“In the first movie we use Ra’s Al Ghul and The Scarecrow, who had not been in the movies before, and had not been in the sixties TV show before. And there are dozens if not hundreds of other characters that fit that bill.”

Yeah, why use the characters everyone wants to see, like say, The Joker? Why not go obscure and use… um… Man-Bat? Or, uh, Scarface? That’ll bring’em in!

Catwoman is overexposed, movie-wise. I’d avoid her.

I’d say use Mad Hatter, but Carrey’s Riddler totally stole his mind-control bit for Batman Forever, so it might appear redundant.

Mister Freeze, Poison Ivy and Clayface are a little too supernatural, unless they were toned down or reinterpreted.

Killer Croc was addressed in that recent DTV interstitial DVD that came out, which was supposed to bridge the movies.

Harley Quinn doesn’t make sense without The Joker. Joker as a new actor (or a shadowed puppetmaster) and Scarecrow are still around.

They could use Scarface & The Ventriloquist.

In the Nolan/Goyer’s Bat Universe, I think that Deadshot would work. Especially considering Deadshot’s origin in the 1950s. He was a Gotham hero who nearly usurped Batman, becoming Gotham’s favorite hero, until Batman exposed him for what he really was–a villain who was trying to run Gotham’s underworld. Since the next film’s likely theme will be redemption, what better way for Batman to return to Gotham’s good graces than to expose a fraudulent hero?

With the stink on the “Catwoman” name after the awful Haley berry movie I’d think you’d want to avoid her. Somehow I don’t see Penguin or Riddler working in these movies. Scarface you might be able to do something with but then you’d be repeating the “he’s a complete crazy bastard” theme they just hit with Joker.I’d bet they wished they would have saved Two Face for a third movie now.

If we have to go female, as I said before, Catwoman is out due to overexposure.

So we look elsewhere:

Harley Quinn - as earlier, a distant maybe; one too many Arkham doctors gone nuts makes her a Scarecrow rehash with a Joker facade

Poison Ivy - too supernatural unless properly toned down.

Talia Al Ghul - logical conclusion to revisit the first film, but not ever hinted at.

Kind of a short list.

Killer Moth as the Anti-Batman would be cool, but that was the role the Joker took in TDK.

Firefly and Zsasz could both work fine as add-on villains.

It’s really too bad Shumaker screwed up The Riddler. A serious Jim Carey Riddler (not the campy version he played in Batman Forever) would have been the perfect choice.

And Nolan incorporating as much of Two-Face into The Dark Knight as he did, destroyed any possibility of Dent being the primary villain in the 3rd movie.

I’d run with ManBat at this point, which would add a great element of suspense and mystery, as the now “outlaw” Batman has to clear his name of violent murders, caused by a Bat-like creature. The citizens of Gotham, even Gordon suspect Batman, prompting a massive manhunt and reward, which could also bring Deadshot to town. That would be an excellent onscreen fight between 2 very skilled professionals. It would work…REALLY well. I’d end the movie with Batman defeating Deadshot, clearing his name and reputation and Bruce, satisfied with developments, treats himself and a female friend to front row seats at…the Circus. The movie goes off with Bruce’s friend introducing him to the Graysons and their child star…Dick. They shake hands and the screen goes black.

Damn…I just got goosebumps!

Squasha: Zsasz actually appears in Batman Begins. Or he kind of does: one of the Arkham escapees, the bald one that menaces Rachel Dawes during the breakout scene, IIRC, is covered in tally marks all over his body.

A way to make Poison Ivy work:

First, take away any of her powers: the control over plants, the pheromones, everything.

I see Ivy as a classic film noir femme fatal. She’s a seductress.

She can either be a botanist or just a protester from a plant-centric interest group, that cares for plants much more than she cares for humans. When the Gotham botanical gardens is slated for demolition after being purchased by a notable Gotham company, Ivy goes around Basic Instinct style and seduces, and kills it’s board of trustees…including Bruce Wayne (obviously she doesn’t kill Wayne, but he can be on the board of trustees and in danger).

I can’t see her as a primary villain, but there is one way in which Poison Ivy can be made to work.

To Michael: Deadshot is an excellent choice, and the idea of Batman exposing Deadshot while redeeming himself and his reputation in an excellent idea.

To Zonked: He’s talking about either the recent mini-series “Batman and the Monster Men” or the sequel “Batman and the Mad Monk.” Or perhaps both? They were both excellent. Worth getting.

To Zla’od: Nolan & Co. have made it pretty clear they are NOT gonna recast Joker. And considering how Heath nailed that role, any thoughts of recasting are simply a bad idea. You’ll either get a totally different take on the character, or you’ll get someone trying to imitate Heath. Either way, everyone will be comparing the “new” Joker to Heath, and it’s no-win situation.

I completely agree with you about Talia though. She’s the character I think I most want to see at this point, with a “surprise” reveal of Ra’s, alive again after a trip to a Lazarus Pit. Ra’s backstory was only hinted at in “Begins” and I’d like to see it explored more, in a more global epic.

Catwoman might be workable if it’s nothing like Pfiefer, Berry or (obviously) the old TV show. I really enjoyed Catwoman on Batman: TAS, far more than I ever enjoyed Joker episodes on that show. I’m opposed to Riddler or Penguin, although if either one can be portrayed in a somehow serious manner, I’d be open to it. Either one should probably be a minor villain though, sorta like Scarecrow was in these first two flicks. Same with Scarface. I think the concept is way-y too goofy (”Gatman”? I mean, really now). If you use him, keep it a small part.

Along with Deadshot, I like Hugo Strange, Black Mask and Hush as possible villains. A variation of The Long Halloween would’ve been good, but with Harvey Dent killed off (a mistake, IMO) I’m guessing that story won’t be happening.

You could have a character vaguely like the Penguin is these days - a portly and ski-nosed nightclub owner with extensive but deniable ties to the Mob and a bit of a gimmick. but that would be more of a wink to the audience than a villain you could build a film around.

To Fanboy Menace: OK, so a villain more obscure than Riddler or Catwoman might not be as appealing to some filmgoers. But it’s not like Batman Begins did badly. Nothing like TDK, I grant you, but that film had to fight the stigma of the Burton/Schumacher films, did quite well in a summer packed with huge movies (including SW: Episode 3), and helped lay the groundwork for the explosion of TDK. Even without the Heath Ledger tragedy, TDK was going to be a huge movie.

Now that Nolan’s Bat-verse is a bona fide phenomenon, I think Nolan & Goyer can be cut some slack and not feel like they have shoehorn a villain who might be sadly out of place in the world Nolan’s created. Interest will (obviously) be huge in the next movie, and as long as it’s another great story, and as thrilling and as wild a ride as TDK is, it’ll do well. My worry is that going with the familiar villains that have been done many times before (and usually badly) could create a “Schumacher Stink” and end up backfiring.

Spider-Man 3, in spite of it making a lot money, comes to mind. Loaded up with villains that were fairly well-known, but ended up satisfying almost no one.

Oh! Geoff Johns for the Win. I’m amending my insignificant opinion to include Hugo Strange. Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul and Hugo Strange! There’s your psycho-drama right there, pal.

Liking your way of thinking, RMC… Talia, Selina, and Hugo Strange. Lots of potential there!

I still hope Ra’s will return as well, more of the comic book Ra’s. Liam Neeson wouldn’t need to wear any long fancy capes or anything, but some arctic and/or desert scenes would be cool. And a sword fight, natch.

Funny thing about Grant Morrison though. For someone who thinks Bruce needs some lovin’, he’s not showing the character much love himself. Sorry, but I’ve really disliked Morrison’s current run. Bat-Mite was my last straw, and I’m taking a pass on “RIP.” Now I’ll (probably, thankfully) miss out on Jason Todd’s return too.

Interesting how TDK has become this global phenomenon, yet the current Bat-comics are pretty much impenetrable to new readers. DC’s missed a huge opportunity. At least potential readers can go back and enjoy stuff like Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and The Killing Joke.

Well Geoff probably had the best suggestion with Hugo Strange. Throw in Ruport Thorne on the city council. Heck, you could probably include Black Mask and his gang and also the Penguin in this one with a big gang war. Possibly the Ventriloquist and Scarface, too.

Deadshot’s also an interesting possiblity, and we did get him in the Gotham Knights DVD (although the DVD also had Killer Croc).

I love Catwoman, but I’m pretty burnt out on the character after Burton’s take and the Berry fiasco.

He’s not a villain, but The Question could be a good ideological foil for Batman as a reporter who’s obsessed with truth and conspiracies. Would give you some more moral areas to explore in a different way than the last films did.

I think Geoff Johns suggestion of Hugo Strange was a darn good one. Probably the movie would need a “visually exciting” villain as well, but Strange is a villain that gets to the “real-world” psychological atmosphere that Nolan uses in the movie, and continues the theme of Bruce Wayne coming to terms with his Batman identity. Maybe they could use Hugo Strange with Bane, keeping the “orphaned at a young age” aspects of Bane to parallel against Batman.