The whole thing started when Greg Burgas posted an amusing defense of comics from the 1970s. That led Dick Hyacinth to ponder whether said decade was really that significant:
So basically: there were many good comics published in the 70s, especially if you’re into idiosyncratic superhero comics, Underground Comix, or horror. But I’m skeptical that the 70s will ever be considered a monumental epoch in the history of comics. Some important wheels were set in motion, but the industry didn’t undergo any of the extensive changes (on either the art or business front) seen in other decades. So maybe it’s not such a great crime that the 70s dwell in the shadow of the two decades bookending it, an island of humility between two oceans of conceit (I think that’s how that saying goes).
Such musings led Heidi to turn red with rage (OK, not really):
Come on now! Is Dick trying to be silly? As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, the current comics biz is mostly run by post-boomers who all came of age reading 70s comics, and that era of “relevance” is what really kicked off the Grim’n’Gritty/Pow! Sock! Comics aren’t for kids any more era. Marvel in particular, had a great run that is still being strip-mined to death. Far from being inconsequential, it was the underground comics/”relevant comics/birth of self-publishing that planted the seeds of everything that came after.
Hyacinth musters an “eh” to Heidi and other’s responses, leaving Dirk to shoulder the burden:
Actually reading [70s superhero comics] disabused me of any notion that these were good comics. Jim Starlin’s stuff approached “vaguely interesting,” once or twice, but beyond that? Crap. Killraven? Crap. Marvel’s horror line? Crap. The early Conan and Red SonjaThor comics. (“Zounds!”) Even those old X-Men comics quickly lost their luster once I could no longer read them with a nine-year-old’s eyes. Hell, the first half of Frank Miller’s run on Daredevil was nowhere near as cool as I remembered it.
He then goes on to sing the praises of Howard the Duck as the lone voice of quality in the wilderness. Then Tom decided to throw his hat into the ring:
I don’t think much of the cream of the crop of 1970s superhero comic books in terms of their being entertaining, well-crafted and meaningfully humane narratives. At best they’re Starsky and Hutch, not Mean Streets. An off-episode of Starsky and Hutch. An off-episode of Starsky and Hutch with the Antonio Fargas scenes spliced out. Then again, I don’t really find many of the 1980s and 1990s or today’s heroic adventure comics significantly more effective on that front, beyond a rise in some elements of surface sophistication.
Clearly we cannot let this debate die. Add fuel to the fire my friends!
Update: The TCJ Message Board is taking up the debate too.
* Note: I’ve never actually read a Killkraven comic.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:07 am
The 70’s are MONUMENTAL as far as I’m concerned. But that’s because for me (a child of the 80’s and 90’s) the 70’s mean Jack Kirby’s work at DC. Which means OMAC, Kamandi, Jimmy Olsen, and of course the Fourth World epic that gave us Mister Miracle, Darkseid, and all the other New Gods.
I’d say that counts for something.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 am
Though Killraven never interested me (I was probably too young to “get it” at the time), what I do admire about it, and by extension the rest of the 70’s era books, was the spirt of experimentation that was beginning to take root with the new generation of creators coming up. From Starlin’s Captain Marvel and Warlock to Dave Sim’s Cerebus…not to mention Englehart and Brunner’s Doctor Strange, you could really see the beginnings of comics straining to become something else. Of course, there was plenty of good, old fashioned superheroing going on…but even that started growing up a bit, as more emotionally complex themes and morally grey characters were introduced.
I don’t think for a minute any of us cheerleaders for 70’s comics are claiming they’re the Best Thing Ever, but at the same time we’re proud of the advancements made in the form, advancements that opened the door for all of the critically-acclaimed comic book darlings of today’s self-appointed Cutting Edge Cool Cats.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:02 am
While the 80’s are often seen as the period of ‘great change’ in the comic book industry, the 70’s are really where it all began. Comic book specialty stores, conventions, the rise of fandom; the shift from ‘pros’ to fans taking over the industry in full force; creators like Byrne, Miller, Claremont, Windsor-Smith, Simonson, Kaluta, etc., starting out; DC Comics adopting the soap opera, so-called ‘realistic’ method of story telling that’s permeated superhero comics; the beginning of modern American alternative/independent comics with work from R. Crumb and Harvey Pekar (and yes, Crumb was working on the so-called underground ‘comix’ in the 60’s, but they didn’t really come to fruition until the 70’s). As for the quality of 70’s superhero comics - that’s purely subjective and depending on taste. Some are good, some are crap, some are great. But I find it particularly amusing when some say that 70’s superhero comics were terrible then admit that they don’t really like any superhero comics at all, which kind of invalidates their point.
In any case, just because it didn’t seem like a revolution, the 70’s most definitely were a decade of evolution.
March 22nd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I wholeheartedly disagree that the 70’s were not as relevant as other decades.
As others have mentioned, the 70’s were the birth of Frank Miller, John Byrne, George Perez, Jim Starlin, Barry Windsor Smith, Mike Kaluta, Walt Simonson, Dave Cockrum, Michael Golden,Mike Grell,Dave Sim and so many others. It was a rich and often reprinted era of innovative work.
I dare say that many of today’s comics don’t compare to Byrne’s X-Men, Miller’s Daredevil or Michael Golden’s Micronauts or Starlin’s Warlock.
Remove the Watchmen and Dark Knight from the 80’s and that era is a mere example of corporate marketing and promotional excess. See Secret Wars 1 and 2, Crisis on Infinite Earth’s , Legends, Millenium, Invasion, Atlantis Attacks, Acts of Vengeance, Fall of the Mutants, Mutant Massacre, Inferno, etc.
March 22nd, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I thought Tom Spurgeon settled this pretty well yesterday:
http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/how_and_why_the_70s_mattered_when_of_course_they_didnt_really_matter/
“…obviously the decade of the 1970s was important to modern superhero comics; that’s where they started. Superhero comics continue to utilize the 1970s model: writers and artists, most with serious intentions, trying to rewrite or extend someone else’s creations primarily through the rules of soap opera, using as a general springboard the tropes of heroic fantasy leavened by moments of reality and relevance. Maybe five percent of the superhero comic books I’ve encountered in the last 10 years I can read and not see Steve Englehart, Chris Claremont and/or Don McGregor staring back at me. Neal Adams’ inchoate corrective to Jack Kirby’s approach to art still seems to me the dominant approach visually, too. Throw in the rise of the fan/pro (twin poles: Paul Levitz, Gary Groth) and the development of the comic book direct market and you could argue it’s been all-’70s all the time ever since.”