It’s difficult for me to tailor an example that will help you understand, because I don’t know who the superheroes you love are, or what qualities they have that make you love them and want to follow them. Even if I try to give a general example, sexualization of women is so much more prevalent in our culture (compared to men) that you probably haven’t spent the last twenty-odd years trying to claw out of it a few figures to identify with (as I have).

Still. Try to imagine… a cover for ACTION COMICS showing Superman, wearing only the red bits of his costume, bent over double, with Lex Luthor standing behind him and leveling a poison-dripping sword at his lower back region. Then imagine seeing another cover almost exactly like it the next month. And the one after that.

Can you imagine this?

“Bigots always have the same modus operandi. First, they declare you inferior; then they systematically make it illegal for you to prove you’re not. In their hearts, they know you’re not inferior- they just want a huge slice of the pie.”

Joe Wily, you are a shadow demon of the Anti-Monitor.

By this I mean that you want to destroy superhero comics by preventing the expansion of their readership.

Thereby dooming us all of the joys of superheroics and condemming us, men and women, to a superheroless exsitence full of misery.

Only a being of foul evil would do that.

You can get any other genre in any other medium (and therefore comics in any other genre compete with works in all other media).

Comics were the only viable genre for super-heroes until the video games, and later movies, got the computer power to compete.

Beyond the false dichotomy inherent in the “go read L&R if you don’t like what Batman is up to this month,” what is it about the superheroes exactly?

Why always Superman and Spidey and the X-Men doing the same ol’ same ol’ when there are so many other genres out there?

You hit the nail on the head with the identification issue, because I don’t consciously identify, in the way you describe, with the characters I read, and I used to assume that other comics readers weren’t like me. I won’t get into speculations on the reasons for this difference between types of fans, but I do see a rough gender divide, and I see it apply to fans of TV shows too.

I don’t really remember identifying with the virtuous qualities of characters, I remember getting teenage kicks from the revenge fantasy, and cynical kicks from Spider Jerusalem (the last character I can think of with whom I identified a little). But I’m demographically mainstream, so I can get those needs filled in any medium at the switch of a dial. I appreciate that’s not always an option for others.

Regardless, ignorance of this difference in fan attachment has not helped the discussions about sexism.

Funny that you should bring up Coke as a “counterexample.” Are you too young to remember New Coke?

You say “fan entitlement,” I say “customer feedback.”

(Sorry for feeding the troll.)

::cough:: We don’t want to read Love and Rockets for our heroes. HELLO! You don’t have to be a MEB to want to transplant yourself into the idea of heroics, to want to best the bad guy and save people, to get the accolades and know you’ve made a dent in the mess the world is today. And since we are paying, and since the Big Two claim to offer us heroes theoretically in the female mold, we are entitled to speak our minds when we have problems with us. Fanboys whine about Iron Man’s latest turn or David Banner’s new approach to life at the drop of a hat, but God forbid women or express problems with violence and hate inflicted on characters who are female heroes.

Sorry, Lisa–didn’t mean to shanghai your column. It wasn’t a failure of your most excellently clear and thoughtful prose that some people didn’t get what you were trying to say. They came in not wanting to understand, and as true Male Entitlement Bunnies, they hopped out the same way.

I wanted to add that personally, I can deal with the sexual fantasies. I’m used to them. It’s when they’re combined with sexist fantasies that I get peeved.

The only thing I’d add is that, to most of the people who create comics, they’re (hetero) MALE heroic fantasies, not heroic fantasies in general. And hetero male heroic fantasies are basically “I want to BE LIKE this guy and HAVE this woman.” Presenting a woman that readers want to BE LIKE violates this idea, because so many creative comics folk still can’t conceive of the paper mirror being for women at all. Likewise, presenting a male that readers want to HAVE also violates it, which is why yaoi has such appeal to female readers.

Oh, and sorry for feeding the troll, but it’s worth noting that anyone who whines about longing for the days that never existed when women didn’t read comics then follows that up IMMEDIATELY with another whine about fan entitlement seems to be very lacking in the irony department.

This is a brilliant article. Thank you again for writing it!!!!

Surely all fans identify with the main characters on some level, that’s why they follow them. That’s why this is a fantasy. Are they really so detached from the female characters that they can’t imagine why someone would naturally put herself in that character’s place?

I think some people I’ve read must be that detached. They think the female characters are there for decoration and sex and honestly resent anyone questioning that idea. Some guys “just don’t get it”, for whatever reason (I suspect a fair percentage because they don’t like change and don’t want to make the effort to see why they should care), but I’ve seen some others in conversations pointed enough that, yeah, there aren’t many other options left. Female characters with any agency at all ruins their fantasy and they’re outraged that anyone wants anything but that.

I’m a big Misty Knight fan, going back to the 1970′s, and she and Colleen have always been sexified, but so long as they were strong enough to laugh it off that didn’t bother me. Because, hey, in the real world, guys tried to turn me into a sex object all the time, and I’d laugh it off by being stronger and more competent than they were, y’know? What infuriated me about the HfH cover wasn’t that it was tentacle rape (tentacle rape’s par for the course), but that Misty wasn’t black anymore, and that neither of them looked angry and ready to do something about the situation. Turning Misty Knight and Colleen Wing into terrified frails is what got me riled.

‘Tis true, ’tis true. I’ve been reading comics since the 1960′s – was looking through my old Amazing World of DC Comics the other day, and I was getting every super hero book they offered (unless you count Our Army at War or Jonah Hex, which I only read sporadically).

Oh, and anyone who doesn’t think Catwoman could do anything in those heels has never been to a strip club.

My cousin’s a stripper, but she doesn’t wear heels when she wants to get anything athletic done. Heels are a handicap, and only an idiot deliberately self-handicaps without good reason. And when the choices are “look sexy” or “improve my odds of escape,” most sensible women are going to go with improving the odds.

That said, I liked the dress and heels outfit, but that was back when the DC world was very fanciful and kind of romantic. Catwoman lives in a grittier world now, and the dress no longer makes sense. Random and unnecessary fanciful elements work better in a fanciful romantic environment than in one that is considerably more hard edged.

Reading this makes me long for the days when chicks didn’t read comics.

Women were reading and writing into the letters column of the mid-70s Jonah Hex run. So women have been reading comics for at least the past 30 years.

Trina Robbins recently said: “The direct market kills all comics that are not boy-oriented superhero comics!” http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/96900120031612.htm look out for the pop-up, there’s a hot chicks ad in it (irony stalks me).

So, until the direct market took over, when we could buy comics at the grocery store or 7-11 or whatever, superhero comics were more woman friendly and less boy-oriented and the industry did not implode. I wish comics were sold at spas and nail places. I ask you, what could be better than getting a pedicure and reading Silver Surfer? But for that kind of utopia to happen, the direct market will have to sell to more than comic book stores.

Oh, and anyone who doesn’t think Catwoman could do anything in those heels has never been to a strip club.

Mel, I can’t tell if you’re using Q.E.D. ironically or not. I’ll assume not, in which case you’ve just summed the whole issue up by completely missing the point. Thanks? And I don’t have anything against strippers if they like their job, which some of them seem to. Probably beats working in an office, unless you like working in offices. Und zo on.

Q.E.D.

There never were those days.

I’ve been reading comics for at least as long as you and I know I’m not the only woman who has. It’s simply that now there is a forum (the internet) for female readers to connect and talk and be heard that wasn’t around 20 years ago.

Now, you’re aware that we’re there. Before, you weren’t.

First, not every artist is Wally Wood- if only they were, but it’s also funny to point to Wood as a positive example of comics art since most of his women look like 1960s Playboy Playmates as Wood is well-known for his more adult work. It’s also odd that Power Girl is pointed to a positive figure when many women point to the “boob hole” as an example of sexism in comics no matter how “realistic” she is portrayed.

Many comics artists simply cannot draw more than one facial or body type. In the assembly line nature of corporate comics, artists are cogs in the machine replaces on a sometimes monthly basis.

Comics are filled with examples of characters being drawn “off model” but each artist has their specialty. I don’t ever hear a lot of complaining about one artist draws Superman as a hulking figure (Quitely) and another may draw him with more of a lithe, swimmer’s physique. If there is, it’s more just a matter of taste and not an accusation of some political agenda to make anyone feel bad about not having Superman’s body.

I do wish editors would do a better job of placing artists in books they are right for and companies were better at putting out a range of material for a vast and varied audience- but a corporation is going to maximize profits with the least expenditure of resources in order to provide the best quarterly earning report for Wall Street and share holders.

I still disagree with the basic premise that comics are “only” power fantasies. When I was a kid I sure had a thing for a few female characters, but unlike a lot of male fans I moved on and don’t read comics to get turned on- but as long as comics are sold mainly to young men they will continue to do what they need to appeal to the base desires of that demographic in the same way Maxim always has a half naked girl on the cover. And while I may glance at Maxim, I sure don’t bother reading it and then complaining it’s full of half naked women.

I know people feel ownership over corporate comics characters but at some point I quit reading them because I got sick of how each change of creator team would change the entire nature of the characters and how the serial nature meant a constant stream of endless “tragedy” which would be erased by next month’s attempt at oneupmanship. Eventually, it became obvious that the company didn’t care about “character” or my identification with them but only about trying to get me to give them as much of my money as possible.

I now read comics driven by the creator’s artistic intent and not the stock holders’ desire for maximum share price and dividend check and so these arguments seem like a waste of time to me even though I agree with the very valid criticism.

TV is filled with lots of pretty people. Studies show pretty people get better jobs and make more money (maybe because they’re the ones getting on TV). Therefore, it’s not really surprising that corporate comics do the same thing.

If you don’t like it, read Love and Rockets, Optic Nerve, Strangers in Paradise, or Eightball. Really, there are so many great comics out there with honest and real depiction of people. I mean, I don’t watch Paris Hilton shows and complain they’ve got Paris Hilton in them, I try to watch stuff that doesn’t suck!

Oh, and anyone who doesn’t think Catwoman could do anything in those heels has never been to a strip club. And let’s face it, ever since Watchman had a superhero die by getting his cape stuck in a door, I’m not sure capes are “realistic” either.

I do think a lot of the gripes are legitimate- I don’t mean to dismiss them all, but a lot of this is putting the blame where it doesn’t belong.

“Fan service” shots are there to sell original art and make an artist rise on the Wizard hot artist list- editors need to control that stuff and boards of directors need to put heat on publishers and editors to expand the audience instead of strip mining the fan boys through the publishing equivalent of mountaintop removal. Unfortunately, large corporations ONLY care about short term profits so most of these complaints end up as useless bitching. Just like when I complain we don’t need an entire aisle of toothpaste at the grocery store…

A short personal anecdote:
I remember getting into a conversation with some guy about the merits of Carwoman’s various suits over the years. This guy said he liked the purple suit with the stiletto heals and tails best. I said, but it doesn’t make any sense, she can’t actually do anything it other than give cheese cake poses and anti-gravity stuff. He said: “Yeah, but she looks really Hot!!!”.

Just another example.

But… the issue for me is the dehumanization of women. I could say further dehumanization of women but that would give me away. I believe dehumanization is beyond objectification, because once a person becomes a thing any unspeakable act is conceivable. Look at what happens in war, in prisons, in countries where women are sequestered (honor killings, FGM), and the horrors visited on children all over the world.

Krazy Kat isn’t human in the traditional sense, but I can’t think of any reader who’d want to do her a bit of harm. Zelda Zonk is your friendly neighborhood dominatrix, which pretty much says it all. She’s sexy, in control, and very human.

The MaryJane-thing statue is a fuck-toy. It’s there to be abused. The Misty Knight-thing on the cover of HFH 13 is a rage receptacle. It’s there to be destroyed.

What’s that famous line from Silence of the Lambs? “It put the shampoo in the bucket or it gets the hose?”

Living in a world full of misogyny and gynophobia really sucks, so it’s injury onto insult when the copyright holders of our heroes pimp them to the lowest, basest and most disgusting regions of the human psyche. And, no, the whole entire world is not misogynistic and gynophobic, but it sure seems that way sometimes.

Now do you understand?