Comments on: Like DC/Marvel, but on Earth-Prime.

By: Steven R. Stahl

Steven R. Stahl — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:43:46 +0000

Jason, why doesn’t Brevoort extol the merits of Marvel’s products–it’s hard to call them stories–after they’re published? Because he can’t defend them against thoughtful criticism. He’s certainly willing to go out and do P.R. fluff, and talk and write about good writing, in a purely abstract sense, but those virtues he lauds when he’s writing about abstractions don’t appear in the stories he nominally edits. Look at MIGHTY AVENGERS, in which the latest arc relied on the “threat” of time travel paradoxes, as if alternate timelines didn’t exist, and had the heroes going after a villain because of a “terrorist” act, when the villain hadn’t actually done anything. The YOUNG AVENGERS PRESENTS specials that have come out have had virtually no plots.

Much of what Bendis and friends write now are more like porn films than the material has ever been before, because the issues are so deficient in plot material and so much emphasis is placed on making the art attractive. If they’d submitted to Roy Thomas what they’re submitting to Brevoort, et al. now, they’d have been told to look for work elsewhere, because they didn’t know how to write stories, with beginnings, middles, and ends. The stuff sells, only because readers are so undemanding that a few good scenes with his favorite character will satisfy one, just like a few minutes being turned on by a nude woman will justify the price of a porn film.

SRS

By: Allen Thornton

Allen Thornton — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:34:04 +0000

Don’t you remember a couple weeks ago on how Bendis got into a tizzy because Morrison smack talked, hyping Final Crisis while saying Secret Invasion has been done before? They are bullies, they can dish it out but can’t take it.

By: Nick Nameless

Nick Nameless — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:18:49 +0000

They’re the editors your momma warned you about…

Marvel Comics: The Bad Boy Nerds.

By: brad

brad — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:16:58 +0000

“How does it look very close to being delayed? Because Rich Johnston said so?”

Exactly. Please tell me that I’m not the only one who notices that Johnston is consistently fed rumors of DC projects being late/hampered right around the time retailers are placing orders. Am I?

“Didio invites Brevoort on stage and all TommyB can do is go back to his little blog to make cheap shots.” Ditto. I can’t imagine what has happened to Tom that he’s become like this. Remember when he used to be the “fan’s fan” who made it and refused to get into the sniping? It’s embarrassing to see him do this stuff, but I guess we all have to make choices to keep the bills paid.

By: Zeitgeist

Zeitgeist — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:38:18 +0000

“it gives me the impression of a giant bully picking on a nerd. Marvel is the Flash Thompson to DC’s Peter Parker”

If that is the case then DC really needs to get picked on, they have some of the best known characters in the world, there is no reason that DC isnt right alongside Marvel when it comes to sales. Maybe someone at DC will be annoyed enough by comments like these that they get back into the ballgame.

“Manga — the comic industry’s bottled water.”
Bottled water is one of the most stupid ‘inventions’ in modern time, it generally reflects that we are a lazy and wasteful society. It doesnt really reflect well on Manga to compare it to bottle water

By: JK Parkin

JK Parkin — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:14:58 +0000

“I can only imagine how weird it would be if my job revolved around fans and everything my company and I did was balanced against one single competitor.”

Coke and Pepsi were once like that. Then one day they both woke up and found themselves surrounded by bottled water.

Manga — the comic industry’s bottled water.

By: Evan Waters

Evan Waters — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:54:37 +0000

There’s a very fine line between competitive smack talk and outright douchebaggery.

By: Safraz

Safraz — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:45:20 +0000

Totally agree with those of you who’ve been saying the tone of the ribbing today comes off as more crass than that of a friendly rivalry. I’ve had lots of problems with Joe Q, but I also appreciate the fact that he’s done a hell of a lot to improve Marvel over the years; but when I see stuff like Joe Q condescendingly talk about how much Marvel’s sales are gonna kill DC’s, it doesn’t give me the sense of Stan Lee poking fun at the “Distinguished Competition,” it gives me the impression of a giant bully picking on a nerd. Marvel is the Flash Thompson to DC’s Peter Parker. Oh, the irony.

By: SMARTASS8

SMARTASS8 — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:28:13 +0000

I used to think the extreme Marvel fans were aggressive. Didio invites Brevoort on stage and all TommyB can do is go back to his little blog to make cheap shots. Even his compliments are backhanded. “They were a bunch of RELATIVELY-NICE individuals.” Unlike the sweet natured higher-ups at Marvel, who he counts at peers, who have verbal meltdowns online or trash the competition everywhere from introductions to books, online, in magazine interviews, or at cons. The only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner. JoeyQ, and now his sidekick TommyB, always talks about how he wants the friendly rivalry back that Stan Lee used to have with DC. Stan Lee, whether he was sincere or not, was always a gentleman about it. A lot of the guys now just sound like bullys.

By: RJT

RJT — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:14:19 +0000

“Secret Invasion will rough up DC only because Final Crisis looks to be getting very very close to getting delayed, as was written on LitG.”

How does it look very close to being delayed? Because Rich Johnston said so? Next you’ll be telling us that The Flying Friar is the most important comic ever published.

Final Crisis very well may end up being delayed, but assuming that it will be because of what a rumor column said is not exactly arguing from strength.

By: Jason Dincauze

Jason Dincauze — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:05:31 +0000

I think their talking that way about market share because they’ve already pulled ahead, they have an event that is huge and will ship on time, and it’s going to be the biggest selling thing by leaps and bounds. New Avengers has been a pretty regular number one in field of top tens owned by marvel for many months straight. That audience is dying for Secret Invasion, the payoff to conspiracies that date back to the start of this best selling book (no matter what the bendis-haters say about it). Add in the event audience that exists out there, and the thing is going to be big, with lots of high selling tie-ins and no delays in the main title, thanks to Yu. I love JG Jones, and am really excited to see him doing interiors again, but, from what I’ve heard about time table for the series, it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be entirely on time, even with the one month gap that’s already been planned. The market share is already in Marvel’s favor, and has been for a bit, but I think the projections show Marvel pulling way ahead, and they are happy to brag about it. Hate all you want, but it doesn’t mean the books aren’t any good.

By: Ian

Ian — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:37:18 +0000

I can only imagine how weird it would be if my job revolved around fans and everything my company and I did was balanced against one single competitor.

It really is silly season.

By: Alan Coil

Alan Coil — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:22:19 +0000

Reading all this crap from Brevoort every week makes me ill. He should move out of his mom’s basement into the real world and stop being so *itchy.

By: Ken B.

Ken B. — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:34:06 +0000

Since 2004, Quesada and Brevoort have been on the internet regularly, and they have never really brought up market share before, except when DC got ahead for the first time in a long time around Infinite Crisis, which Quesada then acted like an angry kid over.

By: Jason M. Bryant

Jason M. Bryant — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:29:23 +0000

“I can’t remember a time previous when “market share” had become such a hangup with Marvel to the point that their two highest profile, and best known editorial faces are bringing it up.”

Is that because it wasn’t there before, or because the editors weren’t writing blogs 20 years ago?

By: brad

brad — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:23:06 +0000

No offense, but when I hear a player mention the point spread, yeah, I think they’re looking at everything BUT the game, that it they’re only focused on the end goal – how many points they’re going to win by. Not how good the game is. My bigger point up top was that it’s just weird to see people in editorial be so hung up on sales that they’re mentioning it, in similar ways (suggesting that they’ve been given talking points) – rather than the stuff that they actually do control, ie, the quality of the stories. I agree with Ken B. – I can’t remember a time previous when “market share” had become such a hangup with Marvel to the point that their two highest profile, and best known editorial faces are bringing it up.

By: Jason M. Bryant

Jason M. Bryant — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:15:06 +0000

I disagree, Kirk. Sales me exactly one thing: People like our stuff; they like it so much that they’re willing to give us money for it.

If a basketball player says, “We’re gonna beat the other team by 30 points,” that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love the game. It just means he expects to win. So I don’t see any evidence of creative bankruptcy in a little good natured ribbing about who is on top.

By: Ken B.

Ken B. — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:14:39 +0000

Secret Invasion will rough up DC only because Final Crisis looks to be getting very very close to getting delayed, as was written on LitG.

“Market share” must be the new buzzword at Marvel these days. I remember when the shots were taken at quality of work, back in the day. Oh, for 2005…

By: Kirk Boxleitner, a.k.a. K-Box

Kirk Boxleitner, a.k.a. K-Box — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:31:52 +0000

Jason – All the same, if you’re an entertainment company, and your most frequently used sales pitch is the fact that your stuff is selling, then no matter who you are, I’m going to be inclined to believe that you’re creatively bankrupt.

I wouldn’t have a problem with Tom giving DC some ribbing for the quality of some of its stories – except, you know, from a standpoint of the pot calling the kettle black – but when your best “jab” basically boils down to, “You should like us because we’re popular,” I’m going to feel like actively avoiding you instead.

Sales =/= good stories.

By: Rich

Rich — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:26:05 +0000

That was a great panel, and it was good to see Tom B take a seat. Didio and Carlin especially were on good form, but what really came across was that everyone in that room really loved comics. Interestingly, the majority of Didio’s early comics memories were about Marvel books. Go figure.

By: Jason M. Bryant

Jason M. Bryant — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:23:39 +0000

Smack talk is not the same as insults. The marketing department has no idea that any of that stuff is happening. Two competitors talking about the horrible things they’re going to do to each other is just good fun.

By: brad

brad — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:37:37 +0000

you take that comment, and take Quesada’s slam against DC in the same “market share” vein from one of his panels, and it’s interesting – Marvel editorial seems to be seeing SI primarily as something to increase market share. Someone in Marvel marketing really needs to rethink the talking points memo (“cheap shots and sales, sales, sales!”)that was sent out, as editorial is now talking about how rockin’ wicked sales are going to be, rather than how the story might be, you know…good?