The collective that is Millarworld is focusing on higher plains:
“I was thinking the other day that Christianity in the Marvel Universe is irrelevant, because you have mythical figures like Thor, Odin, Zeus,Loki, Hercules or Ares running around( And I am probably forgetting a lot of characters too). And yet you get a character like Nightcrawler who is such a religious character…”
“Never underestimate the human mind’s capacity for self-delusion. There are still people who don’t believe in evolution out there. Some of them otherwise smart people. Seriously… I think that the state of the Marvel U would definitely impact Christianity. There would be all the same sects we have now, but there would also be others that would take in the new information, much an Christianity branched off of Judeism, and Islam split from both of them. There would be people who believed in the divinity of Christ, but also accepted the existance of other deities. There would be people who refuse to admit that any of the ‘gods’ are actually divine, beliving them instead to be no more divine than Hulk or Captain America, just really powerful dudes. There would be peole who worship all superbeings, even Spiderman, as gods and demons, etc. A whole new spectrum of beliefs.”
“Yeah, can’t you just say Thor isn’t a god, just another super-powered being. Why can’t their be room for these demi-gods in the world God created? As long as you aren’t worshiping them instead of God then you are still a Christian. Still, the same would apply to the DC universe too since you’ve got Wonder Woman and all her Greek gods. I don’t see how Greek or Norse gods existing must conflict with the idea of an almighty creator”
“I don’t believe in evolution. Not as a natural process anyway. What happened was the Kree mutated our genetic code and the celestials… no, wait, come back.”
“People in the Marvel & DC universes also know that alien life exists. They know that psychic powers are real, and magic too. They believe in time travel and independent flight. It’s almost funny that their lives are still so much like our own. How could a character be atheist in the marvel universe?”
August 8th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
“How could a character be atheist in the marvel universe?”
That’s easy. Pretty much the same way that someone can be atheist in our universe. We’re surrounded by things that some people call miracles: people recovering from deadly diseases, incredible luck that changes peoples’ lives, even life itself is often referred to as a miracle.
And yet, some people say those things are proof of a higher power while others say that those things are just how the natural world works, with no divine powers involved. In the Marvel universe someone could easily believe that Thor is no different from the Hulk. Once someone has made that leap, that person could also say that any religious figure was also a guy with superpowers and there were no deities involved in anything.
It might actually be easier to be atheist in a comic world. Any miracle could be explained away easily.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
CodeGuy, dining that there is a God when there is proof in front of there faces. That science and magic can confirms is not atheism. That is the opposite of atheism.
If anything they would be seen as another force of the universe.
But, despite Thor and Aries there is still little proof of the Christian GOD, so that question would still be in the air. Atheism would still have some footing.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
This is all so very entertaining I can’t even begin to describe it.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
I’m fairly certain that the second you have Thor walking around in the flesh, you’ve ceased to have a theistic debate. It’d be like arguing about the existence of film in a movie theater.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Well, Mr. Terrific is an atheist, and he’s the third most intelligent man in the DC universe.
I think just because some ultra strong dude that looks like Thor, calls himself Thor, and claims to be deity doesn’t necessarily make it so. It all hinges on what you consider a deity to truly be. Besides, they’re all just victims of maya and seeking enlightenment just like everyone else. At least that’s what Buddha would’ve said.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Toneloak, there is no proof that science and magic have confirmed. A man with great abilities claims that he is the god of thunder. Does that actually mean that the world began when the warm air of Muspelheim hit the cold ice of Niflheim, as is described by Norse Mythology?
Hercules has great power too, does that mean that the Roman mythology’s origin of the world is the actual origin?
Most importantly, how can both origin stories be true at the same time? Thor knows that his story is true and Hercules knows that his story is true. So to an outside observer, the existence of both men means that at least one of them is wrong. So both of them could be wrong.
If superpowers were real they would not prove or disprove any particular religion. They would be impressive, even being the understanding of most people. That’s also true of nuclear physics in the real world. Those things might prove a religion to you or others, and that would be a valid point of view, but it is reasonable to believe that there would be atheists in that world just like there are in this one. Those atheists would believe in beings like the Hulk and Superman, but they wouldn’t be forced to believe in a divine force that created the whole universe any more than real atheists are.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Thor is a god, he isn’t God.
Thor didn’t bring us into being, he doesn’t control our lives. I say if anything seeing Thor walk down the street would make me MORE of an atheist because I can see that even gods are just dudes on the street.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
“I think just because some ultra strong dude that looks like Thor, calls himself Thor, and claims to be deity doesn’t necessarily make it so.”
My brother once told me an interesting story about when he was in college. A student in his dorm walked into the common room, turned off the TV, and announced to everyone that he was God. Nobody argued with him because he was 6′6″ and huge. A week later he was arrested for beating up six cops.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
“…he was arrested for beating up six cops.”
Smiting. He was arrested for SMITING six cops.
As to the topic at hand, Tom Brevoort’s claimed that the majority of civilians in the Marvel Universe aren’t even sure aliens exist, much less gods (this to keep the “it’s the world outside your window” philosophy of the company’s properties intact).
In any event, as has been pointed out in previous posts, Thor and Hercules don’t do a lot to prove the existence of the divine when the Hulk and The Thing are wandering around.
Now I want to make a t-shirt with the slogan “Jesus was a Mutant” on it.
A
August 9th, 2007 at 12:36 am
“Besides, they’re all just victims of maya”
Where does Max fall into this?
August 9th, 2007 at 9:10 am
When all my comics come out on time- that’ll make me a believer.
You do have to wonder how the certain religious sects that value power and stature would adapt to having super humans in the world. I thought Gaiman’s 1608 handled this well.
August 9th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Artie Simek = Thoth
August 9th, 2007 at 10:19 am
“ut, despite Thor and Aries there is still little proof of the Christian GOD, so that question would still be in the air. Atheism would still have some footing.”
Atheism is not the disbelief in the Christian God, it’s the disbelief in any deity.
“Well, Mr. Terrific is an atheist, and he’s the third most intelligent man in the DC universe”
One can be intelligent and still be a fool.
August 9th, 2007 at 10:36 am
Yeah I think there’s some confusion between the definition of “Atheism” and “Agnosticism” An atheist believes in nothing. No higher power whatsoever. While an agnostic believes there is a higher spiritual power of some kind, they just have no idea what to believe IN. I’d think the presence of Thor and Hercules (both of whom have established mythologies in the Marvel universe that are aware of each other) would promote agnosticism more than atheism. Also it’s been established that there’s a higher power over even the mythological gods in the universes of both big companies so the presence of God is still implied.