Dave Sim is irrelevant.

Rob Liefeld is more relevant to the comics industry than Dave Sim…and I wouldn’t read a fashion comic book by him either.

I’d hardly consider Sim’s beliefs crazy or evil; disagreeable and maybe extremist but “evil” seems a bit reactionary and hyperbole.

More to the point, those beliefs have no relation to the contributions of Sim as businessman and creator. Sim’s self-publishing efforts and dedication moved independent creativity years forward; his Cerebus work exhibits a designer’s quality, a satirist’s and novelist’s sensibility, and exemplifies what comics as higher art might achieve.

If Sim what delivers with Glamourpuss is a just a part of what he created with Cerebus, the comics medium will again (6 or so times a year) be in for a treat and high quality work.

Disagree with Sim’s philosophy (he likely could care less, although he’ll respect your disagreement), but to diminish his contributions to the medium is myopic and ignorant.

Spectacular train crash. What’s not to watch?

Just to be sure on something…

“You can only buy glamourpuss in really, really good comic book stores. No single copy orders, no subscriptions, no exceptions”

Is he trying to be funny or serious? How am I going to read said book if I am not able to order it, at least 1 copy for myself from my LCS?

I just find it stunning that a man with such amazing illustrative talent would produce a poster so wretchedly ugly. Was it designed by a church secretary with Pagemaker back in 1992?

I love watching the Dave Sim defenders come out. Its like watching someone question the validity of Ron Paul or throw rocks at a wasps nest…

I just checked out the website.

Now I just feel very, very sorry for him.

Wagner was explicitly anti-Semitic- it doesn’t come up a lot in his operas, but in his writing on music and art he referred to the Jews as a parasitic people unable to create any culture of their own.

Sim, meanwhile, believes that women are fundamentally inferior and irrational creatures- to say nothing of his thoughts on gays. But we all know that, don’t we?

Sim said all sorts of mad things in Cerebus, that is not in question. What does that have to do with this new series? Nothing! Here is am idea, let us wait to see if the book is good before condemning it out of hand. That is evil.

LurkerWithout wrote:

“…comics most vile misogynist?”

How so?

Maybe glamourpuss will change the comics world like Cerebus did, which it could be argued brought about the alternative indy comics community we have today.
Here’s a snaek peak at a animated adaptation of that legendary much loved issue.
http://www.whatcomix.com

So true tolerance means you have to accept misogyny as just another point of view?

What does “regurgitation someone else’s misinformed conclusions” have to do with anything. Much of what he has said has been available online in its entirety. One need not read or listen to ANYONE’s “comclusions” when the actual words are available (often in scanned form from comics and magazines he has said them in).

He also views women as parasites.

If you could actually defend his points, you’d actually do so instead of saying “OMG oppression!!!!” How, exactly, was all that “Female void” stuff not anti-woman?

Dave Sim is, at best, a sad, isolated misogynist crowing out his own name from the top of the mountain of Comic Books, a medium often fuelled by the dreams and expectations of isolated, sad misogynists.

The predominant buyers of comic books are males ranged from juvenile to “old, but juvenile.” One commenter here said he could “See Sim’s point” because the poster was recently divorced. To be clear poster, what you are agreeing to are Sim’s repeated statements such as:

Women aren’t capable of true, rational thought, that women contribute nothing to the arts and sciences and that they are a drain to male creativity, power and spirit. Yikes.

Sim sits alone in a room in Canada and proclaims he has written the longest novel in history, that he is a genius, and everyone else is wrong/weak. He alienates fellow creators, many of whom have stopped having contact with him due to his increased aggression and whack-oh rants.

Comic Book Fans, Unite: Let’s not be the type of smelly, women-hating isolationists the mainstream American zeitgeist perceives us as.

I’m not saying “Burn his works and he is evil,” I am saying “His works are boring, kinda stupid, and your money would be better spent on other forms of entertainment.” -SIM FANS: Go get a copy of “Reads,” now go read Alison Bechdel’s “Fun Home.” Which was a better, more touching and artistic work?

It’s sad to me that people inevitably bring up Dave Sim’s “Reads” in relation to the whole monumental achievement that was Cerebus. You vehemently disliked it and would like to convince others from reading the whole 300 issue run of Cerebus and anything associated with Dave Sim because of sections in a handful of issues and some of his printed comments? What about the rest of Cerebus: “High Society”, “Church and State”, “Jaka’s Story”, “Melmoth”, etc…? I would think that any average comic reader would have quite enjoyed that material more than what is produced in 95% of comics.

In my opinion, Cerebus as a whole (including “Reads”) is an outstanding comic and one of the few I can say that my life would have been lessened if I had not read it. You think its a waste of time and money to purchase read his work? Fine. That’s your opinion. You’re free to do as you will. Just as others are free to form their own opinion on his work and do as they please.

I for one, was quite impressed with the quality of work that was Cerebus and was sad to see it end. I look forward to the art and story that he may produce in his new endevour. If the title digresses into some sort of continual platform for Dave Sim to spout anti-feminist diatribe, I will stop purchasing the title as I have no interest in such a comic.

R.D.: “Objectively wrong”…heh heh, try and prove that. I thought it was pretty funny, though, that you compared Sim to Hitler after I just wrote that that’s what his detractors do instead of rationally arguing the points he brings up. Sim has clearly been railroaded in this industry by many the Comics Journal and many professionals, and that’s why a lot of his supporters bring up “oppression”. ‘Cause…isn’t that what this is?

Just out of curiosity, what do you, or anyone, think of Kurt Vonnegut’s quote that women are crazy, and men are mean? I mean, he called all women crazy; he must want to kill 6 million Jews. Right?

To Undiedev: I truly believe that Cerebus is the best, most challenging and funniest comic book ever created. It makes a lot of observations about relationships and death and the nature of life that really made me think, and that I connected with based on my own experiences. Fun Home is coming from a completely different place in terms of perspective: it’s about a broken family and a woman coming to terms with being a lesbian. Something in the latter comic clearly appealed to you more, and something in Cerebus appealed to me more. If you don’t like Sim then that’s fine, but don’t refer to some objective standard of quality for literature that doesn’t exist. And as far as Sim being a “sad, isolated misogynist”…well, what is so sad about standing up for the things that you think are right, and detailing why you think that? Wouldn’t it be the opposite of this that is actually sad? If people railed against Alison Bechdel for critizing the role of fathers, don’t you think people would (rightfully) complain? Here I am defending Alison Bechdel, and frankly nothing about her work appeals to me; but why does she have this right to free speech and Sim doesn’t?

I live in the same society as Sim does, and I see the same problems. I don’t necessarily know if ANYONE’S views are right or wrong in the grander scheme of things–no one truly does. I just know that there’s HUGE problems with our society and the way it’s heading, and, yes, some of them involve deteriorating ethical standards that show preference for some people over others. Am I a sad, lonely misogynist? I’d say I’m a perfectly happy cynic that sees a level of potential in our society that isn’t being met. Is it so wrong that people such as Dave Sim are talking about this subject? Apparently, and this is part of the problem I think.

poc wrote:
“well, what is so sad about standing up for the things that you think are right, and detailing why you think that? Wouldn’t it be the opposite of this that is actually sad?”

Agreed.

It’s sad to stand up for “the things that you think are right” if said things are misogyny and homophobia.

A life spent in service of diseased ideas is a life wasted.

Poc- Nothing is wrong with standing up for what you believe in. Again, I said I was against “Burning him in the street,” or the notion he was “Evil,” I just think he’s a lazy thinker, full of himself and a bit of a bully. I’d lump John Byrne in there with him, though John Byrne, at least, never called ALL women “Sucking-voids.”

I’m glad you like Cerebus, two of my comic reading friends love it, like you. You recommend I “don’t refer to some objective standard of quality for literature that doesn’t exist.” One does. No one would argue Shakespear hasn’t contributed more to literature than say Terry Pratchet or Dante’. When you are comparing two significant pieces of creativity, such as “Fun Home” and “Cerebus,” it may simply come down to matter of oppinion, but there are still criteria in place, still a standard of quality you could use to compare them. Would this conversation be the same if I was trying to argue the merrits of “World War Hulk” over “Cerebus?”

I seriously question whether Sim or his defenders have thought hard about some of his oppinions. Logically his statements are flawed as they are too (pardon the pun) broad. And again, it is easy for someone do cry out against others they don’t understand or possibly interact with. He ranted about women being evil, about the world going to heck for listening to one half of its population demanding equal rights, until EVERY woman who worked for him quit.

I live in New York City. Big Suprise. The thing that is cool about a city is it forces you, daily, to interact with folks you might not understand or see eye to eye with. Through this interaction you learn about other view points, or you can if you see and listen, as opposed to defending pre-concieved notions.

Sim isn’t evil, but to me he’s a boring kook. You like him, great. You state ” Cerebus is the best, most challenging and funniest comic book ever created.” Yikes. I think “Sam & Max” is the funniest comic book ever created, or “The Tick.” Or early “Tank Girl,” “Milk & Cheese,” “Cromartie High” or even “Johnny the Homicidal Maniac.” Still want to stick with Cerebus? I think Will Eisner’s “Contract with God” or “Maus,” or even “Fun Home,” “Watchemen” or “The Complete League of Extraordinary Gentlemen” could give it a run for Challenging…OH WAIT, I forgot about almost everything Dave Cooper ever did, or Chester Brown…but you want to stick with that one book, eh? Suit Yourself. As for Best, that is a really hard call. I kinda think “Amazing Screw-On-Head” might be the best single comic book ever, and that was a one shot.

You critiqued me and I responded. My critique of anyone defending Sim: Challenge you own thinking. Look past his bluster and ask yourself logically: Can one man who doesn’t get along with women possibly be correct that they are all soul-sucking voids set to destroy male creativity? I don’t remember Da Vinci saying anything like that…I guess Sim is a better thinker than Da Vinci.

There is a distinction that must be made between the opinions of a creator and the work that he creates. Although Dave Sim did, on occassion, make the focus of Cerebus about his personal world-view (perhaps 10 of the entire 300 issue run), the remaining 97% of the title was not about his world-view. It was about a cast of well-developed characters, a richly developed story, history and environment that was the world of Cerebus.

UNKIEDEV – you obviously have friends who do appreciate the comic work of Dave Sim. As they are your friends I’m assuming that they are probably not “smelly, women-hating isolationists”, but can still appreciate the work of Dave Sim despite not agreeing (or even vehemently disagreeing) with his world-view. This is the ability to separate the opinions of the artist from the art itself. To illustrate this differentiation, I will take your example and turn it around for comparison:

“If Da Vinci DID make statements that Dave Sim had made, would that make his art any less amazing?”

I would think that it might influence your personal opinion of his work, but it doesn’t change the fact that the art he produced is outstanding. Is Dave Sim = Da Vinci? Obviously, not. But Cerebus should stand on its own merits (and criticisms) and not be judged because Dave’s opinions are controversial (unless Dave makes it the sole or primary focus of the work).

That being said, I’m sorry that Dave Sim’s opinions has influenced your opinion of his work to the point that you find that “His works are boring, kinda stupid, and your money would be better spent on other forms of entertainment.” It’s obviously not for you. For those of us who still appreciate his work, we each will decide on the merits (and criticisms) of his new work.

I wholeheartedly agree with BillRitter. “If what Sim delivers with Glamourpuss is a just a part of what he created with Cerebus, the comics medium will again (6 or so times a year) be in for a treat and high quality work.” I personally look forward to this new endevour.

Unkiedev – Go back and read what I said exactly instead of paraphrasing.

Here is what YOU said : “I say The predominant buyers of comic books are males ranged from juvenile to “old, but juvenile.” One commenter here said he could “See Sim’s point” because the poster was recently divorced. To be clear poster, what you are agreeing to are Sim’s repeated statements such as:”

Here is exactly what I said : “Sim is one of the greatest talents of the comics of the last 30 years easily. He’s an accomplished writer, satirist, artist, publisher and businessman. DO I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING HE’S STATED ABOUT WOMEN ? NO, BUT BEING DIVORCED AND HURT VERY BADLY, I KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHERE HE COMES FROM. Does that discredit his work ? Not at all. I’m very glad to hear that one of the most talented creators in comics is coming back and doing something no one else is doing. More power to him, I say. Thanks for some of the best comics I’ve ever read Dave ! Cerebus stands as a monument to your single vision practically undermatched in the history of the medium. I’ll definitely be buying this and I’m currently not buying any comics at all except Alter Ego, Back Issue, and All Star Superman as I’m selling off most of my collection to pay off some bills. Sim is too good to pass up.”

You can interpret it however you want, but how it was meant is that Dave Sim’s views are a direct result of a very, very nasty divorce with Deni Loubert, who later went on to open Renegade Press. Dave felt betrayed, hurt, and very angry. Anyone who has ever been through a similar situation can relate to that kind of pain. Again, I don’t necessarily agree with his opinions, but I understand at least partially where they come from. I’ve grown and become a better person from my experience and resent being pigeonholed as a “smelly woman-hating isolationist”. I’ve since met the love of my life, have a successful professional life and am active socially. Don’t talk down to me troll, as you have no idea who you’re talking about.

Sim is still one of the most talented creators in comics despite his personal views and I for one will be picking up his latest work to access it myself on its own merits.

HONDO – I placed the label “smelly woman-hating isolationist” on America’s perception of comic book fans…ya’ know, the “comic-Book Guy” from the Simpsons? It was also said with an air of Communist Propaganda thrown in for flourish. This was meant to convey a sense that I’m a fan, your a fan and as fans we all suffer from preconceptions…You did notice I was tarring myself with the same brush there, right? It was also intended as levity to a tough topic. I am sorry if you inferred I intended the comment to you or you specifically as opposed to us all or myself. My beef is with Sim, not you or his fans. No offense was meant, so sorry and relax.

Also, you are right. Seeing where a “Guy comes from” on a subject doesn’t mean you agree with him.

Evan Waters wrote:

“It’s sad to stand up for “the things that you think are right” if said things are misogyny and homophobia.”

Even if they are right?

Unkiedev wrote:

“He ranted about women being evil,”

He has said that they are clinically insane. I can’t remember his saying they are evil. Insanity and evil are closely related, however.

“Can one man who doesn’t get along with women possibly be correct that they are all soul-sucking voids set to destroy male creativity?”

I don’t think it’s that he doesn’t get along with them, just that he is finished with them, personally. Al conscious beings seek to escape suffering.

“I guess Sim is a better thinker than Da Vinci.”

Doubtless!

–
Sim is compared to many past artists but I think the best comparison is to the 19th Century Danish Christian philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. The key points of similarity are that both spent a period of their youth in debauchery and later became deeply religious; both work within a tiny context: Sim the comics community and Kierkegaard the Danish literary scene; both write against the delusions of their day: Sim feminism and Kierkegaard Christendom and both are extraordinarily productive. There may be other similarities.

Brian: Actually, some of the layouts on the panels behind him in one photograph look pretty nice, and I do like the style. It’s just a shame that he’s also the writer.

Unkiedev wrote:

“You ask Evan if it is sad to stand up for Homophobia and Misogyny “If they are right.” They aren’t. There is nothing right about Misogyny and Homophobia…”

Depending on how the terms are defined, they could be.

“so again, I’ll assume you were joking.”

No joke.

“Plus the Da Vinci at the end is a good tip off.”

I don’t know that much about Da Vinci, but I am pretty certain that Sim is a greater thinker he. I put the smiley because I thought it was obvious.

Hey Unkiedev,

No hard feelings. I get it. BTW, I do agree that the graphic at the top here looks like something that rolled off the high school mimeograph way back in the day. Despite that fact, I’m still going to buy this. Sim’s views may be kinda whack, but a lot of people believe some pretty bizarre stuff if they open up and you listen. Despite disagreeing with him on some things, I buy his work because he’s truly multi-talented and one of the most accomplished cartoonist/writer-artist/graphic novelist that I know of.

I read a brief article on CBR that said he was going to do some work on Fables ? That’s great news !