Now that the Batman: The Brave and the Bold animated series has been officially announced, director Ben Jones teases us with some details. All right, he taunts us:
I wish I could talk about it, because we have [secret character], [secret character], and [secret character] appearing. How awesome is that? Also Blue Beetle (psst - it’s [secret character] in the suit) and the new [secret character]. We also have Green Arrow and [secret character], rocking a decidedly more Silver Age appearance than they have in the comics currently. We even have some really obscure characters popping up, like [secret character], [secret character] and fan favorite [secret character]. Also James has promised that we’ll finally see the return of [secret character] to the world of animation, which makes me happy, since I thought he should have been in JLU. Not to mention tons of [secret characters], including one who’s never been animated before. And of course, my favorite, [secret character].
Don’t hate him just yet. He promises to reveal some of those names later.
Update: Director Brandon Vietti also comments: “I’m a huge Batman fan who’s been lucky enough to work behind the scenes on both previous versions of Batman animation. I have to admit I was at the point where I thought Batman couldn’t possibly be relaunched in any way that could elicit anything more than an eye roll out of me. But James, Sam, and Linda cooked up a new angle on the franchise that not only made me excited about Batman again, but actually made me even more excited about my career in animation. The Brave and the Bold is completely different and totally FUN! Just wait, you’ll see.”
April 4th, 2008 at 8:47 am
No… I’ll hate him now.
I realize there should be superhero/comic stuff for the kiddies too (I’m a parent myself), but really… This show just looks like ass.
Goofy artwork, and the claim that the show will be as much as a comedy as it is an adventure — starring BATMAN — should make any comic fan go running for the hills. Like I said yesterday, all they need now is to announce that Adam West will be providing the voice.
At the very least, if Cartoon Network must give us this show, how about also starting up a “Batman: Gotham Knight” series for Adult Swim, based on the forthcoming DVD? Start it up sometime next year, after The Dark Knight has run its course in theaters and on DVD, and keep Kevin Conroy on board.
That way, the kiddies can have their goofball Batman, and the grown-ups can have theirs. The “Gotham Knight” DVD might prove to be the best animated Bats yet, even surpassing the old B:TAS and JL/JLU shows. It could make for an awesome series.
My daughter’s nine years old, but even she greatly prefers a more sophisticated Batman to the kind of stuff WB’s been offering lately. I’m not about to let her read The Killing Joke or anything, but it makes me happy to see how much she enjoys the old Timm-verse shows. No doubt she’ll see the new B&B show as “stupid.”
April 4th, 2008 at 9:08 am
I loved The Batman so maybe I’m biased but those promo pics look terrible in comparison to, oh say, every other DC cartoon in the past 20 years.
April 4th, 2008 at 9:19 am
At least wait until you see an episode until you make a judgment. I like the Dick Sprang-esqe look. The show might be interesting. I doubt this show coul be worse than the first two seasons of The Batman and even that show got better as it went along.
April 4th, 2008 at 9:28 am
As Homer Simpson said, “Kids are the best, Apu. You can teach them to hate the things you hate…”
To me, “Adam West” is not a curse word, and the Batman TV show was a hell of a lot of fun. The teaser artwork for this show has an exuberance that reminds me of Kirby. I say this as someone who likes the late 1950s space Batman as much as anything by Adams, Rogers, Miller, et al.
And honestly, even the most “sophisticated” version of Batman is about as sophisticated as death poetry written by a 14-year-old.
April 4th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I dig it. Bring it on!
April 4th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Goofy artwork, and the claim that the show will be as much as a comedy as it is an adventure — starring BATMAN — should make any comic fan go running for the hills. Like I said yesterday, all they need now is to announce that Adam West will be providing the voice.
From the promo copy, it sounds like this show isn’t aimed at the particular strain of comic fan you’re referencing, so take a deep breath and relax. You’ll have the new Chris Nolan movie to whet your appetite for darker-than-dark Dark Knight shenanigans in filmic form. For my money, no one’s ever going to touch Batman: The Animated Series when it comes to a (mostly) serious take on Batman in cartoon form, so it makes sense to go a different way.
Batman has been produced in multiple forms over the years, and it’s the goofy, fun stuff like Chief Man of the Bats, Ace the Bathound and, yes, the Adam West show that I loved as a kid. Maybe this show will attract a new generation of readers to comics, or at the very least maybe it’ll provide a little superhero entertainment to the kiddies (and parents watching alongside them), and isn’t that a good thing? Even if the show totally sucks, it’s not like that’s going to make all the DVDs of Batman: The Animated Series disappear.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Yeah, God forbid kids have something produced with them in mind. Can we give the kids this version of Batman to enjoy? If it doesn’t do well, then so be it…but at least it’s good to see the Powers Than Be skewing their product down a bit (like they are over in the Johnny DC titles). What the comic industry needs future readers more than it needs another fanboy-acclaimed animated series.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Maybe some of you people need to relax… I did say that kids have “their” Batman too. That’s fine! I just think they’re ignoring a sizable market and the trend of churning out new animated fare for mostly kiddies (WB’s recent crop post JL/JLU, and the new Spidey cartoon, the upcoming “Iron Teen”) is unfortunate.
But I also think some of this stuff is even too dumb, and condescending, to a lot of kids. My daughter slammed the final episode of “The Batman,” wanting to know how it was possible to steal all the heroes powers and somehow stick them into robots (what, even though Hawkman has wings he suddenly can’t fly now?). She was right.
Even I knew Super Friends was really lame back in the 70’s/80’s when I was a kid. I think it’s where my life as a “nitpicker” got started.
Same with Spidey & His Amazing Friends. I didn’t stick with either show for long.
Again, have that stuff for the kids. Those young enough to enjoy it and not think too hard about it. But, again, how about something that would make a nice fit in the Adult Swim block? Seems reasonable.
And no, I don’t think anyone’s saying that even the best Batman is Shakespeare or the epitome of great literature. But I’d also argue that Batman, at his best, is far from being totally lowbrow too. I happen to love Shakespeare (honestly), but there’s no shame in enjoying comics too. I’m not sure why it is some fans need to lower their expectations and say “Well, it’s just a comic book” or “It’s just a cartoon. Don’t expect sophistication.”
If that’s the case, then why is Stephen Hawking a huge Simpsons fan? It may not be “high art,” but there must be something to it.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:56 am
For anyone turned off by the juvenile tone of this cartoon, you can always go see Frank Miller’s Spirit.
That looks like it’s going to be really, really, really sophisticated. Just reading “The city screams. She is my lover.” makes me feel older, hairier, more manly. Mark my words: it’s going to be THE film for discriminating 9-year-olds.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:57 am
This looks like it could be a lot of fun. I like the character design, and the general lack of moping. I’ll probably like it, but it looks like something my nephew will love!
April 4th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Shaun, in a year with a very grim, very big budget studio picture and multiple direct-to-DVD animated “serious” takes on the character, it’s hard to say that older Batman fans aren’t being catered to. Warner’s has produced hundreds of half hours of just the kind of cartoon you want over the past 15 years, to the point of creative exhaustion. It’s all available on DVD. There’s nothing wrong with giving that approach a rest for a couple of years in favor of something like this. Batman’s adaptability is a strength. Which is probably my favorite thing about Morrison’s current run on the comic–his insistence on acknowledging all of the versions of Batman, not just the Detective #27-to-O’Neil/Adams-to-Dark Knight Returns revisionist history which held sway for the past 20 years. The TV show and the silliest Bob Haney stories are just as much part of the character, and just as valid, as “My man Bats don’t shiv” or Dini/Timm’s “Heart of Ice.”
April 4th, 2008 at 11:12 am
One other thought… The idea of attracting future readers is a valid one, but does it really follow in practice? See, I’d say that since Teen Titans, every animated show from the DC stable has been geared towards the kids. Has any of this stuff created an upswing in newer, younger comic readers? Honestly? Most comic book-based merchandising is geared towards kids. Shirts, backpacks, notebooks, shoes, stickers, bedsheets, etc.
It’s not like the books are being sold in grocery stores and drug stores anymore, places where kids can easily access them, or bug their moms and dads into buying them. And while there’s a few titles being made specfically for kids, they’re in the minority of what’s being published.
And just where are those kids supposed to get them, short of going into a LCS (assuming you live in an area where one exists)? More than likely, that’s somewhere they’ll need to go with a parent, which means it’ll like be a parent already inclined to buy comics themselves.
I’m not seeing that the industry really doing all that much to attract children. I certainly don’t think anything that is being done will draw that many kids away from video games, the internet, etc. Digital comics would be one way, but the “Big Two” seem behind the curve on that so far.
Honestly, I don’t see all the cartoons, merchandise, and big movies driving many kids to comics. I think those three things I’ve mentioned all help to promote each other, but it’s not doing a lot for the actual comics themselves. A sad irony, perhaps, but I think it’s true.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:18 am
“My daughter slammed the final episode of “The Batman,” wanting to know how it was possible to steal all the heroes powers and somehow stick them into robots (what, even though Hawkman has wings he suddenly can’t fly now?). She was right.”
I’m sure there were hundred more kids who were genuinely entertained by the story and its playful sense of “anything’s possible” without overthinking the details. It’s good your daughter is a critical thinker, and that will serve her well later in life, but I can’t help feeling sorry for a nine year old kid who can’t give her imagination a bigger leash, which is so effortless to so many more kids. Why NOT have superpowers that transfer to robots? Sounds fun to me. I guess I’m lacking in the “sophistication” department.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:21 am
“My man Bats don’t shiv”? Wha? No idea what you’re talking about.
And no, I never said that fans weren’t being catered to at all… I just said that it’s odd that after how much success WB enjoyed with B:TAS, and a certain amount (at least in fan circles) with JL/JLU as well, that there’s been such a trend of late to gear towards kids only, and (IMO) really dumb shows aimed at those kids.
So whatever. We agree to disagree.
As for The Spirit, I have no particular interest in seeing it. It’s just not my thing. But if reviews are good, then I might check it out. Not sure what Cole’s snarky remark there was supposed to mean.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:29 am
I love how people need to jump all over my opinions, because if differs from theirs, AND jump to conclusions. Even about my kid? Sheesh.
She has no imagination, huh? Not sure how you would know that, but the artwork she enjoys creating, and her early attempts at writing her own fiction (often involving princesses, magical talking animals, fairies, time trave, etc.) aren’t imaginative apparently… I had no idea. I’ll sure hate to break that to her.
All I was saying is that I think a lot of the current/recent programs aimed at kids underestimate just how savvy today’s kids are.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Oh, and in post #12 I left an incomplete thought in the first paragraph (sorry). I meant to make the point that, in spite of all the merchandising aimed at kids, that (just like the cartoons) I’m not at all certain it’s doing anything to convince kids to seek out and read comics.
Comics aren’t exactly making inroads on video games, “Yu-Gi-Oh” type games (do kids still play that? No idea) that are easily found in all kinds of stores, etc.
April 4th, 2008 at 11:48 am
1) I agree with you, Shaun that cartoons are not likely to drive kids to comics. No real evidence of it from any of the superhero movies or cartoons. Only done-in-one books like Sin City and V for Vendetta seem to get even a short-term benefit in book sales.
2) “Bats don’t shiv” is from Miller’s Dark Knight, ground zero for “serious” Batman.
3) I think the trend towards cartoons for younger kids is bigger than superhero stuff; it’s at the network level. And while many of those shows have been bad to mediocre, this particular Batman show–based on the very limited information we have now–looks like its heart is in the right place. The Brave and the Bold comic was as goofy as all get-out. And as many other posters have said, I’m betting Batman plays the grumpy straight man.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Hey Cole:
1.) Exactly. Expect even bigger sales than normal for Watchmen next year. But those are books easily found in “real book” bookstores. Few of those stores carry many, if any, comic stuff for kids.
I even worked part time at a bookshop a few years ago, for extra money and the sweet discount. We had the usual Watchmen, V for Vendetta stuff, a small handful of DC/Marvel “men in tights” stuff, some Harvey Pekar, and a fair amount of more artsy, offbeat “adult” graphic novel fare. You know, stuff with lots of sex and drugs.
But we had parents coming asking about Superman books for their kids. This was right after Supes Returns came out. We had nothing to sell to these people. We weren’t getting inundated with people, but we had a few requests. I was able to order some good stuff for these folks, but the point is that even those shops aren’t catering to potential younger readers. A shame, really.
2.) Y’know… After I thought about the “Bats don’t shiv” line it occurred to me that it was probably from DKR. I just hadn’t taken time to look it up on Wikipedia or anything. I love DKR, but I haven’t dug it up or read it in a few years. Perhaps I’ll do just that this weekend! My daugher is not yet ready for it though.
3.) I’ll agree that, as much as I loathe the new B&B concept, it’s heart probably is in the right place. Blue Beetle will probably be much like Flash was on JLU, but goofier, and Bats will be “grumpy straight man” to him. It might be decent kiddie fare. I just won’t be checking it out.
Ah heck… I have better things to do than watch Saturday morning cartoons anyhow. But, we did try to watch the new Spidey cartoon. It had some potential in places, but it didn’t flip my switch or my daughter’s. Alas.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Shaun hates something based on almost no information?
Oh good. I wasn’t sure it was a day ending in the letter ‘y’.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Lord forbid that people do a cartoon for children based on a character created for juvenille entertainment! Don’t they publish enough gritty depressing Batman comics in one month to satisfy the fan entitlement set?
The next thing you know, they will be wanting to replace those fun rides at Six Flags with a Batman Waterboarding Torture-Plex, to keep in line with the personal fan-fiction ideals of the “Dark Knight”.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
cool, I am looking forward to it
April 4th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Hey Jason, I comment on plenty of things I like. Nice selectivity on your part. So, y’know, unless you have something useful to add get off my case. Jerk.
April 4th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
A Batman “Waterboarding Torture-Plex”? Intriguing idea, but I’ll pass. I’d say watching B&B — based on the premise presented here — might be torture enough.
But AGAIN, for those you who seemed to miss it, I freely admitted that there should be DC/Marvel toons for the kids too. I’ve merely been stating that I hope this isn’t a trend that starts ignoring the adults.
Interesting that there really aren’t any forums out there like the ‘Rama for kids to discuss this stuff though. Obviously, it would have to take a very different approach, but it begs the question (yet again) of who this stuff is for, and if there isn’t a disconnect out there in terms in trying to reach kids.
Anyhow, it’s Friday, and I’m done. Feel free to rejoice. No more having to endure someone’s freedom to have an opinion, or at least MY opinion.
April 4th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
“So, y’know, unless you have something useful to add get off my case.”
Something useful to add? Coming from the guy who screamed about the JLA movie in a completely unrelated thread, that’s funny.
http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/03/03/is-there-still-a-supergirl-movie-in-the-works/#comments
Shaun, I’m still waiting for *you* to add something useful to a conversation. And no, whining about how horrible everything is going to be because it isn’t exactly what you want isn’t useful.
April 4th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
“Also Blue Beetle (psst - it’s [secret character] in the suit)”
…if It’s not Jaime in there I will be so disappointed.
April 4th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
“Lord forbid that people do a cartoon for children based on a character created for juvenille entertainment! Don’t they publish enough gritty depressing Batman comics in one month to satisfy the fan entitlement set?”
This is exactly how I feel. Frank Miller was the worst thing to ever happen to Batman (strip away all the humanity and fun and repalce it with sadism and bleakness), and I’m tired of having that approach crammed down our throats ad nauseum. Honestly, does anyone else rmember Batman stories being FUN? Having comedy and family love as a counterbalance to the action and noir aspects? The Golden Age comics were xctly that, as was much of the Bronze Age. I think the original [i]Batman: The Animated Seies[/i] did a fine job distilling all that into a dramatic whole, but let’s be honest; sometimes you need to lighten up and have some fun with the character. The Adam West show is very much a product of its time, but on its own merits the first two seasons are extremely good, and had a lot of the old-school Batman flavor regardless of the spoof trappings. Now I don’t expect this cartoon to be quite as satirical, nor do I want it to be (again, the West show was designed for its era). But a lightheatered, more playful Batman series can and should work in this day and age. Do it like the old Golden Age comics, and you’ve got a winner.
“Why are they neglecting us?” Um…excuse me? You’ve got Nolan making fawning love letters to Miller, with unhealthy does of Burton, Schumacher, and generic slasher flick tripe added in. You’ve got obsessively bleak comics, the most popular of which is showing a Batman who brags about how he’s going to waste the entire JLA, where he abuses Robin and tries to feed him rats, mows down cops in the Batmobile and brags about how he’s “THE GODDAMN BATMAN.” You’ve GOT your Batman. Why can’t there be a fun, lighthearted Batman? Or are we going back to the “if it predates Miller, it’s campy crap” school of thought?