Gail Simone revisits her Birds of Prey run, and wonders about a cameo appearance that tore fandom apart!:
At the Armageddon convention, they had a pub-type thing where the guests could get lunch. I wanted to talk to kphoebe, but we sort of got sat where the handlers put us, and we were having a nice chat, my husband, myself, I think Nicola was there, and Kphoebe and her friend Jeff, and Bruce Timm came and sat down.
Now, I love Bruce, we spent a lot of time together, his family and mine, on this trip, but I couldn’t hear everything he was saying (it was loud) so some of this is paraphrased by my husband.
Anyway, we got on the topic of how sometimes it’s necessary to write things you KNOW the loyal, hardcore readers will hate, in order to make a bigger event later in the story, and we were tossing out examples where people, loyal loyal readers and viewers, had been furious.
And I mentioned the Josh thing, that a ton of readers loved Josh, but some, very nice, intelligent people, thought I had personally ruined Huntress forever by having her sleep with him. I really didn’t expect anyone at the table to know what I was talking about, even though I knew Bruce followed BOP pretty closely. But suddenly everyone was talking about Josh, and again, I was struck by how odd it is that this character struck such a chord. Now, here’s the first funny thing…at that table, though I didn’t realize it, was a huge Josh FAN and a huge Josh HATER. Kphoebe, one of my favorite comics commentators, had actually written a long piece about how when she got to that part of the story, she threw her Bop trade at the wall.
What I DIDN’T know was that Bruce LOVED that bit. He said it was a Bop high point. What I REALLY didn’t know is what he said next.
“I liked that bit so much we completely stole it for an episode of JLU.”
Now, this made my ears perk up, because I’m such a fan of that show, but I had no idea a Bop riff had been stuck in JLU, other than the episode I wrote. It turns out that there’s some scene with, I think, Hawkgirl and Hawkman, where they sleep together, that was lifted directly from the Bop episode.
Now, I’m sorry, but that slays me. First, that THAT contentious scene got used, and in the best comics cartoon series ever, no less. It’s flattering and funny at the same time.
Bruce said they got the same exact reaction, a mix of ‘RIGHT ON!’ and ‘HOW COULD YOU, YOU AWFUL SCUMBAGS?’
He said it was one of the biggest reactions to any scene in the entire series, with the positive and negative being utterly polarized.
I find that hilarious.
November 12th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Not quite -
It was the Huntress giving a sympathy “date” to The Question, not Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
No, dwf, sorry, that was not what Bruce was referring to. How could he ’steal’ a scene in an episode I wrote?
He specifically said it was in the Hawkman/Hawkgirl episode.
Gail
November 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
IIRC, when Huntress slept with Josh I was kind of surprised and dismayed, but when she later ackowledged it as a huge mistake- and rightfully so- I understood what Ms. Simone was getting it by doing it.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Gail, you were obviously telling your own story wrong.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I liked the scene with Josh, but mainly because it did seem kinda unpleasant. Like Huntress was having a bad day and just decided to give in and let it be a really bad day. Actually, I don’t think I liked that scene as much as the one after it where she told Josh just how bad it was.
Now the casual sex that really had an impact on me was Dan Slott’s She-Hulk. During his run, she slept with tons of guys. Oooh so many guys. Then at the end they actually made a point that she might have a bit of a problem, since she’d had lots of casual sex as She-Hulk, but only slept with 3 guys in her life as de-powered Jen Walters.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Except the Juggernaut. That was the most important thing about the end of Slott’s She-Hulk run: SHE DIDN’T SLEEP WITH THE JUGGERNAUT!
As much as I like The Initiative, it’s shit like this that makes me want to stay far, far away from “Brand New Day”.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
I just rewatched JLU and I’m fairly sure Hawkgirl had nothing to do with Hawkman. She realized he was creepy and a bit messed up b/c of his exposure to a thanagarian mind altering machine. She may have slept w/ Hro Talak (a thanagarian from Starcrossed), but I can’t recall. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen that.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I missed the reference - what’s the Josh thing?
November 12th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Josh was a lovable loser guy in Birds of Prey. Huntress needed him to do something once, but he’d only do it if she went out with him on a date. She did more than that and immediately regretted it.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I think outrage aimed at the JLU episode may have less to do w/ whether Hawkgirl would have slept w/ that guy and more w/ whether it was appropriate to put adult material like that in what’s supposed to be an all-ages cartoon.
It seems like the censors were more permissive w/ JLU than they were w/ JL and any of the previous cartoons. While I wouldn’t have expected it, the drop in quality between JL and JLU seems to be an effect of this.
Paul Dini’s detective stories pale in comparison to his previous stuff (Of course, the guy drawing them is no Bruce Timm). It’s pretty much agreed on that the Death of Superman dvd is abysmal. At least McDuffie seems to realize that Benes draws like some 16 year old whose main drawing tool is the box of tissue he keeps at his desk.
What’s wrong w/ these editors and creators? This stuff should be able to be enjoyed by kids, not just adults who are unable to give up some bit of their childhood and have forced it to grow up as freakishly as they have.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Hey mort, I watched every episode of JLU and never once saw any hardcore sex or graphic nudity.
Whatever scene they were talking about (i honestly dont remember it) was obviously written in such a way that any such implications went over the heads of younger viewers, or it wouldn’t have made it to the air.
And you’re nuts, JLU was waaaay better than JL.
November 13th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Mort just confused JLU with Super Friends that’s all.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
that ‘pub-type thing’ cost, like, 300 bucks to go to.. for us unwashed masses.

glad to know so many people brought their loved ones.. it seemed kinda heart breaking listening to richard horvitz talk about his wife and kids back home, or maybe I was just missing my family in syd.
And, umm.. how dare a fictional character sleep with another fictional character, thereby telling a story!
thats what ruined romeo and juliet, if they hadnt have slept together, they’d be serialized quarterly!
totally ruined an otherwise great story!
character progression? bah!