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	<title>Comments on: Everyone&#8217;s A Critic: There is no language in our lungs</title>
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	<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/</link>
	<description>The Blog@ Team and prominent comics personalities share what’s on their minds.</description>
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		<title>By: Kyoko Jagger</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-583466</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyoko Jagger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 22:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-583466</guid>
		<description>Alright then I probably should congratulate that you made some good points there. I did a search on the issue and found most persons will go along with with your ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright then I probably should congratulate that you made some good points there. I did a search on the issue and found most persons will go along with with your ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Karna</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-216300</link>
		<dc:creator>Karna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-216300</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s a very interesting discussion. I just want to say that comics study need to build its own theory, so i think the comic&#039;s definition which attach to the formal definition such as the form, the elements and other kind of comic&#039;s production method, shoould be re-evaluate. Because to build a theory of comics, first and foremost, comics itself should be defined as a concept, not as a product, neither just a form of communication nor just a medium of expression. Comics didn&#039;t seperates visual art regime or literature regime, but it also did not depend on both of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s a very interesting discussion. I just want to say that comics study need to build its own theory, so i think the comic&#8217;s definition which attach to the formal definition such as the form, the elements and other kind of comic&#8217;s production method, shoould be re-evaluate. Because to build a theory of comics, first and foremost, comics itself should be defined as a concept, not as a product, neither just a form of communication nor just a medium of expression. Comics didn&#8217;t seperates visual art regime or literature regime, but it also did not depend on both of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrei</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-215011</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-215011</guid>
		<description>The following list, which I put together for my comics class, has been around, often in earlier versions, on various internet forums since maybe 2002:

http://www.teachingcomics.org/syllabi/19.pdf

(see page 6)

There&#039;s nothing wrong with adapting terms from either film criticism or literature, as long as we&#039;re aware of the difference between the media, and change what needs to be changed.  For example, I never discuss &quot;camera angles,&quot; but &quot;angles of framing.&quot;  (I do say &quot;long shot,&quot; though, because no alternative formulation I could think of was as clear).

Not all the terms were defined, because this was just a handout for students to know what terms to study, based on the class discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following list, which I put together for my comics class, has been around, often in earlier versions, on various internet forums since maybe 2002:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.teachingcomics.org/syllabi/19.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.teachingcomics.org/syllabi/19.pdf</a></p>
<p>(see page 6)</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with adapting terms from either film criticism or literature, as long as we&#8217;re aware of the difference between the media, and change what needs to be changed.  For example, I never discuss &#8220;camera angles,&#8221; but &#8220;angles of framing.&#8221;  (I do say &#8220;long shot,&#8221; though, because no alternative formulation I could think of was as clear).</p>
<p>Not all the terms were defined, because this was just a handout for students to know what terms to study, based on the class discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Cederlund</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-214888</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Cederlund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-214888</guid>
		<description>I think we&#039;re moving towards a more specific vocabulary for comics but I think we&#039;re missing an important point-- how many centuries have people been writing about music and literature seriously?  Even cinema has a much deeper history of serious writing.  And even a lot of writing on film only comes at it from a basic storytelling perspective.

I think we have to let this develop naturally and there&#039;s a lot more that needs to be developed before a vocabulary.  Personally I think we need a better understanding of movements in comics before a specific language.  How does the work of Gilbert Hernanzez inform a reading of Scott Pilgrim?  How do those artists relate to each other.

The language is and will continue to develop over time without any arbitrary call to arms over it.

That said, I&#039;m really enjoying these discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;re moving towards a more specific vocabulary for comics but I think we&#8217;re missing an important point&#8211; how many centuries have people been writing about music and literature seriously?  Even cinema has a much deeper history of serious writing.  And even a lot of writing on film only comes at it from a basic storytelling perspective.</p>
<p>I think we have to let this develop naturally and there&#8217;s a lot more that needs to be developed before a vocabulary.  Personally I think we need a better understanding of movements in comics before a specific language.  How does the work of Gilbert Hernanzez inform a reading of Scott Pilgrim?  How do those artists relate to each other.</p>
<p>The language is and will continue to develop over time without any arbitrary call to arms over it.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m really enjoying these discussions.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-214776</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Flanagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-214776</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t been able to load Blog@ for the last half-day or more so I first posted these comments on &lt;a&gt;my own blog&lt;/a&gt; (where they still are, along with a couple of pictures and a lame joke):

Is criticism of art in comics inhibited by ignorance of art-critical vocabulary?  More likely, it reflects a lack of engagement with, and sensitivity to, drawing and colour.  Much of the vocabulary of art criticism simply takes straightforward concepts and gives them an Italian label.  If I write of Alex Toth’s chiaroscuro, or the challenge of inking Gene Colan’s sfumato pencils, I gain nothing over writing of Toth’s organisation of light and dark on the page, or of Colan’s hazily shaded pencilling.

Colour theory is a little harder to express in concise English, but that is not, I think, why I tend to neglect colour when I write about comics: rather, I am not very sensitive to colour, and tend to have little interesting to say about it.  But if I did witter on about “complementary colour” or somesuch, at least a hypothetical confused reader could look the term up in the dictionary and find a definition that applies precisely.

Dangers emerge when we borrow terms that do not make a perfect fit with comics, and either carry misleading overtones or change their meaning as a result.  This is particularly true of the language of film criticism.  If we talk about “camera angles”, we imply the existence of an objective mechanism recording something that already exists, which is, generally speaking, not a good description of a comics artist.  If we talk about “cutting” and “panning”, we get tangled in the different relationships that cinema and comics have with time.  For example, in a film, a pan must be a movement through both time and space.  In a comic, a sequence of panels showing physically adjacent parts of a scene need not have any fixed chronological pattern.

Now, there are many comic books that seem to want to be second-rate impersonations of cinema – I have even seen “it looks like a storyboard” used as praise – but I doubt we can put the blame for that onto intellectual limitations fostered by an inappropriate and limited critical vocabulary.  Limited ambition for, and understanding of, the medium, and abasement before the most pervasive and financially successful means of telling stories of our age, are much more likely culprits.

Do we need a comics-specific language of criticism?  As suggested above, we already have some terms, such as panel, gutter and word balloon.  But if I were to start using entirely different terms – frame, space, speech container – it wouldn’t take long for an alert reader to catch on.  It might, however, suggest to that reader that I was not be familiar with what I was writing about.  But a specialist vocabulary is often used to exclude outsiders as much as to aid rapid communication among insiders, which does not seem to me to be desirable for a marginal and disreputable artform like comics.  Our criticism should be accessible to outsiders, on the rare occasions that they encounter it.

I have yet to read Thierry Groensteen’s &lt;i&gt;The System of Comics&lt;/i&gt; (it is in the queue behind a couple of huge books, Jenny Uglow’s biography of Hogarth and Vic Gatrell’s more general account of eighteenth-century English satire, so it may be a while before Groensteen gets his turn), but I am instinctively dubious of the need to indulge in a sudden orgy of neologism.  If terms are needed, they will no doubt emerge, but it is surely better if they do so organically.

Having said that, I do sometimes wish for a term which, like “cinematic” or “poetic” suggests a medium which is making the most of its own resources.  “Comic booky” is used to insult productions in other media by suggesting that they are silly, gaudy and shallow.  But, then again, “prosaic” and “theatrical” are usually used as insults, and both prose and theatre manage to stumble on somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t been able to load Blog@ for the last half-day or more so I first posted these comments on <a>my own blog</a> (where they still are, along with a couple of pictures and a lame joke):</p>
<p>Is criticism of art in comics inhibited by ignorance of art-critical vocabulary?  More likely, it reflects a lack of engagement with, and sensitivity to, drawing and colour.  Much of the vocabulary of art criticism simply takes straightforward concepts and gives them an Italian label.  If I write of Alex Toth’s chiaroscuro, or the challenge of inking Gene Colan’s sfumato pencils, I gain nothing over writing of Toth’s organisation of light and dark on the page, or of Colan’s hazily shaded pencilling.</p>
<p>Colour theory is a little harder to express in concise English, but that is not, I think, why I tend to neglect colour when I write about comics: rather, I am not very sensitive to colour, and tend to have little interesting to say about it.  But if I did witter on about “complementary colour” or somesuch, at least a hypothetical confused reader could look the term up in the dictionary and find a definition that applies precisely.</p>
<p>Dangers emerge when we borrow terms that do not make a perfect fit with comics, and either carry misleading overtones or change their meaning as a result.  This is particularly true of the language of film criticism.  If we talk about “camera angles”, we imply the existence of an objective mechanism recording something that already exists, which is, generally speaking, not a good description of a comics artist.  If we talk about “cutting” and “panning”, we get tangled in the different relationships that cinema and comics have with time.  For example, in a film, a pan must be a movement through both time and space.  In a comic, a sequence of panels showing physically adjacent parts of a scene need not have any fixed chronological pattern.</p>
<p>Now, there are many comic books that seem to want to be second-rate impersonations of cinema – I have even seen “it looks like a storyboard” used as praise – but I doubt we can put the blame for that onto intellectual limitations fostered by an inappropriate and limited critical vocabulary.  Limited ambition for, and understanding of, the medium, and abasement before the most pervasive and financially successful means of telling stories of our age, are much more likely culprits.</p>
<p>Do we need a comics-specific language of criticism?  As suggested above, we already have some terms, such as panel, gutter and word balloon.  But if I were to start using entirely different terms – frame, space, speech container – it wouldn’t take long for an alert reader to catch on.  It might, however, suggest to that reader that I was not be familiar with what I was writing about.  But a specialist vocabulary is often used to exclude outsiders as much as to aid rapid communication among insiders, which does not seem to me to be desirable for a marginal and disreputable artform like comics.  Our criticism should be accessible to outsiders, on the rare occasions that they encounter it.</p>
<p>I have yet to read Thierry Groensteen’s <i>The System of Comics</i> (it is in the queue behind a couple of huge books, Jenny Uglow’s biography of Hogarth and Vic Gatrell’s more general account of eighteenth-century English satire, so it may be a while before Groensteen gets his turn), but I am instinctively dubious of the need to indulge in a sudden orgy of neologism.  If terms are needed, they will no doubt emerge, but it is surely better if they do so organically.</p>
<p>Having said that, I do sometimes wish for a term which, like “cinematic” or “poetic” suggests a medium which is making the most of its own resources.  “Comic booky” is used to insult productions in other media by suggesting that they are silly, gaudy and shallow.  But, then again, “prosaic” and “theatrical” are usually used as insults, and both prose and theatre manage to stumble on somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: ADD</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-214757</link>
		<dc:creator>ADD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-214757</guid>
		<description>I wish these were more of a true roundtable -- it would have been interesting to see these folks discussing this with each other instead of just providing one unaddressed response each...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish these were more of a true roundtable &#8212; it would have been interesting to see these folks discussing this with each other instead of just providing one unaddressed response each&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Cohn</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-214744</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Cohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-214744</guid>
		<description>I should note here that this isn&#039;t the first time this issue has come up. Kelly Cooper did an article on this a year and a half ago for Comixtalk (then comixpedia): http://comixtalk.com/node/8374

She has quite a few terms throughout there, and I don&#039;t just say that because she links to my own glossary in the first sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note here that this isn&#8217;t the first time this issue has come up. Kelly Cooper did an article on this a year and a half ago for Comixtalk (then comixpedia): <a href="http://comixtalk.com/node/8374" rel="nofollow">http://comixtalk.com/node/8374</a></p>
<p>She has quite a few terms throughout there, and I don&#8217;t just say that because she links to my own glossary in the first sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew J. Brady</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/comment-page-1/#comment-214563</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew J. Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/11/everyones-a-critic-there-is-no-language-in-our-lungs/#comment-214563</guid>
		<description>Wow, this one really seemed to get people talking.  Good comments all around, and I hope this sort of debate/discussion continues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this one really seemed to get people talking.  Good comments all around, and I hope this sort of debate/discussion continues.</p>
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