Blogs:

Newsarama Blogs Home > Article: Quote, Unquote

Quote, Unquote

April 27th, 2008
Author Tim O'Shea

Frederic Wertham–still dead–still a hot topic. And folks continue to recover from NYCC. But at least we have apes in our future…

“From a writing standpoint, certain names lend themselves to the monkeyverse more easily than others. For instance: Spider-Monkey is just too perfect not to use. And, personally, I got a kick out of Iron Paw (who can make his paw like unto a thing of iron!). Captain America, on the other hand, is still called Captain America. Not Captain APE-merica. No need to insult him. Believe me, you don’t WANT to insult him…”
- Karl Kesel, revealing the wit that one hopes is prevalent in the upcoming Marvel Apes limited series.

“On page 101 of his book, Hajdu deliberately misquotes Wertham to misrepresent his argument. Hajdu has Wertham say: ‘We found that comic-book reading was a distinct influencing factor in the case of every single delinquent or disturbed child we studied’. That sounds pretty damning. But what Wertham actually said, in Judith Crist’s article, was presaged by this qualifying sentence: ‘We do not maintain that comic books automatically cause delinquency in every child reader,’ Dr Wertham explains, ‘But we found that…’ A world of difference.”
- Bart Beaty, dining on a steady diet of critical analysis regarding David Hajdu’s The Ten-Cent Plague

“The most comprehensive and contemporary book available, Bart Beaty’s Fredric Wertham and the Critique of Mass Culture (2005, University of Mississippi Press), is invaluable — but Beaty, too, noticeably sways his text at key junctures toward his stated sympathies with and for Wertham (and his aggressive online presence since the publication of Hajdu’s The Ten-Cent Plague has posited Beaty of late as a 21st Century apologist for Wertham). This is part of what makes Beaty’s book so indispensible – his research, analysis and representation of Wertham’s body of work is the best available by far, and appropriately multidimensional — but to serve that predisposition, Beaty misrepresents other parties relevant to Wertham’s career. My own extensive research and readings (including many of Wertham’s articles and all of Werthams’ book, save for his first, The Brain as an Organ, 1934) prevents my accepting Beaty’s arguments and conclusions at face value. For instance, Beaty’s concise summary of the comics industry’s representative testimonies in the spring 1954 Senate Subcommittee hearings simply isn’t accurate, ignoring testimony damaging to Wertham’s stance and grossly misrepresenting Milton Caniff’s testimony as being in essential accord with Walt Kelly’s, both testifying on behalf of National Cartoonist Society (Beaty, pp. 159-161). The truth would require closer scrutiny of both testimonies and detailing Caniff’s explicit rejection of Wertham’s and the Senate Subcommittees suppositions (and his belief that the comics under attack were in fact ‘fascinating,’ clearly at odds with Kelly’s proclamation against the creators of the crime and horror comics, that there ‘wasn’t room for them’ in the NCS). Again, this is neither the time nor the place for me to get into that discussion; and I do heartily recommend Beaty’s book for those who wish to read further on the subject.”
- Steve Bissette, sharing part of his upcoming book as it pertains to Wertham

“Why is that people can accept these stories if it’s about mutants or aliens or whatnot and, yet, when we use real life examples of actual groups of people oppressed by society on the whole, people decry political motivations?”
- Loren Javier, expecting more from his fellow humans. (A belated welcome back to blogging for Loren)

“Sometimes, when we publish new comics, I know that Minx will be on the creator in a flash once the project’s announced, but I don’t know if it will work the same way with Vertigo’s editors. I wonder if there will be a temporarily lull in submissions, followed by a torrent of Vertigo-rejected projects.”
- Jennifer de Guzman, speculating on what she fears might be in the SLG submissions pile sometime soon

“But it never ends–it’s all cyclical! Don’t you see? Everything eventually comes back…is undone! Exactly what happens doesn’t matter!”
- Marin, one of the Continuiteens (as written by Jeff Parker), in X-Men: First Class 11, revealing the nature of comics in a most succinct manner.

 
17 Responses to “Quote, Unquote”
  1. GQ Says:

    Is anyone going to buy this Ape thing?

  2. Matt D Says:

    Karl Kesel is one of my favorite writers ever.

    I’d probably buy just about anything he did.

  3. Primate Says:

    It’s notmal for crossovers to influence each other a bit, but I think it’s weird, and honestly kind of low, that Marvel is ripping JLApe off wholesale. JLApe sucked, of course, but that’s a different matter.

  4. DavidH Says:

    Which Ape is supposed to be the Skrull again?

  5. Zeitgeist Says:

    “it’s weird, and honestly kind of low, that Marvel is ripping JLApe off wholesale.” I have only seen the covers for JLApe but based on those the two comics are nothing alike, transforming the JLA into Gorillias is not the same as creating a new universe, it doesnt even feature the same creatures

  6. KentL Says:

    “Is anyone going to buy this Ape thing?”

    Yep. It’s downright criminal that Kesel doesn’t have an ongoing at DC or Marvel.

  7. Robin Says:

    I love how Beatty says that Hajdu misquotes Wertham and then shows that he quotes him accurately, but possibly without full context. There’s a difference between the two and Beatty trying to pass them off as the same exact thing just might betray the bias that Bissette believes Beatty has.

  8. The Ugly American Says:

    C*APE*tain America?

  9. Primate Says:

    “the two comics are nothing alike”

    So, you’re saying that “Here’s the JLA…only as GORILLAS!” is completely different from “Here’s the Avengers…only as GORILLAS!”?

  10. Tim O'Shea Says:

    Thanks to questionable source, Wikipedia:

    “‘JLApe’, a crossover through the various 1999 annuals of the Justice League of America members’ series, in which a bomb planted by inhabitants of Gorilla City turned the United Nations and the League into gorillas.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorillas_in_comics

    “Marvel Apes was first suggested as a successor to Marvel Zombies by a fan during a convention Q&A session with Joe Quesada.[2] As with Marvel Zombies before it, Marvel Apes takes place in an alternate universe, in this case one populated with simian versions of popular Marvel Superheroes.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Apes

    JLApes? Major driving plot factor: People want to return to normal state, not be apes.

    Marvel Apes? Entire universe of apes, no element of plot involves lead characters wanting to change the fact they’re apes (or so one would assume…)

    And to those of you lamenting the fact that Kesel is not writing an ongoing monthly, I could not agree more.

  11. Jason M. Bryant Says:

    You can make almost any two comics sound the same if you boil them down to six words each.

    Superman: An extraordinary man… who can fly!

    Punisher: An extraordinary man… who shoots people!

  12. Jason M. Bryant Says:

    I’m not saying that the stories don’t have similarities, but calling one a rip off of the other is ignoring 99% of what’s in the comics.

  13. Matthew E Says:

    So what are DC and Marvel going to do next? Robots? Pirates? Ninjas?

  14. Loren Says:

    Woo hoo! I got quoted! And, a very appreciated thank you for the welcome back, Tim!

  15. Primate Says:

    Well, whether this Marvel Ape thing is a ripoff or not, I think we can all agree on one point: somewhere, Julie Schwatrz is smiling.

  16. Alan Coil Says:

    The year after Apes, Marvel is going to do Fonzies-Jumping-Over-Sharks.

  17. Stirrer Says:

    I hear DC is doing a JLA zombie series next year. But it’s not a rip-off, because it’s set in a universe where they were always zombies.

Leave a Reply »