I love America.

i would like to sue sony and marvel for making such a crappy movie

He doesn’t have a chance. Remember when Joe Simon sued Marvel for ownership of Captain America and lost? He lost because Captain America was a work made for hire. The same is true of Ghost Rider. Because the character is a work made for hire, Marvel will own the copyright for many years to come.

If he has had the rights to GR since 2001, why wait until AFTER the movie made millions to sue? He could have sued right away. He could have sued sometime inbetween then and now. He could have sued when the movie was announced. He could have sued before the movie was released. Obviously, he’s after some quick cash. I don’t blame him, if given the opportunity, I might do the same thing, but the fact that this guy is making an obvious money grab makes me want to root for the big corporation over the “little guy.”

My fear about this is the sue happy “creators” will scare the movie guys away from comic book movie possibilities. I am all for creators getting their fair share but its funny that he never thought about this in the almost 40 years since its creation or even in the 6 years since the rights supposedly went back to him.

I’m going out today to sue McDonalds for having hot coffee in their hot coffee… what its been done already…damn

in re: to comment #7… id hardly call it get rich quick. he waited. he plotted. he could have done it years ago and didnt because he waited for the property to have the biggest potential.

still, its HORRIBLE, its just not quick.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
Now I will be sued, too.

I’m going to have to side with the big bad company on this one. He waited until the movie made a ton of cash. He didn’t have a problem with the ghost rider books coming out before, but now he feels his copyright has been infringed upon. Sounds shady to me. Will Mike Ploog and Roy Thomas be suing as well? He even prefaced this a few years ago by saying that if the movie were ever mad and makes a lot of money that he would sue. Lame.

I really hope this doesn’t scare Nick Cage away from doing a sequel.. sigh..

Considering the mega salary of Nicolas Cage and the tons of money, movie bugdet like, that was invested in the worldwide massive publicity campaign alone, this movie still has not turn up a cent of profit yet; last hope for any money is with the video release

And once anybody wins the lawsuit, then the owners of the original Ghost Rider, the 1940′s western character will counter sue them all for stealing their title name, which never belonged to Marvel to begin with. And if that is not enough the creator of Marvel’s golden age Blazing Skull will want his cut too; welcome to the world of knocking of other people’s work

At last somenone will get something from this horrible movie…Go Gary Go…

As an entertainment/intellectual copyright attorney, you’d want to wait until the work that you claim was infringed upon was actually stolen and successful (i.e. ticket sales, etc). You can’t sue for infringement before it’s been infringed upon (duh).
As for why he didn’t sue Marvel earlier, who knows? I’d bet that he had an agreement with Marvel, similar to other comics creators in the past, whereby they can keep publishing comics with the characters, but if other mediums become involved, then they have to receive compensation (similar, I believe, to why Black Lightning and Blue Beetle were never in Justice League Unlimited).
Of course, I don’t have all the facts, so I could be totally mistaken – it’s just that I’ve seen other agreements similar to the one I’ve suggested. If I’m right, then it’s not a money grab, as was suggested, but a legitimate violation of contract terms, which means that one does not have to “root for the big company” or “against the little guy.”
I draft these contracts all the time, and, most of the time, no one ever checks them before doing something like this. It’s not only common, it’s pretty likely that he’s owed what he’s owed. And that’s where the courts/lawyers come in. They’ll probably reach a nice settlement and life will go on.
As for the poster who suggested that the studios won’t want to make comics films if people keep suing for their rights, that’s unlikely for two reasons;
1. Friedrich’s agreement was with Marvel, not Sony, so, in all likelihood, there’s a contract between Marvel and Sony that says something like, “if there’s a lawsuit over these rights, and we lose, then you will indemnify us (pay back) for any/all losses incurred.” As a plaintiff (person suing), you don’t know who know’s what, so you sue everyone possible. Just because you’re being sued doesn’t mean you’ll automatically lose. It’s a GREAT defense to copyright infringement that Sony didn’t know anything about Friedrich’s rights, and then, even if they have to pay (or settle), Marvel will foot the bill.
and
2. Studios steal ALL the time from creators in ANY medium, ask screenwriters – it happens all the time. Studios don’t care, they do it, they get caught, sometimes they settle, sometimes they defend in court, it doesn’t matter to them. They’re still making money, so believe me, this isn’t going to create a chilling effect on any comic book movies.

One big problem will be Friedrich’s Comic Book Artist interview from issue #13; in it, he’s pretty honest about his struggles with alcoholism while he was working for Marvel (Before he died, Bill Everett was trying to get Friedrich into a program). A good lawyer could use that admission to destroy Friedrich’s claims in court.

With regard to Comment #6: “I’m going out today to sue McDonalds for having hot coffee in their hot coffee… what its been done already…damn”

I know this derails the discussion a bit, but whenever someone brings up the McDonalds-hot-coffee lawsuit as an example of litigiousness run amok, I gotta jump in to point out a few things:

(1) That McDonalds’ coffee wasn’t just hot, it was scalding. It was thrity to forty degrees hotter than most restaraunts serve hot coffee. It was hot enough to cause third degree burns. When you distill the case down to “they kept their hot coffee hot,” it of course sounds absurd, but the reality is that there was merit to the case.

(2) When people marvel at the amount of money awarded the plantiff, they’re usually talking about the punitive damages which was something like over $2 million. (That figure was apparently calculated at what one or two days worth of McDonalds’ coffee sales were worth.) What folks don’t as often realize is that the punitive damages were later drastically reduced, so this isn’t really a case of runaway settlements or huge monetary awards.

As fashionable–and worthwhile–as it is to decry the legal system, when the McDonald’s hot coffee lawsuit is brought up, it’s often done so with a lot of misinformation, which is unfortunate.

For those who claim the movie has not made a profit, the projected budget was $110million, and the world wide grosses are currently about $215million. Even if they spent $35million on publicity, they’ve still made $70million.

Personally, I would have sued after the movie was made, but before it was released, so I could claim it was about getting credit. Waiting until the crappy, crappy movie is a world-wide hit just reeks of greed (but not as much as the movie reeked).

It’s often not worth it to sue until a lot of money has been made. How else does one get a lawyer?

Yourbudrob – that would be trademark, not copyright.

More power to him. Creators should have profit participation. If this is how he can get it, I wish him a huge amount of success.

“For those who claim the movie has not made a profit, the projected budget was $110million, and the world wide grosses are currently about $215million. Even if they spent $35million on publicity, they’ve still made $70million.

Personally, I would have sued after the movie was made, but before it was released, so I could claim it was about getting credit. Waiting until the crappy, crappy movie is a world-wide hit just reeks of greed (but not as much as the movie reeked).”

Yep.

Lawyers are expensive. He most likely waited until there was something to actually litigate against so then the pot was big enough he could get a lawyer on contingency – which is where you pay 20-30% of settlement to them and sometimes are out of pocket for their hard costs. Unfortunately since the legal system is so expensive – things like this happen where is makes Gary look like an opportunist. Instead I am sure that he could not find a lawyer to press his case until the movie came out.

Look, the simple fact is that no matter how much pricnciple may be involved, lawsuits are almost always about money and there’s nothing wrong, unethical, or immoral about it. It’s a simple understood fact of the system.

And as matter of law, Friedrich’s history of alcoholism is irrevelant. But a good lawyer (for Marvel/Sony) would most certainly use that as a way to raise doubt regarding the accuracy of Friedrich’s recollection of how Ghost Rider was created and his role in the process.

Re: #25. Thanks, Justin, for shining some light onto a topic that usually generates only heat.

Re: #29. And thanks to you, Tommy, for bring some truth into the McDonalds sidebar. (And re #34, Rolando, I think Tommy was referencing #9 by James Rogers, who did mention the McDonald’s coffee case.)

All that said, I don’t see how suing “for the money” invalidates his claim in any way. People are making money from Ghost Rider; if he deserves some, he should get some.

Hand213- he’s disputing Thomas’ and Ploog’s versions of events, which will call his credibility into question if by his own admission he had a drinking problem at the time. That might hurt his claim to creating the character that Marvel’s lawyers can twist around.

You’re right that it doesn’t have to do with specific copyright law, but I think it’ll be a factor.

With regard to this: “For those who claim the movie has not made a profit, the projected budget was $110million, and the world wide grosses are currently about $215million. Even if they spent $35million on publicity, they’ve still made $70million.”

That math would assume that the individual theatres showing the thing don’t make anything for having shown the movie. I don’t know how ticket revenues are split nowadays, but it seems pretty clear that if the film generated $215 million in gross ticket sales, not all of it goes to the movie studio. The theatre’s gotta make something, right?

As to the McDonald’s lawsuit, what temperature was the coffee? Starbucks serves coffee at 180 degrees. 30 or 40 degrees above that would put it at a rolling boil. How could McDonald’s even keep a cup at that temperature?

RE: The theatre’s gotta make something. . .

The split of the ticket money weighs heavily in favor of the studios during a movie’s first few weeks in release. I’ve heard of 80/20 ratios for the studio before. The longer the film is in release the higher the percentage goes to the theatre. Generally, the vast majority of a movie theatre’s money comes from snack bar items. That’s why they charge you $6 for 20 cents worth of popcorn and $4 for 15 cents worth of soda.

Ron (#40):

McDonalds was brewing it’s coffee between 185-195 degrees. Like most restaurants that serve coffee, that is the “optimal temperature” for getting flavor out of the grounds. It served (and still serves) coffee at about 180 degrees. McDonald’s representatives in trial admitted that serving coffee at 180 degrees would make it impossible to drink right away (it would scald your mouth or tongue), and thus could be dangerous. In addition, the cups back then had flimsy lids. Today, McDonalds, and most restaurants still serve coffee at that temperature (to ensure coffee maintains its flavor), but the cups and signs will all say “DANGEROUS!” or “COFFEE IS HOT,” or “WAIT TO DRINK.” Everyone agreed the coffee was hot (and needed to be hot to maintain its flavor), the problem was McDonalds didn’t have a warning, and the cups back then were not very secure. Today, we have plenty of warning signs, and cups are much more secure, thus reducing liability.

1. Registration Number: RE-929-199
Title: Ghost rider.
Series: Marvel spotlight ; vol. 1, no. 5
Claimant: acGary E. Friedrich (A)
Effective Registration Date: 26Feb07
Original Registration Date: *PUB 30Apr72;
Original Registration Number: Not reg.; addedendum submitted under PL 102-307.
Original Class: X
Miscellaneous: C.O. corres.

This may be the single most obvious case of inadequate thought and execution by a comic book and related company in history. The Copyright was lost and reverted to Friedrich when Marvel failed to register it.

How on earth can a company spend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars on creating a movie and not take the 5 minutes to determine if in fact they hold the copyright entitling them to do so legally? I am stunned, amazed and disappointed in this development. What I am not is shocked. Sloppy management has plagued this company pre and post bankruptcy and most of all, hubris has pervaded every single thing they do, from blockbuster movies all the way down to comics. This lawsuit brings to light that Marvel, from top to bottom, is mismanaged and is totally immersed in a culture of giant egos who seemingly have no desire to do things right. When the #1 company in an industry feels this way, and it still doesn’t lose market share, the industry as a whole is in trouble.

I know this is like shouting at a brick wall but if one person reads it and “gets it”, then we will be 1 person closer to pressing Marvel into taking a much healthier and productive path for the future. It is a shame that no-one at Marvel seems to feel the need to do this on their own. They could be a healthy force for the entire industry, and make more money by taking that mantle, but instead they decide to take shortcuts for top to bottom, and maintain the attitude that they are entitled to do so because they are Marvel and everyone else isn’t. What a shame.

And that’s all I have to say about that

i hope he wins.i hate that these comic companies make billions of dollars on characters that they ripped off.i dont care about work for hire its not right.they were doing comics it shouldent count other mediums like movies….it makes me sad that jack kirby couldent walk into a toys r us without getting sick over seeing fantastic four toys and that seigal and schuster dies poor.

Forget Ghost Rider – sue all writers and “Ghost Writers” of the movie.

Again, I don’t know what deal Friedrich had w/ Marvel, but it’s very likely that Friedrich granted Marvel all rights to use the copyright as long as it’s for books/comics/magazines/etc. The issue probably arises that the contracts back in the day were written quickly and for a small sphere – i.e. comic books. It’s likely that no one foresaw the desire to make a movie about a flaming skeleton on a motorcycle (let alone foresaw the CGI that would enable that image in a live-action movie). In movie contracts now they add in a provision regarding the rights to the film in all mediums (film, DVD, VHS, etc) currently existing (at the time of contract) and “all other’s hereby created.” It used to be that movie/TV contracts would ONLY cover movie or TV, but then, as VHS became popular, this changed everything, a lot of people got shortchanged (i.e. robbed – for example, if a movie were shown on TV, then under the contract, the creators would get money, but if it were sold on DVD, then nothing). This is, of course, an over-simplification – some studios paid money were money was morally due anyway, without threat of lawsuit. And some people had to sue for compensation, and of those, some won, some lost, for myriad reasons.

So again, it wouldn’t be surprising that there’s money owed. And, if in the written contract, it will be paid. If there’s only a verbal contract, well, harder to say. With comic books, there used to be a LOT of verbal contracts, BUT that was the standard of business – which many courts (such as NY – where I practice) will hold to be firm.

To address the “alcoholism” defense. This defense is a LOSER. I can’t care who the attorney is, any judge is going to pretty much dismiss this, unless they can PROVE that he was drunk for every Ghost Rider discussion… good luck.

RE: McDonald’s – It’s not just the temp, they lost the big money in punitive damages BECAUSE the jury felt that McDonald’s was treating the plaintiff like crap. Keep this in mind, the plaintiff have 2nd degree burns (fairly serious) and all she wanted was McDonald’s to cover the medical bills. That’s how she approached them. In court, McDonald’s did everything they could to make her look crazy, greedy, stupid, and really dragged her through the mud for a case even they now admit they were in the wrong. The jury turned on McDonald’s, and not b/c of her attorney, but because of their own attorney’s. McDonalds deserved to pay for bad behavior (and they used a lot of nasty, but boring filing tricks/delays etc – even the judge came down on them).

To Bill Cunningham – Copyright exists when something is fixed (i.e. spoken, drawn, written, filmed, etc.), you need not have the paperwork filed to have legal ownership of it. HOWEVER, you DO need to file (or re-file if it’s lapsed but was renewable – there IS a grace period) a copyright in order to bring a suit. If he had known that Marvel was making a Ghost Rider movie in violation of his copyright, he could have motioned for an injunction to prevent the filming of the movie until the parties had come to an agreement or the case was decided in court (in Marvel’s favor). In that case, Sony WOULD be bound to Marvel’s contract w/ them (since Marvel is bound to their contract with Friedrich). In order to win an injunction like that, the plaintiff would have to show that they’d be harmed to an extent that the defense couldn’t make right. In the present case, I don’t think he would have won an injunction, because this isn’t an issue of say, preventing the tearing down of a house, this is more of a financial contract dispute. Therefore, he’d likely not stop the production/release of the film and just receive monetary damages. On the flip side, he wouldn’t be beholden to Marvel’s terms either. Hence the lawsuit – the court would decide (more likely an arbiter), and then all parties would agree, and those would be his repayment terms.

It’ll end up in a settlement, I’m sure. Friedrich hasn’t done anything significant in the industry in the last 20 + years, probably even closer to 30. It does sound like he’s got a credible case, and if he can get some money, then all the better for him. Lord knows most creators deserve at least a little something pre-direct market.

I’m going to sue Marvel and Sony for distracting me throughout the film with Eva Mendes’ boobs. uh…

Those boobs were distracting weren’t they?
HAHAHA

Every year Marvel gets sued or sues someone else.

Last time it was City of Heroes.

First of all $110 million is much more than I thought it was, and combining that with massive scale hammering publicity, super bowl and all, insistence even 2 weeks before the movie release, I would think very naive to believe the publicity budget was only $35 million, when it felt more like a 75 million in North America alone and possibly $200+ million worldwide; trust me, not a cent of profit has been made yet, while Frank Miller’s 300 film is really showing how to rake it at the box-office. In the end for Marvel to put forward for movie treatment instead of great characters like Captain America, their Ghost Rider, a double knock off of Blazing Skull and of the 1950 Magazine Enterprises western character, after they finish going through the complication of this settlement and possibly following ones for what ever reason, maybe Sony should sue Marvel next over making them waste their time and money over a property they knocked off and never really had any rights to begin with, after all the dust settles down… I doubt their will be any money left, in fact they might even be a little bit in the hole over bad decision to push lesser questionable characters for movies over obvious greater ones, mostly Avengers related which Marvel has been staling on for years

OMG! 110 million dollar

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