I doubt this will see near the outrage that the MJ statue and the H4H cover did because ,IMO, most folks really don’t care about any of that or they would have been rallying against this kind of stuff for years now.
It’s all been about website hits and since this isn’t anywhere near as popular as Marvel characters it won’t get the links and the hits.

Well, I’ve always associated Manga with porn, so this comes as no surprise.

hey, if the publisher doesn’t think it’s a good idea to publish it then that’s thier choice.
i think what he’s saying is that publishing this could have a backlash against the rest of the genre.
one way of getting it out in english could be to just label it as for adults only. right away some chains won’t order it but it could get into the hands of the people that want it.
they could also publish it under an imprint the way marvel does w/ thier creator owned line. i see no mention of ‘marvel’ anywhere on the cover (from what i remember).
that way noone can punish marvel for something that a creator was free to do.

everyone wins, no?

Me too, DMS. Me too.

“As a policy, we at Seven Seas do not believe in altering or “censoring” manga artwork or content, so that approach, which has been taken in the past by others, is out of the question. “
————-
Bravo. Way to take a stand. If you can’t publish without censoring, then don’t publish at all. They are correct in thinking that something this socially charged would do great harm to manga’s rep in America. Japanese culture is different than American culture. The Japanese don’t carry the Puritanical cultural baggage that the US does.
————-
“Right, because God Forbid we ever pass judgement on anything….even an 8 year-old wanting to seduce a teacher.

What a pathetic state we’ve sunk to.”
————-
If Mr. Engblom wants to pass judgment, maybe he ought to READ IT FIRST?!? Consider… it’s mainstream in Japan. So maybe the actual STORY has a different thrust (sorry) to it than the description of the story. I mean, I haven’t read it either, so I don’t know. But how can you make a “judgment” on something you only have a cursory knowledge of? Or are you suggesting that Japan is a country of immoral child molesters? You seem to be setting yourself up as the sole authority on morality. Bush would be proud.

Well, I read the first chapters, and although the translation in english would be rather.., how to say, “explicit”, nothing happens, at all. I cannot say I’m that suprised about this so-called outrage, but Gideon had released Koi Kaze back in 2005, which deals with a 27 year-old guy falling in love with his 15-year-old sister, and she with him. Which, IMO, has far more taboo-value than this. OK, well, perhaps not ‘far more’. So why was there no uproar about that?

Now, ofcourse any guy who actually HAS sex with an 8-year-old is morally flawed, in any case by western standards, and probably by most other cultural standards as well. HOWEVER, there are enough kids, under eighteen, these days who do wish to have sexual encounters. If anything, this series would show how rediculous something like that would be (and, yeah, if you have read at least part of the series, which I think one should always do to fully be able to judge anything, then you would agree with me that the situations are completely over-the-top-beyond-the-moon rediculous.)

Also, I cannot really blame Seven Seas for trying to sell this. After all, if it sells, and you can cash in on it, without breaking any laws, as a company it would be bad business to not persue that avenue.

Plus, I see no reason why we should ‘pass judgement’ on this. Like so many things, if you want it, you buy it. If you have no interest for it, you don’t. ‘Nuff said, IMO.

Yeah, because it’s horrible to write literature about things that are immoral and illegal. Why, I’ve never seen any books about underage girls, or “lolitas,” as they are often called, engaging in sexual relationships with older men. And I’ve certainly never listened to songs about young girls wanting to have sex with their older teachers. Why, if someone were to write something like that, the Police would undoubtedly have to get involved.

Jesus H. Christ, people: it’s fiction. Granted, I’m sure it’s not Romeo and Juliet (after all, Juliet was a much-older 13), but precisely what is so wrong about writing about fictional characters doing things that we may find morally reprehensible? It’s not like this is the chronicle of a real 8-year-old who really wants to have sex with her real teacher. Yes, it’ll become wank material for all the would-be pedos out there, but I for one would rather have them wanking to lines on a page than pictures of real girls who really didn’t consent to really having illicit pictures taken of them.

Yes, let’s pass judgment on fictional characters for doing fictional bad things. Let’s begin the long and involved process of censoring every work of art and literature that we find morally reprehensible as a society. Because that never, ever goes wrong.

Sorry, I should have refreshed. I was responding to Mr. Engblom.

Nabokov would get a good laugh at this.

I think the publisher has every right to make a snap decision without reading the book because if they can’t see the possible controversy the said book would cause then they have no business publishing in America. It makes good business sense to have the “pulse” of your potential consumers. The fact that they pulled it, shows they are completely aware of the damage it can do to their reputation. Porting over Manga to America is no easy task.

I’m sure the book is amusing comedy and innocent of child porn, and its sad that our society is quick to think of Manga in worse light.

I think yelling “censorship!” to publisher is unfare, if anything we should be complaining about the lack of understanding and tolerance of American society.

For everyone : it’s a comforting thought, but the fact is that the comic has a panel of the little girl holding up a sign that says “I want you to come in me.” So, no, she’s not that innocent.

Interesting that Newsarama put a link to this blog on their front page, but barely acknowledged the Heroes for Hire cover debate. Marvel must have a lot of power over them.

Sigh… Personally, I have no problem with the manga but I can see why SSE would foresee a backlash. The world is full of narrow-minded prudes with no sense of humor. :p

As much as I loathed the Heroes For Hire cover, that cover (produced by a female manga artist) and this comic (a manga popular among female readers) prove the lie that manga appeals more to female audiences than American superhero comics because manga is somehow “less creepy.”

Yes, manga does a lot of things right, in terms of diversity of content and new ideas, and American superhero comics could learn a lot of lessons from the manga medium, but the problem is, I think American superhero comics already are learning a lot of lessons from manga, except they’re all the wrong ones. And as frustrating as that is, it does show that there’s a slight double-standard, in terms of how similar content might be judged in each medium.

I mean, you can’t really criticize The Brave & The Bold for supposedly turning away potential female readers, by having a teenaged Supergirl flirt momentarily with a clearly uncomfortable Hal Jordan, without also criticizing a manga whose entire premise revolves around a grade school-aged child plotting to have sex with her adult teacher, for largely the same reasons. Indeed, to condemn the former, without at least acknowledging the problematic aspects of the latter, indicates an unfair bias.

There’s a huge difference between a teenage girl and an eight-year-old making sexual advances at an adult.

Everybody out there who has kids and thinks that an eight-year-old making any sort of ejaculation joke is at all funny, please, raise your hand.

I agree with both of you to an extent, but these are not real children. These are drawings. Drawings. Fiction.

In my opinion taking something ment to be a comedy as an afront to mankind is the real loss.

I’m amazed that so many people are so anxious to defend something like this. And I second Brian’s post above. Not funny at all.

“I’m amazed that so many people are so anxious to defend something like this.”

Yes, who would go out of their way to defend the first amendment right to free speech? I wonder why so many people are upset that their ability to read a book is being threatened.

@34

I feel you’ve just summed up my feelings better than i could myself

True… there’s no censorship here from the company (only their fear of controversy). The censorship derives from a noisy group of people scaring that company so that no one else can read the material.

Counterexample: I think the manga some naysayers like is full of horrific violence and completely unsuitable for anyone under 21. However, I’m not going to try and stop it from being printed nor keep them from reading it if they so choose.

There’s another series – Tsukuyomi Moon Phase which dallies with “April/October” relationships and has some fairly explicit nudity (and horrific violence). It is publishing away with no qualms and ignored the noises that the thoughtcrime mob made about it.

I just don’t view these people any differently than I do anyone who censors material… I start wondering about their own mind goblins.

Or just maybe, there are people who CAN and DO make such a distinction, and yet they still find this inappropriate.

Well, eight years olds always want to have sex with their teachers. I believe we have one girl who explicitsly loves her teacher in one of famous manga title by Clamp.. “Card Captor Sakura”

And to think of it, Clamp always present kinky kinds of love: incest, oediphus, and whatsnot, but they still get by safely

Meh. I would have ordered it.

Wait! I retract my last paragraph!

http://www.comipress.com/news/2007/05/29/2017

These things are awful and must be destroyed!

I love it when people ask “Have you READ this? Then how can you judge it?” Just how close to a turd do you need to get to say, “that’s a turd!” Do you need corn in your nose? Portraying 8 year olds as wanting sex is NOT a good thing at any time, and the reason is that WAY TOO MANY of our children are being abused by men who think 4,5,6,7,8 year olds are sexual creatures. How many lives are you willing to let be hurt by this kind of abuse?

How many lives are you willing to let be hurt by this kind of abuse?

Show me one shred of evidence which suggests that “reading about children in sexual situations” leads to “committing pedophilic acts.” I submit that it’s like giving non-alcoholic beer to an alcoholic or methadone to a heroin addict; it gives them some release without providing the aspect which is dangerous, whether it’s alcohol, opiates, or children. And I’ve got as much data as you do to support it.

Somehow, I don’t see “some lunatic who already has serious psychological and sexual problems might look at this and then use it as an excuse to do something they probably would have done anyway” as a valid argument against anything, whether it’s “pedophilic” fiction or violent video games.

Jordan:

Umm, apparently you don’t remember your own childhood very well. Sure, it’s not politically correct to acknowledge that children have minds or hormones or impulses at anything below 18 years of age, but mother nature disagrees with you. Kids are curious, and have fantasies and desires long before it’s considered acceptable, and so they hide it and learn fear and shame which is pretty damaging psychologically. “Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed” may seem pretty sick by our cultural standards, but it’s also a biological FACT. Just because I wasn’t getting any until my 20′s and stereotypically nerdkind has to wait that long and longer still, doesn’t mean that junior high kids on up aren’t sneaking porn, masturbating, and even humping like bunnies if they’re popular enough and can get away with it. You may not want to think about it, but it’s the truth. I’m not going to even attempt to address the morality of it, but denying that it happens is the height of blind willful ignorance.

This is not to say that I have any interest in this book myself. I may remember enough about children from when I was one to list unpleasant facts to the blindly willful ignorant, but it doesn’t mean I like them any. And no that doesn’t just mean “I don’t want to @$%& them”, it means I don’t like them at all. I don’t want to be near them, I don’t want to read about them or watch them on TV, and I sure as hell don’t want any of my own. To me, the best place for children is anywhere I’m not.

And the “what affect will this have on a pedophile, oh noes!”… give me a break. If a person is a pedophile, they’re already that way whether or not they read some obscure manga book they’re probably not very likely to hear of in the first place. I mean really, what the hell? Your solution to pedophilia is to scrub the culture of anything that might inadvertantly encourage them? Gee, and here I was thinking bullets and prison cells made just a tad more sense. Has it ever occurred to you that pedophilia is already illegal, and we need to enforce the laws we already have and get those people off the streets rather than worrying about entertainment? If a pedophile is dead or in prison, the book won’t be giving them any bad ideas they can actually act on. How about we work on the “pedophiles dead or in prison” part and leave the comic books alone?

This is a sick, sick, sick ,sick, sick idea for a comic, book, movie or whatever, anywhere.
I can’t belive this thing is real.

Think to every 8 year old little girl you’ve ever met. Think hard. How many 8 year old little girls has anyone met that had a sexual persona. Really.
I can see the point people are making when they say stopping this book from coming out is censorship or close mindedness or whatever.
But what is the reason of the book? To tell a good story or to turn an 8 year old little girl into a sex object? Look at how the girl is drawn, does that look like how a little girl moves? Not at all.
I have not read any of this book, I wish I could before I saw this stuff. But it is not out in the states and all I get are porn sites when I tried googling it.

So I don’t see this comic as a form of art but as a form of exploitation. I can not support that.

If it is good enough for Japan its good enough for us??????? When did Japan become our measuring stick???? This is pure trash and the only ones who want to order it are people into child porn…..If Japan starts putting out child porn I guess thats ok too good enough for them good enough for us……What is going on people wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t really have an interest in elementary school dramas right now so I probably wouldn’t get this. However, it’s an alien mindset to me for those posters that feel this one article’s report gives them enough information to determine that this material is not suitable for printing. To me, it seems that *these* are the folks more likely to be manipulated by media into possibly taking inappropriate action (censorship instead of pedophilia) since it only takes an article for them to pass judgment on not only the work but others, expressing incredulity that anyone would speak up for it.

Aside: thinking back to the 8-year old girls I’ve ever met. Did they have a sexual persona? Considering that when I was entering kindergarten my 8-year old neighbor loved to “play doctor” with me, I’d say, Yup, she had a sexual persona. Really. Not a well-formed one, mind you, and this was probably more about curiousity than erotica for her. Does society even still acknowledge that kids “play doctor”?

Has anyone ever watched “The Suite Life of Zach and Cody”? One of the twins, who I’m guessing are around ten, hits incessantly on a girl in her twenties. It’s a running gag of the series. He plots endlessly to win her. This is played for comedy, on The Disney Channel. No one complains.

From what I know of Nymphet, it’s the same form of humor, just with the genders reversed. I don’t see a difference. If one is okay, why isn’t the other?

And one more thing before I leave the discussion (the more I talk about this the more sick to my stomach I become..the thought there is a segment of our population who condones this type of stuff is mind boggling to me, and is making me realized just how far our society has fallen):

There was a comment earlier about “what makes us manga fans mad is that it’s already been delayed”

Please be careful of lumping all manga fans into one catagory. My wife and I are manga/anime fans, and this book will never enter our house. I don’t care if it isn’t “as bad as it seems”. From all reports, this isn’t just a crush from a little girl on an older guy. Even if it doesn’t show it, the intent to HAVE SEX WHEN YOU’RE EIGHT YEARS OLD is there. I don’t find it funny on Family Guy when Stewie has his sexual moments, I don’t find it funny in any media. There is a line that has to be drawn. There is no “grey area” in this, in my opinion. I see everybody trying like hell to justify this, and it makes me want to..well, I’ll keep what I want to do to you to myself, lest I come off as an ultra violent nutjob.

But as you guys do your back and forth, realize that yes, 8 year old kids can and will be curious, and have the hormones kicking in. Nobody’s debating that. But just because they feel that way, doesn’t mean the practice of sex should be encouraged, entertained, or socially accepted. It’s a deviant way of thinking, and I think it crosses political and religious lines, especially when you’re a family with values.

When/if my little girl talks with me (in leiu of her mother) about sex, I’m sure not going to encourage it. I had sex for the first time very young, and it messed me up for a long time. I wish I had had parents who cared enough to educate me on sex. I didn’t. My little girl does. And I hope that will make the difference. I can’t protect her forever, and I certaintly can’t stop her, but hopefully if I educate her about safety, and help her along the path of responsiblity for ones actions, then hopefully it will be better for her than it was for myself (and a lot of children of the “latchkey generation”

I don’t need psychobabble. This isn’t a grey area. It’s wrong, plain and simply.

That’s my opinion, of course. I cannot stress that enough. Others (obviously) feel differently.

I hope those who feel differently are in the minority, because when you DON’T set standards, when you DON’T set limits, or draw a line in the sand, when ANYTHING goes, then you can justify ANYTHING.

I can’t justify this. Sight unseen or fully reviewed, I just can’t.

If that makes me LOWER than you guys on your righteous pedestals, so be it.

I can sleep easier at night knowing I don’t condone stories about 8 year olds trying to have sex.

Anthony L

So Anthony, do you let your daughter watch Zach and Cody?

He’s 14 now, but how many years has the show been on? Both pieces of entertainment derive humor from underage people making inappropriate sexual advances. I personally don’t care for either.

More importantly, you are aware, aren’t you, that the Japanese don’t use the word “come” the way we do? The joke is a lot dirtier in English than it was in Japanese.

Jesus Tom, why can’t you let people have their own opinion? I think it’s sick, and I have a daughter around that age. You’re blasting for thinking it’s sick? Do you not see the hypocrisy of preaching about having an open mind, while at the same time belittling others feelings?

You can have your own opinion. I have an opinion too, which happens in this case to be that your opinion is reactionary, misinformed, and ultimately pro-censorship. Your opinion seems to entail the idea that certain ideas are so awful that we should keep people from expressing them, and I find such an opinion reprehensible. I’d prefer that people, yourself included, based their opinions on the basic facts of the real world. That’s my opinion.

And i’m so sick of people saying “well, nobody complains about [insert tv show or other media here] therefore it’s OKAY”

Gosh, I don’t see where I said that. I suppose I did say “well, nobody complains about these same themes popping up in literature, so why the reaction now,” but that’s not quite the same thing. What age is appropriate to be mentioned in the same sentence as “sex”?

I think it’s funny that the people defending this book do it by attacking those that find it sick, while the people who find it sick state their opinion without attacking those that defend it.

I think it’s funny that you can read this thread and come up with that opinion.

I think it’s scary that some people think fictional people can be “exploited,” and that there are some ideas which we just shouldn’t express. I think it’s ridiculous that people would look at a work of fiction and somehow think that by the very act of existing, it’s somehow dangerous. I think it’s insane that people somehow think that printing books with these themes will somehow contribute to the very real problem of pedophilia. Is that true of all bad acts? The more they appear in the media, the more they appear in real life? Somehow, I doubt that, and I seriously doubt that the evidence would support such a patently absurd claim.

Why, I wouldn’t be suprised if more than one person is viewing this thread right now and thinking “Geez, Doctor E, Matt M, Tom Floss, Etherdweller, Kitty TC, etc are just a bunch of closet pedophiles”

Gee, didn’t you just say that the people attacking this book aren’t attacking the defenders? I think you did.

So, supporting free speech makes me a pedophile, eh? Drawing a distinction between “fictional characters doing fictional things” and “real people doing real things” makes me a pedophile? Saying “just because you read about something doesn’t mean you’re going to go out and do it” makes me a pedophile? I read (and support the right to write and read) Dexter and the Hannibal Lecter books, does that make me a closet serial killer? I read Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret for an English class a few years back, does that make me a pubescent girl? I read the Harry Potter books, does that make me a wizard? Who was it who lacked reasoning skills?

Notice I didn’t say that’s MY opinion, but the way some people in this thread are acting towards others, in a venemous way, lends the impression.

“Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding,” Tony. “I’m not calling you pedophiles, I’m just saying that someone might get that impression.”

Here’s a reality check: there’s a difference between “fiction” and “reality.” Furthermore, there’s a difference between “reading about things in fiction” and “committing things in reality.” And as far as I’m aware, there’s no causal link between the two. The vast majority of people who read crime drama don’t go out and commit (or solve) murders. The vast majority of people who read superhero comics don’t put on tights and masks and fight crime. And the vast majority of people who would read things like Nymphet (or any of the other equally disturbing books that people have brought up in this thread, which haven’t raised the same ire) aren’t going to go out and solicit sex from eight-year-old girls.

And the ones who do would have done it anyway. Dylan Kleibold and Eric Harris would have rampaged through Columbine whether they played Doom or went bowling or listened to the Carpenters.

Maybe, just maybe, the people who defend others’ rights to say and print whatever the hell they want, are more concerned with actually stopping problems like pedophilia than trying to erase the ideas from the media and pretend that they don’t exist. Maybe, just maybe, folks on this side think that it’s a waste of time and resources to attack ideas instead of criminals. Maybe, just maybe, we think that you don’t have to compromise free expression in order to crack down on perverts.

Damn, i’m starting to sound like a conservative right winger, despite my liberal background. But that’s okay. The day I start thinking 8 year old girls lusting and trying to be with older men in a sexual way is enertaining is the day I need to be dragged out into public and shot dead.

Wow, veiled threats of violence. You do sound like a right-winger. Maybe if you’d start thinking with your brain instead of your emotions, you’d have an easier time with that.

Of course, that isn’t MY opinion, it’s just something that someone casually reading this thread might…no, wait, it is my opinion. Free speech doesn’t stop once the speech becomes offensive, disgusting, and awful. No one needs to fight to preserve the speech that everyone likes. It’s expression that incites that anger, that emotional response, that needs to be vehemently defended. Because once we open the door to allow people to censor one thing that offends them, to say that one set of ideas is off-limits for discussion, we may as well have sold off our rights entirely.

It’s not “free speech as long as we like what you have to say.” That’s not a right, that’s thought-police.

realized just how far our society has fallen):

Every time I see people suggesting that there are some things which deserve to be censored, that there is some speech which shouldn’t be free, that we ought to put limits on unalienable rights, I realize the same thing. Try reading some Thomas Jefferson, some Thomas Paine, some James Madison. Try seeing why it’s so important, so vital, to protect all speech, and not just the speech that makes us feel good.

I don’t find it funny on Family Guy when Stewie has his sexual moments, I don’t find it funny in any media. There is a line that has to be drawn. There is no “grey area” in this, in my opinion. I see everybody trying like hell to justify this, and it makes me want to..well, I’ll keep what I want to do to you to myself, lest I come off as an ultra violent nutjob.

And that’s exactly it. The only “black and white” here is “Free speech vs. Censorship.” And once you go black, you never go back.

See, I do find it funny when Stewie throws sexy parties, shows up at gay bars, and talks about which of his classmates he’d “do.” I find it funny because I can recognize that it’s fiction. Jesus Haploid Christ, it’s a cartoon character voiced by an adult man speaking lines written by other adults on a show for adults. Where is a child harmed? Has anyone, anywhere watched an episode of Family Guy and been justified in saying “gee, now I can go rape little children”? Instead of railing against fiction, maybe you should recognize that there are real problems in the world. By promoting censorship, you’re only adding to those problems, and you’re doing absolutely nothing to curtail pedophilia.

But just because they feel that way, doesn’t mean the practice of sex should be encouraged, entertained, or socially accepted. It’s a deviant way of thinking, and I think it crosses political and religious lines, especially when you’re a family with values.

Thank you, moral policeman. I needed you to set me straight. Why, from now on, I’ll defer to you on precisely what is and is not deviant.

Honestly, who the hell are you to decide what is “deviant”? Where’s your psychology degree? What research have you done to conclude “children who are curious about sex shouldn’t be encouraged because they’re deviants”? And what does this have to do with the manga in question? Does the book condone the girl’s actions? Does it encourage eight-year-olds to engage in sexual fantasies? Does Silence of the Lambs condone killing and eating people?

Your values are not everyone’s values, as ought to have clearly been demonstrated here. Me, I value the right to say, write, and read whatever the hell I want. If I want to write a story where a 12-year-old cannibal ninja has sex with a donkey, that’s my right, and it harms no one. If I think that my kids should be brought up in a home that treats sex as a fact of life instead of something taboo and dirty never to be mentioned except in whispers, if I think that it’s normal for adolescents to be curious about sex, and that “I’ll tell you when you’re older” isn’t a valid answer, that’s my right, and I daresay my kids would end up better informed and better adjusted because of it. It’s when you start throwing around value judgments like “deviant” over things like “playing doctor” that you start screwing people up.

I don’t need psychobabble. This isn’t a grey area. It’s wrong, plain and simply.

What’s wrong? You’re not being real clear on that matter. Is it wrong for people to have sexual feelings at a young age? If so, who are you to decide it, and what will you do about it? Or is it wrong to talk about this subject? And if that’s the case, then I’ll say that you’re wrong, and anyone who says “it’s wrong to talk about X,” regardless of what X is, is wrong. That’s my black-and-white.

I hope those who feel differently are in the minority, because when you DON’T set standards, when you DON’T set limits, or draw a line in the sand, when ANYTHING goes, then you can justify ANYTHING.

And just what exactly do you think we’re doing? I’m drawing a line in the sand and saying “stop it right there, censorship is wrong, in all cases. Period.” I’m also saying “minors can’t and shouldn’t legally be able to consent to sex, and people having sex without consent are in the wrong, period,” but that’s neither here nor there, because there are no minors involved in this situation.

Furthermore, I’m sure we all have our own values and our own morals. I’m sure we all have some of those morals in common, and I’d be willing to bet that everyone here thinks “adults having sex with children is wrong.” But you are not the sole arbiter of moral codes, sir. Morals are socially-defined, and while we all agree on certain things, I’m sure most of us would agree that you are in no position to determine the morals and values for everyone else. Especially with your cavalier attitude toward the rights to free speech and freedom of thought.

I can sleep easier at night knowing I don’t condone stories about 8 year olds trying to have sex.

And I can sleep easier at night knowing that I will vehemently defend all speech, whether or not I find it disgusting. I can sleep easier knowing that self-aggrandized moralistic thought police like yourself aren’t kings of the world, and are utterly impotent to tell me what I do and do not have the right to think and say. And I sleep just fine knowing that my opinion is codified in indelible, unalienable ink in the highest law in this land, in my favorite black-and-white (or black-and-parchment, as the case may be), the United States Constitution.