On Wednesday, Newsarama reported on fans organizing online to demand a three-hour-plus run time for Zack Snyder’s adaptation of Watchmen.
However, there’s another Watchmen-related petition — this one following up on threats of a boycott of 20th Century Fox because of the studio’s lawsuit against Warner Bros. over who owns the film rights to the property.
Buoyed by a judge’s refusal last week to dismiss the complaint, Fox is playing hardball — for the moment, at least — with sources claiming the studio isn’t looking for compensation. Instead, it apparently wants to prevent the release of Watchmen because Warner Bros. never bought the rights from Fox, which claims to have acquired them sometime between 1986 and 1990.
Hollywood Insider’s Jeff Jensen dubs the rights kerfuffle as “perhaps the priciest whoopsie! in Hollywood history.”
But that’s all “nit-picky legalistic crap,” according to the “Boycott FOX for Watchmen Litigation” petition, which has racked up 979 names since it was started on Wednesday morning:
20th Century Fox is putting the Watchmen movie in jeopardy by suing Warner Bros. over copyright infringment. It’s over some nit-picky legalistic crap over who held the rights when it was purchased by WB. Obviously, since the movie is getting good hype now, Fox is just trying to cash in. Show Fox what you think by joining this petition.
Even before the petition began, a Fox had spokesman responded to questions about fan backlash: “Of course we are concerned about the fans; however, any disappointment from the core fans should not be directed toward Fox. What we are doing is seeking to enforce our distribution rights to Watchmen. Legal copyright ownership should not just be swept under the rug and ignored.”
It’s as if Fox saw that petition coming.
Lawsuit, trailer frenzy, runtime concerns, petitions, boycotts — is Snyder’s Watchmen really worth all of this fuss?
Yes, if you believe filmmaker (and sometimes-comics writer) Kevin Smith:
I saw Watchmen. It’s f***ing astounding. The Non-Disclosure Agreement I signed prevents me from saying much, but I can spout the following with complete joygasmic enthusiasm: Snyder and Co. have pulled it off.
Remember that feeling of watching Sin City on the big screen and being blown away by what a faithful translation of the source material it was, in terms of both content and visuals? Triple that, and you’ll come close to watching Watchmen. Even Alan Moore might be surprised at how close the movie is to the book. March can’t come soon enough.
As Jensen points out, “depending on how you felt about Sin City, Smith’s assessment may or may not strike you as impressive.”
Yet in light of the lawsuit, and Fox’s hard-line stance, will fans — and Alan Moore — ever find out whether Smith is right?
Most likely.
As we noted earlier this week, despite a Fox source claiming “there are some damages you never recover,” this is Hollywood: Everything is about money. How much is the question.
Some speculate Warner Bros. may have to shell out $25 million — only slightly more than the $17.5 million it had to pay in 2005 to clear up the rights to The Dukes of Hazzard. Surely, Watchmen is worth much more to the studio than Bo and Luke Duke, good ol’ boys or not.
Of course, considering Watchmen’s potential “an ancillary-media cash cow,” Jensen suggests Fox could get far more than $25 million if it were to become a profit participant.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
And of course no one has yet created a “Treat Alan Moore’s Work With Respect” petition.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 am
I’m sure someone, somewhere has. The murky waters of the Internet run deep with petitions. And porn.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
I love the thought that FOX is going to bend to the wishes of fans. Ha. Of all the major entertainment studios, FOX is the one that has always been the least worried about their actions angering fans.
I do agree that the whole “some damages you never recover” thing is crap. Hollywood is about money. FOX may end up getting a lot of money out of this, but the movie will get released.
(Hell, if FOX were to kill it it would probably get released to the internets and create a viral sensation anyway. The movie’s done – it’s not going to sit in a vault and never get released even if FOX wanted to kill it at this point.)
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
I have to echo what I heard from someone else: It seems pefectly clear that Fox was never going to get off their collective ass to make this movie. So when they got wind that Warner Bros was making it, all of the greedy rats over at Fox said, “Let’s let them get close to finishing the thing (you know, the point of no return), and then we’ll slap ‘em with a suit. They’ll have to pay us in order to release it!”
Slimy, slimy stuff.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
time to point out again that WATCHMEN is NOT “Alan Moore’s work”.
It is Alan And Dave’s work.
And Dave likes it—so there.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:26 am
And right now Moore is saying “you see, this, this is why I didn’t want anything to do with it.”
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 am
Haha, reminders:
David Lloyd claimed V for Vendetta was a good movie.
Kevin O’Neill said that League of Extraordinary Gentleman was an awesome movie and Sean Connery was the perfect embodiment of Allan Quatermain.
At this point, it’s kind of foolish to take anything the artist says about an Alan Moore movie seriously, considering they’re the ones getting paid all the money from it.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
# The Ugly American Says:
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
And of course no one has yet created a “Treat Alan Moore’s Work With Respect” petition.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!
So very sad, yet so very true:)
That, and if I haven’t boycotted Fox for Rupurt Murdoch’s megalomania over the years (Fixed News, Newscorp, buying the Wall Street Journal, etc.etc.etc.) there should be NO reason to boycott them now.
Come guys, priorities.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
There is literally no way Warner Bros will let anything stop this inevitable cash cow of a film from coming out. I reckon Fox will name a price soon, Warners’ll pay it, and they’ll both eventually end up a whole lot richer and all will right with the world.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Jeez, three hours? Why do I get Billy Walsh on Medellin vibes?
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hoping that eventually this sinks in on the “blame Fox for suing yesterday” crowd:
Fox did not just file suit. They didn’t wait until everything was done. They didn’t wait until the film got a good publicity roll on. That’s just when the judge announced a decision allowing the suit to continue.
The suit was filed in February. If the Fox filing is to be believed, they gave WB warning of their interest in the property over a year ago.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Honestly, comparing it to Sin City is not good. At least, not to me. I don’t understand the petition for a 3-hour movie – 2 hours or 3 hours, it’s not going to capture the entire thing. Making it 3 hours will just bloat it. And this petition? If FOX really owns the rights to it, well… they deserve the money, yes?
Of course, if that 300 guy is directing it, well, he can’t pass up more opportunities to put some more slow-motion in there, could he?
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
That online petition is a waste of time. One, Fox isn’t going to pay any attention to it. Two, the movie is going to be released. Fox isn’t trying to stop the release, just trying to get money. Three, nobody is actually going to boycott Fox movies, because most people will forget after a month or so.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I’m so sick and tired of the Watchmen now.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
OH yeah “Treat Alan Moore’s work with respect” Just like he treats the work of H. Rider Haggard with respect by having Alan Quartermain addicted to opium in LOEG. Also how he treats the works of J. M. Barrie and Lewis Carroll with respect by having Wendy and Alice performing a multitude of sexual acts on each other in Lost Girls. You and Alan Moore need to get off your high horse. I love most of Alan Moore’s stuff but I think he is a giant hypocrite. He doesn’t want people to interpret his work yet half his stuff is fan fiction and slash fiction. I call shenanigans!
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Fox said that they ARE trying to stop the release.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Here’s another reminder: Super-folks by Robert Mayer.
I’m looking forward to the movie, and the Chip Kidd book, but the role of this work shouldn’t be overlooked.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm
f*@$ twentieth century sox. stupid star wars can continue but these morons get all hot and bothered when another franchise looks like its going to take off like batman did for warner? hollywood is nothing more than lawyers these days any way. and the supposed actors strike that will hit least before any one expects it. such a disgusting situation.
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I’m sorry, I love Gibbons but to act as his approval trumps Moore’s disapproval is asinine.
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Actually, Dave, the live action STAR WARS movies seem to be wrapped up for the moment and the CLONE WARS thing is distributed by WB, so Fox isn’t seeing dime one of that. (Arguably their own fault for KOing their feature animation division, but what’s done is done.)
In any case, there seems to be a certain lack of interest in whether in fact Fox did due diligence on the distribution rights and whether or not Fox has a valid claim. Has anyone been able to look at and analyze the documentation for this?
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I think what Fox is trying to get at is that they want to stop WB from releasing it as a Warner Bros. film and then Fox will want to later distribute it as a 20th Century Fox release in the very near future. Obviously they’re not mental enough to wan to lock it away in the vault and never let it be seen mwuhaha style. Duh.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Um… shouldn’t that be treat Grant Morrison’s work with respect?
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
“Alan Quartermain addicted to opium in LOEG.”
I always liked the Alan Moore comment about Hollywood, that they arbitrarily decided to remove Quartermain’s opium addiction from ‘League’, but decided that it made sense to make an 1880′s British cop an opium addict in ‘From Hell’.
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
StanLeeWasRight was wrong.
Quatermain, not Qua-R-termain.
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Yeah, changes like that in league and from hell are definitely random, but my point is that Alan Moore is too stuck up about people adapting his work. I mean, just in LOEG alone he uses other peoples ideas and characters and changes many aspects of them. He is in essence doing fan fiction. It seems kinda stupid for him to care so much about people messing with his characters when Moore himself does the same thing to other peoples characters.
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Nat, if you’re still reading:
I can’t help but notice Fox’s statement
“What we are doing is seeking to enforce our ***distribution rights *** to Watchmen. Legal copyright ownership should not just be swept under the rug and ignored.”
By their own words, they don’t appear to have ownership of story, creation rights, or anything that gives them a right to “squash the film”. Wouldn’t distribution rights be a pretty limited thing?
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
And yes it is spelled Quatermain, but that’s beside the point.
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
craps
i thought FOX quitclaimed it?
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Yes Scavenger, distribution rights for a movie are a “pretty limited thing,” unless, you know, WB ever wants to release the movie to theaters, video, or pretty much anywhere outside of an editing room.
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Why do comic movie fans care what Kevin Smith Says?
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Wow, almost 1,000 fans. Fox HAS to listen now. I mean, thats like the whole internet right?
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Here is the thing I don’t understand, Warner Brothers OWNS the Watchmen Property, Fox optioned it, how long ago? The sticky wicket is that if a studio options something, they have x amount of time to move on it, begin pre-production, get a script, etc…
Usually it’s around 5 years. What was the deal between Warners and Fox?
Fox is without a doubt the king of all douches. They do this crap all the time, like when they told Hugh Jackman and the cast of X3 if they were going to be in Bryan Singer’s Superman Returns they would not be in X3.
When James Mardsen took a bit part he was killed off in the first 10 minutes. They threatened to take the Wolverine project from Jackman if he went over to Superman…
They KILL great things like Firefly, while giving us “who wants to marry a guy pretending to be a millionaire”
Also, Warners would be INSANE not to make this the full three hours. Dark Knight was 2 and a half hours, and it is almost rivaling Titanic in non-adjusted ticket sales.
IF YOU DO A GOOD MOVIE, PEOPLE WILL GO EVEN IF ITS LONG!
I want to see Snyder’s full version of this.
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Danny Donovan, you speak the truth. If the movie is good, people will go.
Still, it’d be nice if they would show some restraint. Personally, I’m sick of movies that reach up to 2 1/2 – 3 hours – especially comic book movies. It worked for the Dark Knight, maybe, but Batman Begins, Superman Returns, Spider-man 3, Sin City – all way too overlong and bloated.
Or here’s a solution. Let Snyder have his 3-hour long cut, but THEN turn all the slow-motion bits into normal-motion, and you’d have a 2 hour movie! Problem solved.
And besides, that’s what special edition DVDs are for. No one wants to sit in a theatre for more than 2 hours and 20 minutes or so.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:55 pm
If they’re just going to reproduce it shot-for-shot, why not just stay home and read it for free?
If Christopher Nolan and crew just made Year One and Killing Joke shot-for-shot, it’d get kind of boring for those who have read those stories.
Instead, their Batman films stand on their own alongside the comics. They’re certainly faithful to the spirit of various classic stories and the mythos but they’re also not slaves to them which is why I think they’ve appealed to such a broad audience.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 am
Dave Said (August 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 am):
“Haha, reminders:
David Lloyd claimed V for Vendetta was a good movie.”
And he was right. It was actually better than the graphic novel, and that’s coming from someone who read the graphic novel long before seeing the film.
Nat Gertler Said (August 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm):
“Hoping that eventually this sinks in on the ‘blame Fox for suing yesterday’ crowd:
Fox did not just file suit. They didn’t wait until everything was done.”
In truth, that’s pretty much what they did. Filming wrapped in February. Fox sued in February, 8 days before filming ended. Granted, they reputedly had tried contacting Warner before production ever began and were ignored, but that’s irrelevant in the matter of when the suit occurred.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:21 am
“I’m sick of movies that reach up to 2 1/2 – 3 hours – especially comic book movies.”
You know, a long time ago, studios would occasionally make 2 1/2-3 hour long films and place an intermission in between. Gone With The Wind (A movie based on a popular book with a very dedicated fan base) was one such film, and if I’m not mistaken that made quite a bit of cash. So why not a 3 hour long Watchmen with an intermission?
Yes, I know that cineplexes don’t like long films, because it lessens the amount of shows they can play in one day, but with an intermission they could make up for the lack of show times with selling more crap at the concession stand (where the theaters make all of their money anyway).
This would give the film makers to make the correct length of time to tell the story and give all the restless audience members a chance to stretch their legs and gab on their cell phones.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:02 am
With movies tickets and concession costing what they do, maybe people feel like they’re being ripped off if a movie is less than 2 hours so studios throw out longer flicks.
“Why not a 3 hour long Watchmen with an intermission?”
The Lord of the Rings theatrical cuts were 3 hours and did fine without intermissions.
Most theaters don’t have the staff to police all the people who would probably try to sneak in or break up fights and ensuing riots between people stealing other people’s seats with general admission. I’ve never had an intermission at a movie and I don’t see them making a comeback.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:05 am
Oh, fan entitlement. “We DESERVE to see this movie! I’ve been waiting YEARS for this to happen!” HA! I’ve actually seen someone post something exactly like this and it’s ridiculous. I think Alan Moore deserves to have a say in whether this should be made or not, but WB doesn’t care. So why should Fox care?
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:41 am
“By their own words, they don’t appear to have ownership of story, creation rights, or anything that gives them a right to “squash the film”. Wouldn’t distribution rights be a pretty limited thing?”
The fact that this is going forward as a case basically illustrates that the judge isn’t sure. A Distribution rights deal could have any number of requirements and riders attached to it and obviously we don’t have access to those contracts to give our qualified INTERNETS LAWYER opinions.
Also I’m seconding Fahad’s comment. FOX and Newscorp has been doing worse than this for decades, and _now_ it’s important to you guys? Because funnybooks are involved?
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:14 am
Dances With Wolves was 3 hours long, yet didn’t seem that long at the time.
We only notice the length of a movie when it isn’t very good…like Wall*E. Had it gone on for 2 hours, I’d have killed someone. The short cartoon before the movie was far better.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:29 am
“Filming wrapped in February. Fox sued in February, 8 days before filming ended.”
Yes, but that’s hardly when the film was “done”. A film like this has a heckuva lot of the effort in post production.
“#
By their own words, they don’t appear to have ownership of story, creation rights, or anything that gives them a right to “squash the film”. Wouldn’t distribution rights be a pretty limited thing?
No… because a film that cannot be distributed cannot make money. Distribution is where the money comes in, so if you want to show financial damages, that seems like the logical point to focus on. However, that’s not their only claim. In the complaint, they speak of “Fox’s exclusive rights to produce and develop the picture and to distribute the work throughout the world.”
However, their claims appear more vigorous with regard to distribution over production. They state that they entered into a 1991 Quitclaim, which would remove their right to make the film but leave them with the right to distribute the first film that was made. That Quitclaim and other relevant documents can be found linked to at http://uncivilsociety.org/2008/08/watchmen-lawsuit-original-docu.html
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I’d ust like to point out to everyone that the amount of work Alan Moore put into Watchmen was miniscule compared with that of Dave Gibbons and DC. All Moore did was take a group of existing characters that someone else thought up, changed the names, and ripped of the premise of the novel “Superfolks” by Robert Mayer. (A lot of people won’t even have heard of “Superfolks” since it was a novel, and not a comic book.)Then Alan Moroe stole the ending to Watchmen from an old episode of Outer Limits (so blatently that the editor of the first eleven issues refused to put his name on the final issue). Dave Gibbons, however, designed all the new looks of these “borrowed” characters, drew 12 very lengthy issues perfectly, and to this day gets a fraction of the credit. Alan Mooore has screwed Gibbons out of money for decades now by not allowing toys and other merch to come out, and anyone who knows comics knows that Dave Gibbons is far from over-rated as an artist, while Moore is the most over-rated writer in any medium ever. Give credit where credit is due, not to some cranky old man who has made a career of stealing ideas. V For Vendetta is just 1984 with a superhero in it to save the day, and anyone on this board could take six of their favorite literary characters and tell a kick-ass LOEG type sotry also. The differnce would be that any of us who were lucky enough to get to do so would take the time to acknowlegde the efforts of the guys who drew the things for us.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
“Alan Mooore has screwed Gibbons out of money for decades now by not allowing toys and other merch to come out”
I’m not sure how many merchandise opportunities were actually turned down between the run of early merch (buttons, watch, role playing game module) and the 15th anniversary kerfuffle… but it should be noted that years ago, Alan ceded financial interest in the films to his artistic collaborators. Dave’s share of that likely, shall we says, mutes the financial blow of there not having been Watchmen pogs.
And even if Alan took his inspiration from elsewhere, that does not mean there was not considerable effort in crafting the details of his stories and building the richness of his scripts. His work may not be to everyone’s taste, but it is well-regarded by many who are not ignorant of his influences.
I can’t recall seeing any effort by Moore to deny the value of his collaborators (and have seen cases of exactly the opposite.) It seems to me that it is others who tend to overlook the value of the contributions of Gibbons, Lloyd, and his other fine collaborators.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
“V For Vendetta is just 1984 with a superhero in it to save the day”
ahahaHAHAHAHAHA. Jesus Christ, have you even read V for Vendetta?
“anyone on this board could take six of their favorite literary characters and tell a kick-ass LOEG type sotry also.”
Yes, and I’m sure everyone on this board could do note-perfect imitations of the writing styles of Shakespeare, Wodehouse, Kerouac and others as well while they write their masterpiece “Harry Potter, Deadpool and Anita Blake fight Doctor Doom and Sinestro.” Let’s see your literary masterpiece, AnimalMother.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Sorry DAVE, I meant anyone but you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
And Dave, seriously, Harry Potter and Anita Blake. Read some big boy books for a change buddy.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Look this movie needs to be released and no matter how long it is or how short it maybe. A lot of people have put a lot work into making this happen. So let the lawyers sort it out and keep the ball rolling…NUFF SAID!
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
@AnimalMother
I think I remember reading about that in an article about Len Wein, the editor on the first 7 (?) issues of Watchmen. I can’t remember exactly how many issues it was before Wein bowed out.
Anyway, according to Wein, he called Moore out on the ending ripoff from Outer Limits, and according to the article and Wein’s recollection, Moore basically admitted that the ending was a ripoff but didn’t want to change it, hence Wein leaving the series as editor. I think Alan Moore is a great writer, mind you, but I tend to agree that he’s vastly overrated and just because he’s messed around with open domain characters doesn’t change the fact that they were characters created by others so it does make him look like a rather hypocritical ass when he throws a tantrum at the idea of other people taking the reigns on his stuff.
Speaking of getting screwed out of credit and money, Len Wein also created a little character known as Wolverine. It’s hard to believe that he hasn’t sued yet, especially after the recent Siegel decision.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:41 pm
“Harry Potter and Anita Blake.”
“Read some big boy books”
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Oh God that’s funny
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
“Alan Mooore has screwed Gibbons out of money for decades now by not allowing toys and other merch to come out”
Merchandise, toys, bobbleheads, movies, games…does anyone read the actual comics?
I think they should just start making all the crossover projects and merchandise first and then put out the comics later. Given some erratic publishing schedules, that’s not much of stretch.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I agree with people saying that Alan Moore is too sensitive about people adapting his work considering that most of his work is fan fiction. Remember, this is the guy who turned Kid Miracleman into a genocidal maniac.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I am willing to ban all FOX movies for one year as punishment for stopping the movie!
August 24th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I’m willing to not see Fox movies for a year because most of them suck.
August 24th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Just because you CAN sue someone doesn’t mean you SHOULD.