Millarworld considers where DC went wrong:
“Like a lot of folks, I bought all of the hype leading up to Crisis….and I loved it. Sure, the (copious) tie-ins didn’t quite pay off…but hey, it was EPIC! Sadly, the pay off / follow up has been lackluster to say the least…. How so? Lets look… A mistake was made in taking Justino from the Shadowpact mini-series and putting him on The Creeper. Why? Because Shadowpact hasn’t had a penciler for more than three consecutive issues and Justino did a fantastic job on the mini-series! And what happened to Willingham being the writer AND artist? Look at these upcoming credits – Issue 6 – Cory Walker, Issue 7 – Cory Walker, Issue 8 – Shawn McManus, Issue 9 – Tom Denerick Great talent, sure, but how about some stability? The same goes for Blue Beetle. I love Cully’s work, but it seems like every other issue was by someone else. Issue 8 – Cully, Issue 9 – Rouleau, Issue 10 – Cully, Issue 11 – Rafael Albuquerque, Issue 12 – Nicola Scott and Doug Hazlewood. You see what I’m saying?? Byrne jumping ship on The Atom after four issues didn’t help things…and then new “regular artist” Eddy Barrows has a two issue Mike Norton fill-in barely 2 issues into his run! …Hawkgirl had some fun issues with Simonson and Chaykin but that team only lasted 6 issues before the book joined the patented DC artistic shuffle! Although Renato Arlem is scheduled for a whopping 3 issues thus far! Can you say “era”?! As we all know know, the much lauded Morrison / Kubert Batman run has had 4 issues before a four issue fill-in, followed by the return of Morrison and a fill-in artist. Dini’s Detective has been nice, but we’ve had a slew of artists and fill-in issue there, too! Still, at least Dini’s book has been one shot tales…so the multiple artist thing isn’t that bad… It’s common knowledge that the Nightwing and Flash relaunches were botched. Nightwing supposedly got caught up in last minute revisions to Crisis…’Was Dick supposed to die or not?’. Flash ditched everything that made the book work and tied the package up with weak art. Not to mention (wait for it) 3 artists in 6 issues. Green Lantern and Wonder Woman have both been bi-monthly…one offically and one unoffically. Why DC felt the need to rush the Heinbergs book out the door I don’t know. He and the Dodsons make a great team…but it just isn’t ‘monthly’ material. Lantern’s 3 artists (albeit all stellar) in 13 late issues was something of a buzzkill.”
“I think OYL has had some good and some bad like any big launch, but one thing confuses me. Both Batman books have had fillin teams within four issues. Considering how early on this happened, couldn’t they have come first?”
“Another one that has been hurt by the delays has been Aquaman, I was really excited about this one. Reading the latest issue yesterday wasn’t a lot of fun considering I forgot most of what happened the previous issue. The whole OYL thing seems like a lot of broken promises to me, not everything has been terrible, but the multiple artists and delays has really hurt it overall.”
“I don’t feel like typing a bunch stuff about what DC did to screw-up the OYL thing so i’ll just say I’m losing interest in 52 fast. Oh and Justice sucks. Haven’t fell asleep reading a comic in a long time.”
“I buy less Dc now that I did pre and during crisis [...]yes there are some shining lights – Meltzer’s JLA, Heinberg and Dodson’s WonderWoman stand out for me – but the story behind Crisis just became so huge, so complicated and, frankly, so un-readable during the IC series itself that I rapidly lost interest in anything they had been building up. The execution was so poor that I just felt it would be a waste of time and moeny continuing to commit to what dc were trying to achieve.”
November 17th, 2006 at 10:45 am
DC screwed up OYL? I’ve been enjoying quite a few of their titles, and there’s usually one or two books each week that I’m really excited to get.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Talking about falling asleep during comics, did anyone else catch Civil War #5?
What exactly happened in that issue? Oh that’s right, pretty much nothing. It’s extremely ironic Millar dissing Infinite Crisis and OYL when his own mega-event has to be one of the biggest letdowns ever.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:41 am
I’m amazed people are talking like having Mike Norton draw your book is a bad thing.
November 17th, 2006 at 11:52 am
I don’t frequent Millar’s board, but whenever it’s linked from the Newsarama blog its all very critical of something or someone.
Doesn’t anyone “like” things anymore?
November 17th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
I hate to agree with that Blog, but I do. I love DC Comics, but the past year has been pretty bad. Too many delays, not enough focus. If not for the (previous) Flash series I would have dumped comics completely. The latest relaunch has me seriously considering it again. Why should I put up with so many delays when I can just “Wait for the trade”?
November 17th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
I’ve always been a Marvel guy, but thanks to the negative feels I have developed in the wake of Civil War, I’ve been totally won over by DC. Superman, Action, Detective, 52, Fables, Y-the Last Man, Justice League of America, are all DC books I’m picking up monthly. Daredevil is one of the few Marvels books Im still enjoying… and surprise, surprise, its Civil War free.
November 17th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
Although I think Millar shouldn’t be the one to complain about lateness and fill-in issues (for obvious reasons), he’s still kinda right.
The fill-in arc for Morrison’s Batman is forgivable, I think, because it’s occurring between arcs. I’m sure we would love to see teams like Morrison/Kubert doing 50 issues straight and on time, but that’s just not realistic anymore. Alternating creator teams between storyarcs seems like the best alternative, given the circumstances. Just need to make sure the storyarcs are short enough, and try to avoid switching artists mid-issue or mid-arc.
Storywise, DC has been great. Plenty of great titles to choose from. All the problems seem to be stemming from the complications inherent producing comics in a monthly format. Which, by the way, Marvel is no stranger to. How late was the most recent issue of Civil War, Mr. Millar? Precisely because Marvel *didn’t* use a fill-in artist (and didn’t give you enough lead time). Sh!t happens in this industry, and Millar should know it more than anyone right now. So why’s he stirring up the hate on DC?
Honestly, I think the best solution for ongoing books is to keep storyarcs short and use rotating creators. It’s not our preference as readers, but I’m pretty sure books would solve a lot of the lateness problems.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
There’s no Millar post in that thread! It’s just his board goers talking.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
First off, the comments in this post aren’t from Millar himself, just from posters at Millar’s board. He hasn’t made a single post in that specific thread, so please check the link before saying something about Millar himself.
Second, in response to post #4, there are plenty of positive posts on Millar’s board. I would guess there are as many positive posts as there are negative throughout the whole board, but they’re never mentioned here. I meanhow would people be spurred on to bash Millar if positive comments from his board were showcased?
November 17th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
The single biggest problem is that DC got a case of the Quesada’s with their shipping.
DC also reacted quickly to books (Nightwing, Flash) that were received negatively with creative changes.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Millar points out some legitimate problems, though I think he makes ‘em out to be larger than they are. Is it any wonder why his main complaint is artist consistency…after that is what held up much of Marvel’s biggest titles because of Civil War.
November 17th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Oops…I see Millar didn’t level those complaints. Then it was those who wish to suckle at his teet thinking they could couch their arguments in a way that doesn’t accidentally criticize anything he’s done.
November 17th, 2006 at 6:12 pm
“I meanhow would people be spurred on to bash Millar if positive comments from his board were showcased? ”
We need to read his forum to do that? I thought you just needed to flip thru “Civil War”?
November 17th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
How about for something different–a for real Millar quote from a different Millarworld thread?
In response to a poster who says,
“I agree with you about the delusional part, esp. vis a vis Millar’s comments about the “millions of dollars” being spent, but when I saw the pages I thought they looked superb and was really looking forward to the book. What’s marvel gonna do with the pages that have already been produced????”
Millar replies:
“Posts like this piss me off no end. I said it woule “cost Marvel a fortune” and be the most expensive art comics had ever produced. Check my quotes as opposed to blogs for the info. The pages required artists, photogs, computer manip, some sets to be built, costumes to be made and actors to be hired. That was expensive. Marvel spent some money on this so what’s delusional? *I* was into it as were others in this thread and even yourself. So what are you talking about?”
November 18th, 2006 at 2:48 am
See, here’s my problem with this. Why are you going to a message board for a MARVEL EXCLUSIVE writer to get opinions on DC Comics? As someone who occasional checks out the board of a DC exclusive writer (Geoff Johns) I can tell you that such boards are heavily skewed towards fans of whatever company the writer works for. It’s not the best place to go for objective criticism.
Would you go to the aforementioned Geoff Johns board for ideas on “Civil War”? I wouldn’t — the vast majority of posters there are DC fanboys/fangirls. Though I haven’t been to Millar’s site, I imagine there’s a similar makeup among the posters.
Are there no “neutral” message boards you can go to for thoughts on OYL and other events throughout comics?
November 18th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Oops. Didn’t realize it wasn’t Millar himself who made those comments. I suppose the responsible thing to do is apologize and make sure I actually read the original discussion next time. You’d think, what with the recent elections, I’d get used to spotting things being taken out of context. So… sorry, Mr. Millar! We’re still cool! I hope my comments didn’t upset you too much!
November 18th, 2006 at 11:27 am
I have to agree. I am buying less DC titles than before IC for various reasons.
November 18th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
And yet I am buying less Marvel and more DC than ever before. You buy and read what you like.
This was a silly look from people who it has been stated, love the writer and dislike DC. Go to a DC popular board and you will get the opposite.
Sheesh!
November 18th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Millar is exclusive to Marvel.
Posters use his board to bash DC.
Millar allows them to continue.
No conflict of interest there.
November 20th, 2006 at 12:10 am
Since Millar didn’t actually say any of this, why did anyone bother bringing it up elsewhere. It’s just taking an opinion from some random person on his boards and trying to incite conflict by not clarifying that Millar didn’t say it.
(Yes, I get that I could click the link and see that, but not everyone will.)
November 20th, 2006 at 9:28 am
And it doesn’t help when Graeme justs says, “Millarworld considers…”. Perhaps it should’ve said “Benjamin C (over on Millarworld) considers…” to indicate that it’s just a poster on Millarworld and not Millar himself?
Regarding the actual issue, I think that frequently changing artists and writers does hurt comic book series. Personally, I would prefer an (above) average creative team on a book for a long period rather than a number of amazing teams for just a few issues at a time.
I don’t think DC are any worse than Marvel on this – although it would appear that Marvel now tends to prefer letting a book slip rather than replacing the team or getting in fill-ins (or so they tell us). Though I don’t think IC was supposed to solve the problem of DC employees (writers and artists) not meeting their deadlines. Right now, I’m not sure what it was supposed to ‘solve’, if anything.