So this week a panel from Mighty Avengers #11 has surfaced from the depths of the blogosphere, with a piece of Doom’s dialogue drawing harsh criticism:
Naughty language below the cut
You do understand? You mean nothing to me! You’re a fat piece of furniture I may need for trade! So shut your cow-mouth or I’ll remove your face by hand before I stop your whore heart!
Now, a number of people have fretted as to the nature of the dialogue, the judgments on Ms. Marvel’s body and sexual habits, because it is very clearly misogynistic. The dialogue itself is misogynistic, there is no doubt about that.
Now, is it INAPPROPRIATELY misogynistic? There is such a thing as characterization, after all. And Dr. Doom is a bad guy. So the attitude is proper. And I’ve heard, in even darker corners of the internet, that the “Feminists are overreacting here, because Doom is a dick.”
The problem is one of dialogue, though, and most complaints see this. As livejournaller Kali states, “Doom is never base.” It’s Doom swearing because it sounds “edgy” and “clever” to the writer. This sort of language is what a “badass supervillian” says in the world of Brian Michael Bendis.
Without making judgments as to whether or not Mr. Bendis feels that being a “badass supervillain” is admirable or not, there’s nothing wrong with an asshole sounding like an asshole. It’s indicative of a larger issue, and the problem is not the attitude towards women. The problem with this, as with the vast majority of what Mr. Bendis writes, is a lack of diversity.
Diversity in character, that is. Victor Von Doom speaks with the same meter and slang as an NYC street hood. Doom’s a very different sort of villain, from a different background, from a different country, from a different “school of evil” so to speak. He’s always been refined in his arrogance, and old-fashioned. I could certainly see the words “stop your whore heart” coming from this character (though “before I tear out your heart from your whore’s breast!” is more his style), but “shut your cow mouth”? Certainly not. Doom says cheesy things like “SILENCE, WOMAN!”
But Doom is, at Marvel, the prototype “Badass Supervillain” and to some writers “Badass Supervillains” say certain things. That’s how you know they’re badass. So the same sort of dialogue that’s given to the Hood goes to Victor Von Doom, perhaps with “whore” exchanged for “bitch” in an attempt to add character flavor.
I remember when I first started reading Mr. Bendis’ work. How fresh and interesting his approach to dialogue seemed. It was natural. We need people who talked this way, flowing and stopping to search for the right word. He put fillers and pauses and slang in there that gave the characters a very realistic feel. It worked well for Powers, Torso and Daredevil and other settings where everyone is from the same city and socioeconomic class. That they would all have the same speaking pattern makes sense, even people of different backgrounds had been living in the same area long enough that they acquired the accent.
And it was marvelous to read this sort of dialogue, particularly with characters like Luke Cage, who had been saddled with racist clichés in the attempt to portray “street speech.” It seemed, by comparison to some of the dialogue in comics, revolutionary.
Then Mr. Bendis expanded his portfolio to include the entire Marvel Universe. And the flaws in this dialogue style became apparent. An Eastern European dictator would not talk the same way as an American super-genius or a middle-aged NYC neighborhood hero or a teenaged urban trickster smartass. As people they are just too different to sound the same.
And this is the kiss of death at Marvel, a company where character’s dialogue says so much about their personalities. Spider-Man is known for running at the mouth, whining in the narrative and dropping insulting jokes every few minutes.
Reed Richards is the smartest man in the universe. He not only uses a big word now and then, his sentences are structured around them. He’s precise and scientific. I remember at least one miniseries where he had a three-paragraph speech about how brevity is the soul of wit. It’s not just that he’s intelligent, it’s that he is so brilliant he can’t think in simple terms. This is different from someone who drops a ten-dollar word to show how intelligent they are. It comes through in the sentence structure.
And Dr. Doom is not just Victor Von Doom, Biggest Asshole on the Planet. He is DOOM! Scourge of the Virtuous! Terror of the Masses! He is nothing short of MAGNIFICENT. He’s royalty. He is always refined and dignified. He may be cheesy, he may be cliché, he may be a walking talking stereotype, but he is the sort of person who would not be self-conscious about that. He’s larger than life and understands
Dialogue is tricky, because fiction is filled with stereotypes. Some of these stereotypes are particularly offensive, and they come with certain dialogue. In the hands of the wrong writer attempts at international diversity are only useful as an argument for education reform in the US, attempts at sexual diversity end up cementing entrenched gender biases, and attempts at racial diversity come off as slightly less enlightened than a minstrel show. Some stereotypes, however, are just personality stereotypes. Writers need to weed out the offensive bits without going so far as to drain the character of everything that makes them unique, interesting and lively. They have to straddle the fine line between character and caricature. That’s hard. But the difficulty is what makes the results worth reading.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Spot on! If Doom is a misogynist, well, fair enough. He seems like that kind of “women on a pedestal until they do something wrong then they’re WHORES” old school misogynist. But this is just plain crap, like this is the OMG WORST THING EVER that Bendis could think of. It’s silly, over-the-top, and, worst of all, totally out of character.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:24 am
As you say, reprehensible dialogue within character is fine. The big problem here is that Doom sounds like a snotty teenager who’s had his feelings hurt because he’s been turned down for a date and wants to hurt back. That ain’t Doom!
April 5th, 2008 at 4:30 am
More and more, with Brian Bendis scripts, I get the impression that editors are afraid to actually edit him.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:16 am
Fantastic post, and I agree 100%. I well recall Byrne writing Doom so very well in the ’80s and his having Doom showing a kind of genteel bad-guy courtesy towards the Invisible Woman. Bendis is writing Doom like he was Generic Everydude, and dialogue like this is just awful and utterly out of character compared to the past 40+ years of stories. Where are the editors, indeed?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Well said. But, you forget that this is not for those of us that grew up with a Doom that was overbearing and an equal opportunity offender. All are beneath Doom. Women were actually given the benefit of being allowed in Doom’s presence until they proved inferior as all others.
The Ruler that shared a yearly meal with Silver Sable would have been classier in his demeaning of Ms. Marvel. It is funny that even though it is offensive to women the real overarching problem is that this is a continuation of the destruction of characterization at Marvel.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:31 am
maybe doom speaks the truth.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:38 am
In the previous issue, DOOM said “okay,” which is wrong in many, many ways - DOOM would not even say “alright.”
“Alright” is for people who concede a point. “Okay” is for people who concede a point while flipping burgers at the drive-in. DOOM does not concede points. DOOM does not flip burgers at the drive-in.
DOOM says, Brian Michael Bendis should acquire a vocabulary, or Brian Michael Bendis should confine himself to writing hoodlums.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:39 am
I think something that comes across for me in that scene is that Bendis is trying to do several things in that scene that don’t come across well.
He is trying to convey that Doom is completely terrified of the ass kicking that Iron Man and the Sentry are going to give him. It’s a weird thing because we never get to see what’s going on in Doom’s head like that. His internal thoughts when we are shown them are ones of superiority.
So he’s stalling as he puts a pan together.
I don’t think everyone got this from this scene, but what I felt was Doom was reaching with the insults. He was just working improv. It was all an act because this is kind of the way he interacts with these people that are beneath him.
I don’t agree that the dialogue Doom said would work for the Hood. Bendis seemed to be pushing Doom to throwback eastern european monarch. “A whore’s heart” is something that would never come out of any Bendis villain. I don’t think this characterization fits perfectly with previous ones of Doom, but it doesn’t fit with every Bendis villian up to this point either. His sequences with Morgana were great and I think we saw the true nature of Doom that Bendis was trying to convey. After reading that, I want Doctor Doom to be my gentleman caller. Doom bots exploding into roses. Love Notes sent by scroll. Sunsets on Titan.
This is Bendis’ first time doing Doom outside an insanely short stint in the Ultimate Universe and it may take him some time to nail the character. I know people pigeonhole Bendis as a guy who can only write mamet like crime fiction, but the truth is a lot writers are afraid of leaving their traditional safe zones and trying something different out. I love the Jemas-era Marvel because there was a lot of stuff like this and it doesn’t succeed all the time but when it does it can be very good.
Mighty may not be the best fit for Bendis, and depending how the Secret Invasion tie-ins go I can totally see a very good case for Marvel to switch in someone who can handle a more action oriented superhero team book, but I liked the way that portions of Secret Invasion has been going.
I do have to say the cow thing is something I’ve notice before re-reading Bendis and Checkmate this week. It’s like the go-to diss for a woman who wants to put down another woman. Hanging around ladies, you can do better than that Rucka and Bendis. When girls really want to be mean to other girls, they passively aggressively give them a backhanded compliment. That shit is so fucked.
“You are so brave to wear and outfit like that, it’s like a postage stamp.”
That last comment made a girl go back to her cubicle and cry.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Wha…? Bad language? Since when is “whore” one of the seven words you can’t say on TV?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Thank you for this lovely, thoughtful discussion about dialogue and character.
Reed Richards is the smartest man in the universe. He not only uses a big word now and then, his sentences are structured around them. He’s precise and scientific. I remember at least one miniseries where he had a three-paragraph speech about how brevity is the soul of wit.
*draws little sparkly hearts around this bit and loves it to pieces*
April 5th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I wouldn’t take anything Kali says as legitimate criticism–this is a woman who blatantly stated that anyone who is a fan of Bendis is a sexist, brainless Neanderthal, and bans anyone from her journal that disagrees with her. She’s obviously got an ax to grind for whatever reason, but because fandom has decreed that it’s cool to hate Bendis, she gets a forum for her views.
Now, with that said, I agree that this is clumsy writing–Bendis was clearly trying to get out of his comfort zone and go old-school Marvel with the Doom speech–but it’s just not like Doom to say stuff like that. Even when Doom is rattled and off his game (as Pedro points out), he still maintains his lordly demeanor. Doom’s arrogance never lets him sink to his enemy’s level.
I also agree with Pedro that Bendis actually characterized Doom well in the Morgan Le Fey sequences–THAT’s more like how he is. And Bendis is indeed trying to challenge himself by breaking out of the “Mamet” style that made him famous.
The reality is that as long as Bendis, Brubaker, Fraction, etc. sell books, editors will pretty much be powerless to do anything at Marvel. Brevoort says this time and again–the numbers are what count, and everything else be damned.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:43 am
You know what really bugs me? He doesn’t once refer to himself in the third person. It isn’t “Doom will pluck your whore’s heart…” He uses “I”.
Doom is a Skrull!
April 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
People have been noticing for a couple of years that Bendis uses conversational speech too much in his dialogue. The dialogue seems very natural, but when everybody in a sequence uses it, regardless of sex or personality, they all talk the same way, and that shouldn’t be the case.. Take a look at the 2005 r.a.c.m.u. thread re Bendis’s overuse of “the hell”: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe/browse_frm/thread/5ad945ac8984f646/a1d93fe204bd3e6b?hl=en&lnk=st&q=bendis+%22the+hell%22+dialogue#a1d93fe204bd3e6b
SRS
April 5th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Great post.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:32 am
I woulda been fine with “slattern’s heart.” Or “wench’s heart.”
Your points are all spot-on.
The other consideration is, whether Bendis or readers or Marvel’s editors like it or not (and I imagine most of ‘em don’t), Dr. Doom is a children’s character, and this is a children’s book (even if few if any children actually read it). Dr. Doom is the guy in the toy aisle at Target and on the cartoons. This is a “Rated A” book. As a Bendis character might say, “What the @#$% is up with that @#$%?”
April 5th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Caleb points out something that I’ve been railing against for some time - the “A” (9yrs old and up) rating on New Avengers. 9 year olds are in 3rd-4th grade. Things like Echo being gutted (graphically) on a cover, or 2 characters with virtually no history hopping into bed together are NOT standard 9-yr-old reading material.
Marvel needs to:
– re-rate the book (”T+” is 13-and-up).
– drop the ratings entirely if they aren’t going to pay attention to it.
– make sure the book is appropriate for the rating.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Well said. I still can’t get over “fat piece of furniture.” On what planet is this anything but a 15 year old’s ineffective stab at… hell, I can’t even tell what?
April 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
The overuse of “Bendisisms” is the same problem a lot of bigtime writers have–the tendency to overwrite characters’ individual speech patterns with the writers’ own style, regardless of how jarring it is.
That’s why, for instance, every character Mark Millar writes begins a sentence with “Do you know…” or “Do you realize…” and why they all come off as jerks. Or Warren Ellis having every character use British slang and speech styles, even if they’re Robbie Baldwin.
Grant Morrison does this to a lesser extent, but it’s largely a phenomenon unique to Marvel.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Anyone point out Ms. Marvel’s feelings were actually hurt by this tirade?
April 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I don’t know whether this points to a blanket problem with Bendis’s writing (I don’t think that it does), but he doesn’t seem to have a very firm grasp on the character of Doom, for all the reasons that you point out. Bendis, like all writers, has certain strengths and weaknesses: he’s strong at street-level pulp stories and strong at showing a kind of feet-of-clay human imperfection in his characters, but, I think, much weaker when dealing with characters for whom neither is appropriate, like Doom, because DOOM IS WITHOUT FLAW! FEET OF CLAY!?! NO! DOOM HAS FEET OF STEEL! FEET WHICH WILL ONE DAY STEP ON THE NECK OF THE FOOL RICHARDS! RICHARDS! CURSE YOU, RICHAAAAAARRRDS!
April 5th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I have never read anything in a comic rated by marvel that’s all ages I can’t hear on tv during the safe harbor hours. I’m sorry but people pulling this kid’s comics thing really need to stop bringing it to the discussion.
This concept and idea that comics are children’s character sounds like something out of Dirk Deppey and the entire anti-comics movement of the 50’s.
I can’t believe you are saying it caleb.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ms. Marvel’s feelings were hurt.
Hey, Bendis and your homeboy Reed: Do you, you know, actually LIKE Carol Danvers? Or is she just a woman of authority you like to make incompetent just to show your wives up when they win an argument? I’m still not sure.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I guess this is an american thing where violence is completely ok but naughty words and any type of sex is taboo? Being misogynistic is least of his crimes
April 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Zeitgiest, thanks for that. I forgot that Doctor Doom has threaten and kill dudes or that it was completely in character for him to kill his ex and then wear her skin as armor.
That shit is in character.
Also, I don’t think Ms. Marvel takes Doctor Dooms insults seriously.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
thats a clue…he’s a skrull
April 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Pedro @ 24: Actually, the whole “Doom skins his ex” thing was another gross mischaracterization of Doom committed by Mark Waid–probably even worse than what Bendis has done, and thankfully put aside by JMS when he came back to the book.
April 5th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Came TO the book, I should say.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Fantastic Post Lisa, I think you nailed it on the head.
My buddies and I were just having a conversation the other day about how every Bendis character sounds the same, and here is a prime example of that. Magneto in the last USM issue did not sound like the pompus ass that he sees himself, but just some grumpy old Long Islander.
If you think about Bendis’ pre-Marvel work he was pretty much writing street crime level stories, and his most prominent and well recieved work (Alias, Powers, USM, Daredevil) is all in that vein.
He’s got great ideas sometimes, but lately it has become more apparent that he seems limited in the kind of dialogue he can write. This proves particularly troubling here when he’s clearly just trying to show what a Dick a bad guy like Doom probably is, but it comes off like the author has some probelms with women.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
While this sounds like bad dialogue and bad characterizaiton, I don’t mind that he said what he said. I mean it’s not like Doom’s a good guy. Seriously, I hate it when people flip out over stuff like this.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Wait, Mark Waid fucking up characters?
I don’t think we are approaching comics in the same way at all buddy. I’m sorry, but I just can’t get behind this idea. Waid’s not infallible but that FF run is pretty dead on for me.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Excellently written, Lisa.
Ala Randi Rhodes, Bendis should be suspended for this.
But even more, any and all editors who allowed it to go through should be fired.
This is just crap writing and crap characterization, the kind of stuff one would expect to find in self-published fan-fic.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Alan Coil @ 31: That’s a dumb thing to say, even for the internet.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Relax people. This is obviously a Doom-bot that’s had his language button set to “pimp”.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Sorry, I just stop taking anyone seriously the second I see the word “livejournal”.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
AH yes, “Unthinkable”, Unthinkable, that he’d skin his girlfriend’s skin off to…
…kidnap Franklin Richards. Because no one’s EVER DONE THAT BEFORE!
April 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Dave@34 — So I take it when you get a package in the mail that’s wrapped in an ugly color you toss it in the trash without opening it.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
The moment in the previous issue that Doom was quoted using the word “okay” ought to have been a clue of something being off, no?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Pedro,
Well, luckily I don’t need your support.
In all seriousness, Waid’s run on FF was fantastic (so to speak), but the “Unthinkable” arc was a huge misstep in terms of how it played Doom. It just didn’t gel with the character or how he operates.
April 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Dave@34 - Right. Because nothing of value ever happens on Livejournal, like say the entire Act-i-vate movement. Whenever you try to invalidate an entire community you really just devalue your own opinions.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Please, people, your ignorance shows. Go back and actually READ past appearances of Doom. In Secret Wars (from the 1980s, NOT written by Bendis) Doom constantly refers to Volcana (a plus-sized woman) as a cow. He is an EVIL man, and therefore will say EVIL things.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
So he called Volcana a cow. Did he go off in a rant better suited to the Vulture?
It’s not simply the words at issue, i’s the tone that panel sets and how it’s so at odds with the idea most Marvel fans have in their heads about Doom. He’s one of Marvel’s great villains and this kind of petty exchange devalues him. Not only for the readers but for Marvel too.
I can’t, for the life of me, understand why Marvel is at all okay with this kind of abuse of it’s property. Actually, I can. It seems to be a company with short term goals and no plans for developing a loyal audience for the long term. It’s all one night stands with the readership that leaves us feeling dirty and in need of a shower.
My question, why is Doom talking to Carol’s ass?
April 5th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
I have no problem with the intent, but that seems like nothing doom would say. Why would Dr. Doom need to trade his furniture? He could drop that shit on the curb and use a combination of sorcery and science to make a new couch!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
I’m voting: SKRULL
April 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Wow. Did someone actually point to Secret Wars as justification for something, and an instance of valid characterization for Doctor Doom (or indeed anyone)?
April 5th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I agree with this post completely. I’m no fan of this “edgy” “modern” “realistic” dialog. I like campy, retro, stentorian, comic-booky dialog, like Doom talking in the third person, Thor with the gratuitous thee and thous etc. If I want whore this, etc., I’ll watch a crappy movie, thanks.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Thanks, gopher, appreciate the input.
Even if Marvel says “Ha! It’s a Skrull!”, this type of writing should not be allowed in general audience books.
Make the entire line MAX, or write it better.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Didn’t Byrne try to completely retcon out Doom’s appearance in Secret Wars as some other guy?
April 5th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
enough with the crying PC whiners, so sick of their whining. Who the hell cares what he said, he’s a damn villain in a effing comic book.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
This post is dead on, and I think everything’s pretty much been said above…
…so I’ll just add that Bendis’s “the hell” thing (that has rubbed off on other writers) drives me BOOKOO BANANAS. Pineapples, even. Nobody in the whole damn world says that, unless they’ve been reading Bendis comics. I mean what the…
April 6th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Tralfaz, did you actually read the post? It’s nothing to with PC, it’s everything to do with getting the voice of the character right. Granted, there’s room for debate as to that.
And Martin, when did Kali ever say that all Bendis fans were misogynists?
April 6th, 2008 at 12:59 am
I’m starting to realize that there must be people in the world who buy Mighty Avengers and think it’s going to be worth reading. Are these people from another planet? They’re not allowed to vote, right?
April 6th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Evan,
Right here, in fact: http://boztopia.livejournal.com/1031276.html#cutid1
Her argument is that every true intelligent fan of comics (in her estimation of intelligence) obviously hates Bendis, and if you don’t see the inherent sexism in everything he does, you’re sexist yourself. When I opposed the point, she banned me from her LJ. A friend of mine as well.
It really sabotaged what was a very valid argument–that Tigra as a character was mishandled–by making the correlation that intelligent people can’t possibly be a fan of his work, and calling everyone who disagrees with her viewpoint a sexist.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:23 am
“Caleb points out something that I’ve been railing against for some time - the “A” (9yrs old and up) rating on New Avengers. 9 year olds are in 3rd-4th grade. Things like Echo being gutted (graphically) on a cover, or 2 characters with virtually no history hopping into bed together are NOT standard 9-yr-old reading material.”
When I was in 3rd-4th grade…
-Cyclops was justifying to Jean why it was okay for him to enjoy being seduced by Psylocke (”I’m a MAN”).
-Psylocke was decapitated (It was only an illusion, but the panel was still psylocke’s head severed from her body).
And these were with the comics code. If you want inappropriate depictions of sex and violence you should read the comics my grandpa read when HE was 9.
Oh and to stay on topic. Doom has to be a skrull. His dialogue in Mighty was cringe worthy.
April 6th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Ah, I see. Martin, it seems you weren’t banned from Kali’s LJ for liking Bendis, you were banned for making it into a dramatic flamewar.
And now you’re stalking her.
April 6th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I think Pedro nailed it up above, folks. Doom’s desperate and pissed off. His country is under attack from America’s biggest super-bastards in retaliation for an attack he didn’t launch, he’s barely got the situation under control, and his veneer of old-world nobility cracks. He’s really reaching with that insult, desperate to get her to shut up so he can think. It’s not the best he can do, and even Ms Marvel realizes it. It’s awkward, and she’s surprised that it hurt her feelings.
And why is Doom so desperate in a scene where he appears to have the upper hand? Because he knows he’s only got minutes before the Sentry gets back, and he’s terrified of the Sentry. Which shows that, as usual, Doom is the smartest guy in the room.
I will agree that Bendis’ attempts to fit Doom’s speech patterns into his more realistic dialogue haven’t been his best work. Bendis is more than capable of writing different speech patterns, as he’s shown in Powers and elsewhere, but he never really hit his stride with Doom. The insult from the latest issue, though, is not an example of that. It’s entirely in keeping with Doom’s established mode of speech. It’s not “bad ass”, and it’s certainly not “street,” as many here have accused it of being (if you think that, you might want to get out more). It’s just awkward and mean, and reveals what a truly horrible person lurks inside that armor. A rare slip from a man who’s about to be taken down, and knows it.
April 6th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Occam’s Razor applies here: the simplest explanation is probably the likeliest. The simplest explanation is that Doom was written, either unintentionally or intentionally, out of character.
We’re not trying for a No-Prize here to explain away the motivations and inner thinkings of Doctor Doom.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
For a while now Bendis’ dialogue has been extremely grating especially since I had the impression it’s reason people regard him as a great writer.
Someone should make a top ten bad lines written by Bendis. This would have to be number one for sure:
1. “Stop raping me!”
The character? Wolverine. And it wasn’t even in a spoof book (where at least it would just be a completely distasteful joke).
April 6th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
“Bendis is more than capable of writing different speech patterns”
This is false and I can prove it with math.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
All I wanna say is that Kali is a good netfriend of mine, and that I am glad she is getting noticed for her trenchant analysis of things.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Thanks for the shout out, Lisa. Excellent post - I love what you had to say about dialog differentiation, particularly about Reed.
Doom playing a game of snaps a la Bendis’ writing of him? Oh, honey, puhleeeze. I don’t think so. Here is where I’d love to see Victor break the Fourth Wall and have a little chat with Bendis & Brevoort.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Since when is “the hell?” not a common phrase? I don’t get the hate.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:47 am
The funny thing is that Bendis is writing an event miniseries that revolves around the mystery of which characters have been acting out of character. Given that so few of the characters he writes are consistent with the previous forty years of characterization, it almost seems like a joke that they’re asking readers to guess which characters are behaving oddly.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:49 am
When it’s used ad nauseum like “uh” it can get on one’s nerves.
@Pedro: Yes, Carol does take it seriously. To the point it actually hurts her feelings.
@Bucky: That explanation would mean that for all this time the whole bombastic, monologueing, third person-narrating thing was all just an act, and that’s even more terrible than what’s going on.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Evan,
Simply put, no. I don’t know where you got that from, but that’s not only insulting to me, it’s downright creepy. Further proof that two people can read the same words and come up with very, very different results.
April 8th, 2008 at 6:12 am
That panel alone is worth 2000 Paper Comic DeathWatch points.
Seriously Marvel Editors, what were you thinking there? Grow a pair and do your job.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
David: I realize the hate is an overreaction, but here’s my overreacting reasoning: Bendis uses “the hell?” constantly instead of “what the hell?” Constantly, and with every character (except maybe Doctor Doom, and if that happens we’ll know it’s all over). I know a lot of people, and I don’t know anyone who says “the hell” with an implied ellipsis like that. I’m not saying it’s never happened, or that it’s a crime to say it or write it–just as a reader it rubs me as trying to be cute and off the cuff. And that’s my problem, but the real point is, if I’m noticing that a writer uses an expression too often for any character, then that writer should come up with more expressions.
Ok, that made me sound like an ass but it made me feel better.
April 9th, 2008 at 3:32 am
guys, the more you bitch about this, the more bendis is going to pull a last second insertion to have a Doom-skrull reveal.
“oh, it was out of character on PURPOSE!”
April 10th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Submitted for your humorous approval:
http://lurkingrhythmically.blogspot.com/2008/04/wnw-deconstructing-dr-doom.html