Comments on: And Jethro Tull didn’t deserve a heavy metal Grammy http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/ The Blog@ Team and prominent comics personalities share what’s on their minds. Mon, 20 May 2013 14:13:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Kat Kan http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27647 Kat Kan Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:06:55 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27647 A certain point hasn't come up here but at another blog: someone said it was unfair to compare a graphic novel to a prose work. Well, ever since the Young People's Literature category was established in 1996, the judges have had to compare fiction, nonfiction, and poetry in the very same category. And, frankly, as someone who has served on national library award committees over the years for the Young Adult Library Services Association, I say our committees do this all the time. We don't consider it unfair. Why should Tony Long or anyone else make that complaint - what, are they too lazy to do what librarians have been doing for many decades? I have worked for more than two decades to get libraries and librarians to accept graphic novels and comics as a legitimate form of literature. I'm starting to see more mainstream acceptance of graphic novels and comics - in libraries and in schools. To me, the NBA nomination for American Born Chinese is a step in the natural progression of the legitimization and vindication of graphic novels and comics in the mainstream. But it's just one step and shouldn't end there. A certain point hasn’t come up here but at another blog: someone said it was unfair to compare a graphic novel to a prose work. Well, ever since the Young People’s Literature category was established in 1996, the judges have had to compare fiction, nonfiction, and poetry in the very same category. And, frankly, as someone who has served on national library award committees over the years for the Young Adult Library Services Association, I say our committees do this all the time. We don’t consider it unfair. Why should Tony Long or anyone else make that complaint – what, are they too lazy to do what librarians have been doing for many decades?

I have worked for more than two decades to get libraries and librarians to accept graphic novels and comics as a legitimate form of literature. I’m starting to see more mainstream acceptance of graphic novels and comics – in libraries and in schools. To me, the NBA nomination for American Born Chinese is a step in the natural progression of the legitimization and vindication of graphic novels and comics in the mainstream. But it’s just one step and shouldn’t end there.

]]> By: Kat Kan http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27634 Kat Kan Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:24:16 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27634 Now, we just have to see about getting some good adult-level graphic novels nominated in the adult levels of the National Book Awards. It just so happens that librarians and publishing people who work with youth (children's and teens') literature tend be more on the cutting edge and more receptive of new formats than the stodgier folk who work mostly with adult literary material. And that doesn't mean that you have to be young, either - I'm middle-aged! Now, we just have to see about getting some good adult-level graphic novels nominated in the adult levels of the National Book Awards. It just so happens that librarians and publishing people who work with youth (children’s and teens’) literature tend be more on the cutting edge and more receptive of new formats than the stodgier folk who work mostly with adult literary material. And that doesn’t mean that you have to be young, either – I’m middle-aged!

]]> By: Craig http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27630 Craig Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:58:14 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27630 The only caveat I would have of creating a seperate award for graphic novels would be that it MIGHT establish the two seprate forms in peoples' minds as seperate AND unequal in artistic merit. It's a seperation that can't be made AND retain respect for graphic novels without also creating a seperate award for poetry books, art books that might tell a story, etc, IN the end, though, the dude is still a dick. I was incensed enough to do a write up: http://whippersnapp.blogspot.com/2006/10/judging-book-by-its-illustrations-cs.html The only caveat I would have of creating a seperate award for graphic novels would be that it MIGHT establish the two seprate forms in peoples’ minds as seperate AND unequal in artistic merit. It’s a seperation that can’t be made AND retain respect for graphic novels without also creating a seperate award for poetry books, art books that might tell a story, etc,

IN the end, though, the dude is still a dick. I was incensed enough to do a write up:
http://whippersnapp.blogspot.com/2006/10/judging-book-by-its-illustrations-cs.html

]]> By: del gorky http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27594 del gorky Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:23:58 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27594 I wish the National Book Awards would establish a category specifically for graphic novels to recognize the unique characteristic of this product and its growth in sales through bookseller outlets. My problem would be having graphic novels pigeonholed each year as "Young People's Literature". Ignore the printed fiction snob. He's probably not even literate when it comes to reading comic books. He's just as bad as the comic fans that only read comics and despise books with more words than pictures. I wish the National Book Awards would establish a category specifically for graphic novels to recognize the unique characteristic of this product and its growth in sales through bookseller outlets.

My problem would be having graphic novels pigeonholed each year as “Young People’s Literature”.

Ignore the printed fiction snob. He’s probably not even literate when it comes to reading comic books. He’s just as bad as the comic fans that only read comics and despise books with more words than pictures.

]]> By: Greg http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27579 Greg Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:46:47 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27579 There's also the fact that Yang wrote AND drew the damned thing. That's pretty impressive. Lots of those novelists can't draw to save their lives, and lots of artists can't write (unless they're Rob Liefeld, of course!). I still don't understand what this guy's objection is to a BOOK getting nominated for the National BOOK Award. There’s also the fact that Yang wrote AND drew the damned thing. That’s pretty impressive. Lots of those novelists can’t draw to save their lives, and lots of artists can’t write (unless they’re Rob Liefeld, of course!).

I still don’t understand what this guy’s objection is to a BOOK getting nominated for the National BOOK Award.

]]> By: Nick Evans http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27544 Nick Evans Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:44:33 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27544 National Book Awards. Aren't poetry anthologies eligible too? National Book Awards. Aren’t poetry anthologies eligible too?

]]> By: Kat Kan http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27521 Kat Kan Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:28:48 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27521 The award for which American Born Chinese has been nominated is the National Book Award for Young People's Literature. Nowhere does it limit it to fiction or to prose works. The award is open to children's picture books as well as prose works. The fact that usually novels are nominated each year is due more to people's ignorance about good quality nonfiction for young people. A graphic novel is just as worthy of nomination as any other book format. And a graphic novel is a format, not a genre. And the best graphic novels don't necessarily substitute art for text, but combine the two into an inseparable whole in which one feeds upon and strengthens the other. The award for which American Born Chinese has been nominated is the National Book Award for Young People’s Literature. Nowhere does it limit it to fiction or to prose works. The award is open to children’s picture books as well as prose works. The fact that usually novels are nominated each year is due more to people’s ignorance about good quality nonfiction for young people. A graphic novel is just as worthy of nomination as any other book format. And a graphic novel is a format, not a genre. And the best graphic novels don’t necessarily substitute art for text, but combine the two into an inseparable whole in which one feeds upon and strengthens the other.

]]> By: PyD http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27510 PyD Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:47:34 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27510 Lurkerwhithout It was a World Fantasy Award for Best Short Fiction for Sandman #19 and its still an utter disgrace that they chaged the rules Single issue comicbooks - especially self contained issues are massively important examples of short fiction, serialised fiction, and particularly vital to the continued reinvigoration of the fantasy and sci fi genres. This man is an ass to make such a broad sweeping statement. The average Alan Moore script has more value as literature that the majority of novels published in the last decade. The fact he called it an illustrated story also belies a general ignorance of the nuance of the art form. Its very different thing to illustrate a prose narrative than it is to design a sequential narrative like a comic book - one is illustrating the text given the other is substiuted for that text. I don't think that comicbooks are novels and if the prize is designed to be given to novles then it should probably be given to a deserving novelist but comicbooks deserve recognition as having equal status as complex literary forms. To say otherwise shows a level of willful stupidity unworthy of any professional in the literary world. - seriously do some basic research into semiotic studies like those of Umberto Ecco and you'll see how similar the methods comicbook creators and novelists use are. Lurkerwhithout

It was a World Fantasy Award for Best Short Fiction for Sandman #19
and its still an utter disgrace that they chaged the rules
Single issue comicbooks – especially self contained issues are massively important examples of short fiction, serialised fiction, and particularly vital to the continued reinvigoration of the fantasy and sci fi genres.

This man is an ass to make such a broad sweeping statement. The average Alan Moore script has more value as literature that the majority of novels published in the last decade.

The fact he called it an illustrated story also belies a general ignorance of the nuance of the art form. Its very different thing to illustrate a prose narrative than it is to design a sequential narrative like a comic book – one is illustrating the text given the other is substiuted for that text.

I don’t think that comicbooks are novels and if the prize is designed to be given to novles then it should probably be given to a deserving novelist but comicbooks deserve recognition as having equal status as complex literary forms. To say otherwise shows a level of willful stupidity unworthy of any professional in the literary world. – seriously do some basic research into semiotic studies like those of Umberto Ecco and you’ll see how similar the methods comicbook creators and novelists use are.

]]> By: Jason Rodriguez http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27498 Jason Rodriguez Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:06:35 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27498 "This is simply to say that, as literature, the comic book does not deserve equal status with real novels, or short stories. It’s apples and oranges." A Michael Chrichton novel is [i]way[/i] superior to any comic every produced. “This is simply to say that, as literature, the comic book does not deserve equal status with real novels, or short stories. It’s apples and oranges.”

A Michael Chrichton novel is [i]way[/i] superior to any comic every produced.

]]> By: LurkerWithout http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27490 LurkerWithout Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:31:00 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27490 There was a similar stink way back when Gaiman (I think it was him) won either a Bram Stoker for a "comic" or it might have been one of the bigger Science Fiction awards (Hugo or something). I just remember they ended up changing the rules after that so comics couldn't be nominated and denigrate the art. Man my memory is garbage... There was a similar stink way back when Gaiman (I think it was him) won either a Bram Stoker for a “comic” or it might have been one of the bigger Science Fiction awards (Hugo or something). I just remember they ended up changing the rules after that so comics couldn’t be nominated and denigrate the art. Man my memory is garbage…

]]> By: Rob Monroe http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27481 Rob Monroe Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:08:58 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27481 If the National Book Award is intended to be awarded to novels, using the above definition, then a comic book (or graphic novel) would not qualify for the prize. But if this guy thinks that comics are lesser than "real novels" because of their form, he must have had a tantrum when "Maus" won the Pulitzer. If the National Book Award is intended to be awarded to novels, using the above definition, then a comic book (or graphic novel) would not qualify for the prize.

But if this guy thinks that comics are lesser than “real novels” because of their form, he must have had a tantrum when “Maus” won the Pulitzer.

]]> By: Robert Helmerichs http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27475 Robert Helmerichs Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:00:25 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27475 Well, that definition--"a prose narrative"--pretty clearly excludes graphic novels. So, snideness aside, he makes a good point, and you provide good evidence for it. Well, that definition–”a prose narrative”–pretty clearly excludes graphic novels. So, snideness aside, he makes a good point, and you provide good evidence for it.

]]> By: Nimbus http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/comment-page-1/#comment-27473 Nimbus Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:54:29 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/27/and-jethro-tull-didnt-deserve-a-heavy-metal-grammy/#comment-27473 <i>“the comic book does not deserve equal status with real novels” — isn’t doing anything to endear me to his stance</i> Yeah, me too. And anyway, isn't it the National <b>Book</b> Award. Not the National Novel Award (or "novel"). He even calls them comic <b>books</b>. Perhaps he thinks sculptures aren't art because, well, they're not paintings hung on a wall, are they? “the comic book does not deserve equal status with real novels” — isn’t doing anything to endear me to his stance

Yeah, me too.

And anyway, isn’t it the National Book Award. Not the National Novel Award (or “novel”). He even calls them comic books.

Perhaps he thinks sculptures aren’t art because, well, they’re not paintings hung on a wall, are they?

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