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	<title>Comments on: Groth&#8217;s rebuttal to Ellison posted at TCJ website</title>
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	<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/</link>
	<description>Newsarama contributors share what’s on their minds.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 04:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: John Sanders</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176715</link>
		<dc:creator>John Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176715</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I get the feeling that Mr Ellison's refusal to publish Mr Groth's reply only serves to bolster Groth's point about Ellison's (lack of) commitment to free speech. This entire suit has done far more damage to Ellison than Groth's original comments ever could have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I get the feeling that Mr Ellison&#8217;s refusal to publish Mr Groth&#8217;s reply only serves to bolster Groth&#8217;s point about Ellison&#8217;s (lack of) commitment to free speech. This entire suit has done far more damage to Ellison than Groth&#8217;s original comments ever could have done.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176679</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176679</guid>
		<description>Frankly, I think Ellison's got an arguable point.  I'm not saying he's necessarily *right*, just that his position is one that a reasonable person could honestly hold.  The settlement agreement said that Groth could produce a statement rebutting three specific allegations.  His statement unquestionably goes beyond that.  There's room for legitimate dispute as to whether it goes too far.  

(Although to be honest, my sympathy is with Ellison on this narrow point.  He signed up to run a rebuttal of three specific allegations; Groth has produced a rant about his wider grievances.  I don't think that's really in the spirit of the agreement, even if he is within the letter of his rights.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, I think Ellison&#8217;s got an arguable point.  I&#8217;m not saying he&#8217;s necessarily *right*, just that his position is one that a reasonable person could honestly hold.  The settlement agreement said that Groth could produce a statement rebutting three specific allegations.  His statement unquestionably goes beyond that.  There&#8217;s room for legitimate dispute as to whether it goes too far.  </p>
<p>(Although to be honest, my sympathy is with Ellison on this narrow point.  He signed up to run a rebuttal of three specific allegations; Groth has produced a rant about his wider grievances.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s really in the spirit of the agreement, even if he is within the letter of his rights.)</p>
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		<title>By: The Dan Coyle Ultimatum</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176631</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dan Coyle Ultimatum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176631</guid>
		<description>Rich: You've GOT to track down Fleisher and see what he thinks of all this....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich: You&#8217;ve GOT to track down Fleisher and see what he thinks of all this&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Johnston</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176545</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 10:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176545</guid>
		<description>Ellison's lawyer has replied stating:

[Regarding Defendants' publication of Gary Groth's "rebuttal" statement on Fantagraphics' website]

Dear All:

Gary Groth has published his "rebuttal" statement referred to in the recent settlement agreement between Harlan Ellison and the Fantagraphics Defendants in the above referenced case. The settlement agreement stated that Mr. Ellison would permit the Defendants to post on Mr. Ellison's website a 500 word rebuttal to: "statements made by Plaintiff that accused Mr. Groth of embezzling funds in the Fleischer case ... soliciting ... funds under false pretenses ..." and "statements which likened Mr. Groth to a child molester." See Settlement Agreement. Page 4, Paragraph 6.

The grant of this short rebuttal was not an opportunity to grandstand on the First Amendment -- Fantagraphics' supposed knightly championing of it and Mr. Ellison's alleged disregard of it -- thereby perpetuating the one-upsmanship on the topic, as to who believes in the First Amendment more, etcetera. In our opinion, the Defendants overreached both the letter and the spirit of the settlement agreement. It was precisely this sort of sniping Mr. Ellison intended to quell as a by-product of the main thrust of this case, which was to correct the record.

The parties had not yet privately resolved their disagreement on whether Mr. Groth's "rebuttal" was an overreaching First Amendment screed or within the limited scope of the settlement agreement. The Defendants published it anyway.

Regarding the substance of the rebuttal: It is important to point out that at the time Mr. Groth's objections to the two statements were made known to Ellison, Ellison took steps to investigate, correct, retract and even apologize for any inaccuracy. We believe these are the appropriate steps to take, both legally and morally, when confronted with a legitimate concern about the veracity of a public statement. As to the prior hyperbole that both sides have engaged in, this settlement agreement was to put an end to it once and for all.

In the case of Ellison v. Fantagraphics et al., the settlement agreement speaks for itself on the subject and no further comment need be made.

Mr. Ellison considers the matter closed.


John H. Carmichael
counsel for Harlan Ellison</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellison&#8217;s lawyer has replied stating:</p>
<p>[Regarding Defendants' publication of Gary Groth's "rebuttal" statement on Fantagraphics' website]</p>
<p>Dear All:</p>
<p>Gary Groth has published his &#8220;rebuttal&#8221; statement referred to in the recent settlement agreement between Harlan Ellison and the Fantagraphics Defendants in the above referenced case. The settlement agreement stated that Mr. Ellison would permit the Defendants to post on Mr. Ellison&#8217;s website a 500 word rebuttal to: &#8220;statements made by Plaintiff that accused Mr. Groth of embezzling funds in the Fleischer case &#8230; soliciting &#8230; funds under false pretenses &#8230;&#8221; and &#8220;statements which likened Mr. Groth to a child molester.&#8221; See Settlement Agreement. Page 4, Paragraph 6.</p>
<p>The grant of this short rebuttal was not an opportunity to grandstand on the First Amendment &#8212; Fantagraphics&#8217; supposed knightly championing of it and Mr. Ellison&#8217;s alleged disregard of it &#8212; thereby perpetuating the one-upsmanship on the topic, as to who believes in the First Amendment more, etcetera. In our opinion, the Defendants overreached both the letter and the spirit of the settlement agreement. It was precisely this sort of sniping Mr. Ellison intended to quell as a by-product of the main thrust of this case, which was to correct the record.</p>
<p>The parties had not yet privately resolved their disagreement on whether Mr. Groth&#8217;s &#8220;rebuttal&#8221; was an overreaching First Amendment screed or within the limited scope of the settlement agreement. The Defendants published it anyway.</p>
<p>Regarding the substance of the rebuttal: It is important to point out that at the time Mr. Groth&#8217;s objections to the two statements were made known to Ellison, Ellison took steps to investigate, correct, retract and even apologize for any inaccuracy. We believe these are the appropriate steps to take, both legally and morally, when confronted with a legitimate concern about the veracity of a public statement. As to the prior hyperbole that both sides have engaged in, this settlement agreement was to put an end to it once and for all.</p>
<p>In the case of Ellison v. Fantagraphics et al., the settlement agreement speaks for itself on the subject and no further comment need be made.</p>
<p>Mr. Ellison considers the matter closed.</p>
<p>John H. Carmichael<br />
counsel for Harlan Ellison</p>
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		<title>By: The Dan Coyle Ultimatum</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176424</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dan Coyle Ultimatum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176424</guid>
		<description>I'd rather lock the both of them in a room with Fleisher. For an hour. 

Just to see what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather lock the both of them in a room with Fleisher. For an hour. </p>
<p>Just to see what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: phunengames</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176320</link>
		<dc:creator>phunengames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/09/06/groths-rebuttal-to-ellison-posted-at-tcj-website/#comment-176320</guid>
		<description>If you do not cover them will they go away?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you do not cover them will they go away?</p>
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