October has come, ladies and gentlemen, and that means its time to talk about scary things! Terrifying things such as witches, ghosts, bosses, serial killers, space elevators, mummies, global thermonuclear war, vampires, missionaries or the most horrifying thing of all: women yelling!
Personally, I’m not so afraid of women yelling as I am of the delicate social dance it takes to politely turn down a copy of The Watchtower, but every once in a while I get the impression that certain people find the prospect terrifying.
Take Vince for example. Vince had some advice for comic book fangirls hoping to affect a change. This advice is not new. In fact (as seen in Vince’s followup post) he’s already gotten support from some of the many people who have cheerfully offered such advice in the past.
That advice wasn’t new then, either. In fact, that particular advice is the advice that the vast majority of women have been raised from little pink-wearing babies on. We’ve all heard how “you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar” Naturally, this advice was not received well. See, when you hear the same advice all the time and it happens to be advice that hasn’t worked in the last fifty years, you get more and more annoyed whenever you hear that advice.
I’d find the entire thing unremarkable, just another day in then blogosphere, were it not for something important that Vince missed that no one else seems to have pointed out.
See, he offers advice on ways of letting the comic book companies know that there is a decent-sized female fanbase. He points out that the absolute best way to get female-friendly comics is to show the comic book companies that they will make money off of them, and he is absolutely right. The problem is, he doesn’t realize that the most effective way of convincing DC and Marvel that we are a viable fanbase is act like comic book fans.
And how do comic book fans act?
They write letters. They flood message boards, blogs, and conventions. They are absolutely thrilled to see a stranger in Walmart wearing a Green Lantern shirt. They talk to hear the sound of their own voice and they write to read their own words. They devote (allegedly) 130+ IQs to analyzing symbolism in Wonder Woman. They haggle over back issues. They obsess about getting their significant others involved in their favorite hobbies. They scream at the sight of the Editor-in-Chief of a major company. They shout to get the clerk’s attention. They yell about how their favorite character was mistreated. They laugh at in-jokes. They boo the guy who killed their favorite character. They jostle each other to get a shot at an autograph or a chance to ask a question.
They criticize, condemn, and complain.
Not all of this applies to all fans (especially not you, I’m talking about those other fans who make you look bad), but as a collective group this is the sort of behavior you can see (except, of course, for the group containing you). Go to any convention. Its not a pleasant behavior pattern, its not very good manners and every once in a while someone decides to write a screed and start a fight telling everyone they’re overreacting over John Stewart in the JLA, not to worry about the idea the New Gods will die, that they’re being silly and melodramatic over Amazons Attack or that they’re just plain wrong about Captain America staying dead. I’ve done it myself several times and interact regularly with people who think I regularly overreact about fannish matters. That’s the way fans are. (Well, most fans. You are still the exception and we should all view you as a role model.)
Here’s the thing, though. No other form of complaint seems to get the “You get more flies with honey” advice. You get that advice when you complain about how women are treated, for some reason. You get tons of advice on how to let comic book companies know, in a non-threatening manner, that women want to read their product while the fanboys get to run roughshod over the message boards, the blogs, the livejournal communities and the conventions over much less weighty complaints, no one says a damned thing to them and the company eventually caves to their demands. Why? Because everyone know comic book fans are loud, bitter and arrogant, there’s no point in retaliating at the risk of losing their money.
The bottom line is that the most important thing is to convince the companies to actually try to sell to women. The more of us there are, the more attention we draw to ourselves and how women are portrayed in comic books, the more possible the idea of marketing to women becomes. They can’t simply say there’s something inherent in superheroes for men, they have to admit female fans exist. Honestly, I doubt it really matters to Marvel or DC what the temperament of the average female comic book fan is, only that she has money and there might be a way to get her to part with it.

October 5th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
In short: Our female friends, colleagues, competitors and fellow fen are acting just like us. And like Sir Rodmond Roblin trying to cope with Nellie McClung in Winnipeg in the 1910’s, too many of us are still trying to talk’em out of it.
With just as much(?) success.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:51 am
“Honestly, I doubt it really matters to Marvel or DC what the temperament of the average female comic book fan is, only that she has money and there might be a way to get her to part with it.”
Ain’t that the truth.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:56 am
“Honestly, I doubt it really matters to Marvel or DC what the temperament of the average female comic book fan is, only that she has money and there might be a way to get her to part with it.”
I’m not entirely convinced this is the case. There are leanings in that direction, and things are changing, that’s for sure, but I think there’s also an institutional culture of exclusion that schizophrenically wants those dollars but at the same time can’t be fucked to figure out how to get them, i.e. if women don’t like comics as is, it’s their problem. Lots of industries still sort out along gender lines, not just comics. In most forms of publishing really; it’s no accident that the majority of people in “straight”, non-comics publishing industry are women, while most of the editors who work for these companies are men.
October 6th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Lisa,
Have I mentioned how much you rock lately?
Ford,
That may or may not be true. Either way though, it doesn’t really make sense to let it inform our tactics in the way that’s usually being suggestion by variations of “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!”
Sexist jackasses may not want to listen to people telling them they are acting like sexist jackasses, but not telling them they are being sexist jackasses is hardly going to get you anywhere.
(Any comment to the effect of “but you can tell them they are being sexist jackasses nicely. See there, you shouldn’t even be calling them sexist jackasses. They don’t mean to be sexist jackasses, so it’s really not far to call them such a mean name.” Will be traced and the perpetrators name will be added to the list. YOU know which list.)
October 6th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
I agree with most of what is said up above. Except for the part that Captain America IS dead and is never coming back.
Super-hero comics are like action movies. Women (I’m casting a wide marketing net here, I know all women aren’t the same) like action movies when they are done well. The best Marvel and DC can hope for is to win women over by doing their books as best they can.
Of course, cutting down on the underlying mysogny and explotation couldn’t hurt. Personally, I know some folks that would read more comics if the steps were taken to rectify that problem. Its not rocket science; Have a good story with good art and avoid needlessly insensitive depections. I don’t think giving Storm tights instead of a bathing suit bottom is going to drive away any readers but it will help dissuade the objections of others.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Lisa/Mickle - while I’m sure a gentle tone turneth away wrath, it also gets you ignored when compared to the bellowing, bullying likes of Flush Limburger and Bull O’Really who repeat the same lies over and over so it’ll get taken as “conventional wisdom”. So to entitled males like Vince Moore I say, “Okay, sparky - you first.”
Go on - I’m waiting for your gentle, polite disputation of those annoying, unreasonably loud wimmen….
Ford - your comment about how few women editors there are in non-comics publishing would come as a real shock to Mallory Loehr, Shawna McCarthy and Kate Klimo at Random House; Sharyn November at Firebird; Anna Dowson at Harper Collins; Ginjer Buchanan at Ace; Toni Weisskopf at Baen; Jessica Wade at RoC; Diana Gill and Jennifer Brell at Eos; Carolyn Reidy at Simon & Schuster; Ann Groel at Bantam Spectra; Karen Wojtyla and Margaret McElderry at Margaret K. McElderry - and that’s just some the female editors Tammy and I know personally. Maybe you meant something else, like how few women editor there are in comics…?
Best,
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature of Tamora Pierce
- and co-writer of Marvel’s White Tiger comic - TBP out now
October 6th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
“Ford - your comment about how few women editors there are in non-comics publishing would come as a real shock to…”
Yeah, maybe it’s just that my focus is children’s and YA Lit, but I definitely see a lot of female names listed on various conferences under “publisher/editor/etc.”