On his LiveJournal, Brian Wood asks a “purely, 110% hypothetical, not based on anything real or actual” question that relates to the never-ending “trades vs. monthlies” debate:
Let’s suppose a book like DMZ stopped coming out monthly and instead you got a 150-page original graphic novel every seven months or so, same production values as the trades, same everything as the trades. But obviously the cover price would have to go up…
So how much would you pay for it? What’s the highest that price tag could be before you decide it’s too expensive to buy it?
Most of the responses fall in the $15-20 range.
As an aside in the comments, he later says, “I throw my singles away when I’m done (or rather, I recycle them). Like newspapers or magazines. Much healthier that way.” Just out of curiosity, does anyone toss out their comics when they’re done with them? I don’t, but I’ve read more than my far share of ones I should have recycled.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
I have thrown away some over the years, knowing that they can be recycled, knowing that there is little resale value, and knowing I wll never re-read them. But by and large, I think most fans will say that comic books are not like newspapers and magazines. You read those things only once. A good comic, like a good book, is something you might want to re-read. If you buy the comic again in collected form, OK, then I get tossing it. But otherwise?
I wonder if Wood also throws away books when he’s done. Or DVDs and CDs?
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:09 am
I don’t see why it should cost more as an OGN, than it would as a collected trade. I realize that comic publishers are used to making money on the same material again and again. First they sell ads, an area of the business I don’t think I’ve ever seen analyzed, then the monthlies, then the trades, and the hard covers, the Absolutes, etc, etc. But a book shouldn’t be priced to recover monies it might have made had it been previously published in another format.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
People throw away comics? Crazy. I re-sell them.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 am
I’ve been sending my single issues to the troops. They seem to appreciate it.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:59 am
I usually sell my comics back to my shop for minimal trade in value. If they don’t want the book back, I either give it to Goodwill or I also donate all-ages titles to a local hospital’s pediatrics ward. That way someone else can benefit from the book and you ge the tax write off (at cover value).
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:03 am
I throw away comics all the time. I can’t imagine anyone ever being grateful to be given a free copy of that Jeph Loeb Ultimate Power mini-series.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
@David Bird If I understand this correctly, monthly sales of individual issues basically underwrite the cost of paying the creators. The trades are priced to essentially cover production costs on the trade and possibly royalties (although those might kick in only after the trade’s break-even point). So if you eliminate the monthly issues, you have no revenue stream to cover the paychecks for the writer, artist, etc. That’s why an OGN will cost more.
Also, I can’t imagine that ad sales constitute much revenue for comics. I’ve been working in newspapers and magazines for more than 10 years, and I know it takes a lot of ads to finance a publication. Plus, even though comics can reach a specific demographic, they have terrible circulations to make it worthwhile for high-priced ads.
And by all means, if my knowledge is off on any this, someone please feel free to correct me.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:31 am
I could be wrong, but I think a lot of comics ads are sold for the line, rather than the individual comic. That makes the circulation numbers more appealling.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Who throws out comics?
I tend not to toss anything printed; magazines I no longer want I donate to the library or sell on eBay. Same goes for books, though I tend to hold on to those no matter what.
Comics? They’re keepers, though I do sell my valuable doubles on eBay and give away the rest through contests on my website every Monday. Yes, if you click on my name below, you too can win my extra comics. Whee!
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I don’t buy single issues any more except in the rare case.. but yes, when I’m done with them I throw them out. No interest in fiddling with bags and boards.
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
I throw out or give away my books now. I just can’t store anymore comic books in my room. Except for a shelf full of keepers, like Brian Woods DMZ and DEMO (easily worth 20 bucks a trade). I’m also hoping to see a coffee table collection of Brians DMZ covers when the series is over.
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I’ve always resisted getting rid of my old comics, then started realizing I get rid of all my magazines and books without a second thought when I’m done with them. Now, if I finish a comic I know I’ll never read again, I either give them to local kids or the pediatric ward of a local hospital.
To Laura: How do you get them to the troops? That’s another good idea.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Joe Vince:
I haven’t heard that trades are priced to simply recover production costs and royalties, and I doubt thats the case. Publishers expect to make a profit, and royalties are paid from teh first sale, not after production costs are covered.
The standard model, and the one used throughout the rest of the publishing industry, is to pay a writer an advance against his royalties. The royalties are collected from the first sale, but the author only receives money after his advance has been earned back.
Novels can take a couple of years to write and authors expect to live off their royalties, not from a page rate for producing the book in the first place. Graphic novels are typically put together from 6 monthlies. If creators worked at the same pace, they could put out 4 OGN in a two year period. That’s a pretty steady flow of royalties.
Comic publishers and creators have been spoiled by a customer base that is happy to keep buying the same material in each new format. I think the move towards graphic novels — that is, people just buying graphic novels — underscores an unwillingness to keep it up. If the future is graphic novels, then the comics industry is going to have to buy into the same model as everyone else.
As for ads, as Rob S pointed out, they are sold across lines. I would really like to know just how much revenue is generated by them and what role, in any, these sales play in a company’s decision to continue a title. I mean, how much of each month’s sale of ads is a given title supposed to account for?
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
David:
My bad on the profit. Of course, they’re going to want to make money. As far as the royalties, I’ve heard of deals that don’t start paying until a “magic number” is reached. But maybe that doesn’t apply anymore. Or it’s different from creator to creator. Or my memory and comprehension are worse than I initially thought.
Also, publishers aren’t the only ones spoiled by the current system. You’re talking about retailers, as well, who haven’t exactly embraced the OGN. And don’t forget Diamond’s stake in a steady stream of product to deliver each week.
And I disagree with lumping creators into that “spoiled” group. If they could get paid an advance to do two OGNs a year, they’d jump at it. There aren’t deals like that out there that I’m aware of. At least not from your Marvels and your DCs. Hell, I have a friend doing a book for Image who won’t see any $$ until 3 to 6 months after the book hits the stands.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I wrap presents with them.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Joe:
You’re right, I shouldn’t have lumped all creators together. Just bigger names at Marvel and DC. And you’re ‘magic number’ idea is how Image works. I think as traditional publishers move into OGN, however, they will bring normal advance and royalties system with them.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:43 am
I’ve wrestled with issue for a few comic books that I know I’m never going to revisit, that is (unlikely) to have resale value, takes up too much space, and no sick child or homesick troop would be able to comprehend. So, I guess it’s okay to recycle my 52 issues of “Countdown,” right?
May 24th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I gave a bunch of comics (around 100) to the library, and never saw them again…..freaking library.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Joseph, I know a few guys overseas, so I generally send them to those guys. Right now, nobody I know is deployed, but one of my friends is headed to Iraq soon, and he’ll be getting all my comics when he does.
Chris B, when you donate anything to a library, they usually end up selling it or giving it away as a prize due to procedure. It’s *really* hard to donate something for circulation, they just aren’t set up for that. Your comics probably went out as prizes to kids who appreciated them.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:54 am
By the way, when I send comics to Iraq I usually wrap them in the Sunday funnies to give the guys more reading material. One guy said they passed around the scraps of the Sunday funnies for weeks after getting my package. They want escapist lit, doesn’t much matter what it is. I think the troops WOULD appreciate Countdown, Rob.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
For anyone looking to donate comics to the troops, there’s an organization called Operation Comix Relief that can help:
http://www.operationcomixrelief.org/index.php
May 24th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
US Soldiers have to deal with enough. I’m not going to help put them through Batman Confidential as well.