing. And I think a lot of other people did too.

You can have some dark moments in a Superman film, specifically though the villains. Darkseid (hell, it’s part of his name!), Brainiac (see the current Action arc), or Doomsday are all pretty dark. But Superman is the ray of light, the optimist who overcomes whatever dark forces threaten the Earth, and inspires others to follow his lead. I think that’s an important distinction to make here. If WB can reboot Superman to be more like that and less like the absentee dad/stalker ex-boyfriend I think it’ll work. That, and they need seriously up the ante on the action!

Really, I want to love a Superman movie. I liked the 1978 movie when I was a kid. But even then I never loved it. Now that I’m an adult, I can’t even watch it. It worked 30 years ago, I guess, and Chris Reeve was great, but it’s time to move on and make a clean break from all of that. Give us a true sci-fi epic action/adventure that has Superman facing a global threat that’s worthy of The Man Of Steel. No more real-estate scams, no more relying on kryptonite to weaken Supes, and leave Luthor out of the reboot. Maybe introduce him in a small way, as a powerful businessman who seems benevolent but is secretly plotting an agenda that will be revealed in a sequel.

I have nothing against Brandon Routh, but he’s the victim of a terrible script and piss-poor production. Any reboot will need to start from scratch and that means finding a new Superman. I feel bad for him, because the debacle of SR was not his fault. I just hope they find some good comic writers to script this reboot, and a director who will bring some fun to the project.

Spielberg? Cameron? Peter Jackson (probably not with The Hobbit on the way)? WB needs to think BIG here. I prefer Batman to Supes, but even I can see that a truly great Superman movie could be just as big, maybe bigger, than TDK is.

One more point, and I sort of alluded to this earlier, is that Johns has done some darker edged stuff in Action Comics, but he’s still remained true to who and what Superman is. There’s no reason a rebooted Superman film franchise can’t capture that same feeling. He’s a busy guy, but he’s someone I’d hope WB would ask to be involved with the project. Either as one of the writers, or at least as a consultant. Just make it more like the modern-day (post-COIE) Supes and it should work.

I tried to watch Returns this morning actually, and it’s a friggin wreck. Even Spacey was wasted.

Move forward and make me believe a man can fly, again. Damnit.

Visually, Superman Returns looked incredible. I felt like I was watching paint dry though, very attractive paint but paint nonetheless.

I really think Routh and Singer deserve another chance, thats if Singer even wants another chance. I hated X-Men but X2 was a masterpiece in comparison. I can’t imagine them trying to recast Superman and getting a movie in the next 5 years.

I’m glad they decided to set the tone as dark as humanly possible for all future comic book movies.

I would hate for a children’s cartoon character to appear in a movie that would appeal to children. That would be silly.

I’m hoping for something along the lines of All Star Superman.

Superman is not a regular super-hero. His stories have to be BIGGER and not in terms of enemies but ideas. It’s gotta be like a fairy tale from the future.

John Smith (if that is your real name) said:

>>“Johns has done some darker edged stuff in Action Comics, but >>he’s still remained true to who and what Superman is.”

>No, he hasn’t. Geoff Johns doesn’t understand heroism.

OK, John… Ante up. I gave Johns’ run on Action as one example of how Superman can, and should, be brought to the big screen. His run has hardly been perfect, but it’s still been pretty damned enjoyable. “Last Son” (despite the crippling delays) was pretty good. It certainly was a much better example of how to “give Superman a kid” than the travesty of SR was. The current Brainiac story has been excellent. I didn’t read the Supes/Legion arc, but most people seemed to really dig that too.

So tell us, what is it Johns is doing wrong exactly, and what’s your idea of heroism? The Superman we got in SR certainly didn’t understand what heroism was about. He left Earth right after promising (in Supes II, to which Singer claimed SR was the true sequel) that he WOULDN’T, and then (after getting back) he was far more concerned with stalking Lois than he was keeping tabs on Luthor, which should’ve been easy for him to do. He could’ve prevented pretty much everything that happened in that case, which just goes to show what a lousy script SR had.

Not trying to start a fight here, just asking you to back up your comment because I’m curious as to what you meant.

D. Peace, again the “dark” comments are being taken incorrectly. At least, I think they probably are. “(T)hat the characters allow it,” means that not every character can or will be handled the same.

Anyhow, the “children’s” argument seems a bit of a strawman argument to me. I think it’s pretty safe to say that anyone who’s spending time at a site like ‘Rama knows perfectly well at this point that comics aren’t just a child’s medium anymore. Some would argue it’s not a kid’s medium at all. DC and Marvel publish some kids comics, but most of them aren’t very big sellers and it’s not like kids can go to the local drug or grocery store and find them on the magazine racks anymore. It’s a shame, in some ways, but that’s the reality of it.

But it’s not like kids can’t enjoy some of this stuff. The Timm-verse animated DCU shows were certainly far above crap like Superfriends, but kids and adults alike could enjoy them (I know, I still watch them with my daughter). It’s not like kids haven’t gone to see the Spidey movies and Iron Man. Even TDK, which really isn’t a kids movie, has been marketed with breakfast cereals and children’s clothing. So at least some kids are seeing it. I debated taking my daughter, who was desperate to see it, but finally decided she was mature enough to handle it.

Finally, I’d argue that SR was not a child-friendly film at all. We GOT a dark and brooding Supes in that movie. A Supes who fathered an illegitimate child, I might add. That was really great, trying to explain to my daughter (who didn’t understand when she saw the movie) why the kid had super powers and who the daddy was. That’s not kiddie fare. Moreover, SR was a dull, downbeat, 2-1/2 hour snoozefest that wasn’t going to hold the attention span of child. That was true of my kid, and true of other children who’s parents I talked to.

Give kids a little more credit. They can watch stuff like Star Wars, Harry Potter, and other fantasy films, and generally handle the action and the occasional dark moments. A rebooted Superman film will likely be a lot more exciting, and more family-friendly, than SR was.

Superman Returns was, from what I understand, a story that picked up from where the Superman films that starred Christopher Reeves left off and was made by a fan of those films (Singer). If you put the five movies in a vacuum, Superman Returns both continues and improves upon those story lines. Having Superman be gone for 7 years only to come back to a world that has moved on without him is not a bad idea. However, doing so with complete disregard to the comics and characters developed therein was a huge mistake.

As for the new film, I think Tony Scott should direct it. He has demonstrated a firm grasp on how ugly the real world can be and has experience filming airborne action and sci-fi. This film should also avoid using only New York as its Metropolis. If Superman were in New York, it would be called New York and not Metropolis. I think Christopher Nolan’s idea to take Chicago and change it with CGI to only be instantly recognizable as Gotham and only somewhat recognizable as Chicago was brilliant and could be easily applied here. I like what Shaun said about Clancy Brown as Lex. Brown was the portrait of evil believing it was good in HBO’s Carnivale. Shave his head and you’ve got Lex Luthor. Smallville also has a good set to choose from, though I hate to admit it. Michael Rosenbaum is a brilliantly tormented Lex Luthor, and Tom Welling IS Superman. He lends a great deal of humanity that the character needs to stay relatable. I always liked that Lex was just a bit older than Clark. Lex should look like he can beat up Clark Kent.

The only way to make a dark Superman movie is to put him in a dark world. Let me set the scene. Superman is a very lonely character but an optimist who only wants the best for his adoptive planet. He is the most powerful being in the universe, but he doesn’t seem to know it. In his mind, he wears bright colors and treats everyone fairly because doing the right thing is something to be proud of. He envisions himself, not as a hero, but as a symbol for good working for the human race. Superman’s real goal is to keep humanity safe while offering, but never imposing, advancements in our way of life. This had to fail. Humanity, with a bit of prodding from the xenophobic and dangerously ambitious billionaire Lex Luthor, has had technology advance by leaps and bounds since the alien savior’s arrival. The world isn’t what it was. At first crime rates fell all over the world. After a while there had to be a pushback. Crimes became more elaborate. Criminals rose up to become rogues and super villains. Luthor watched–what was in his mind–an alien invader who makes us weak by cleaning up our messes and starts to arm this new breed of villain. The arms trickle down to terrorist groups and street gangs. Police can do less and less. Luthor seizes the opportunity he has created, and acting as the self proclaimed last hope for humanity, he arms governments. Luthor is only second only to Superman in terms of his popularity and recognition. Ordinary people and meta-humans who want to help begin putting on costumes and going out to do their part. Many of these new costumed adventurers see through Luthor. Others join him. A secret war is constantly fought in every major city in the world as the forces of good and evil collide, each wearing their respective tights, and people only hear about 1% of it. The world of Superman is one where street crime seems to be a rarity. In Metropolis, no one feels they have to lock their doors at night, but everyone lives with the chance of complete Armageddon at all times. If that is not dark, what is?

MC is a totally amazing artist. I love all of her albums.

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