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	<title>Comments on: Amateur Art Appreciation: Reality</title>
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	<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/</link>
	<description>The Blog@ Team and prominent comics personalities share what’s on their minds.</description>
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		<title>By: Marionette</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-23478</link>
		<dc:creator>Marionette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/#comment-23478</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never been keen on the photorealistic end of the artistic spectrum.  Why spend all day producing a piece of artwork that looks like a photograph when you could have taken a photograph?

You only have to look at TV and movies where they have tried to make real people work as superheroes and failed to plainly see that superheroes cannot stand too much realism.  The most successful superhero movies are the ones where they have moved the furthest from the comic book visuals.  Reimagining comic characters to follow suit destroys the whole unique core of superhero comics.

Sure, there&#039;s a place for Alex Ross.  But it shouldn&#039;t be at the centre for every other artist to aspire to, it should be one unique flavour among many, used to tell a particular type of story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been keen on the photorealistic end of the artistic spectrum.  Why spend all day producing a piece of artwork that looks like a photograph when you could have taken a photograph?</p>
<p>You only have to look at TV and movies where they have tried to make real people work as superheroes and failed to plainly see that superheroes cannot stand too much realism.  The most successful superhero movies are the ones where they have moved the furthest from the comic book visuals.  Reimagining comic characters to follow suit destroys the whole unique core of superhero comics.</p>
<p>Sure, there&#8217;s a place for Alex Ross.  But it shouldn&#8217;t be at the centre for every other artist to aspire to, it should be one unique flavour among many, used to tell a particular type of story.</p>
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		<title>By: afdumin</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-23442</link>
		<dc:creator>afdumin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/#comment-23442</guid>
		<description>Nice essay, Lisa. You might also find this one interesting, as it brings up some of the very same points that you do:

http://theculturalgutter.com/guest_star/godzilla_vs_mecharealism.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice essay, Lisa. You might also find this one interesting, as it brings up some of the very same points that you do:</p>
<p><a href="http://theculturalgutter.com/guest_star/godzilla_vs_mecharealism.html" rel="nofollow">http://theculturalgutter.com/guest_star/godzilla_vs_mecharealism.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: jake saint</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-23353</link>
		<dc:creator>jake saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/#comment-23353</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t very fond of Wieringo&#039;s work at the beginning of his FF run with Waid.  I accepted it, but it seemed a bit cartoony to me.  Then sometime in the middle of an issue in the second or third arc, I had a &quot;Holy hell!!&quot; moment and leapt from accepting Ringo&#039;s work straight to realizing &lt;i&gt;how good&lt;/i&gt; it is.  I flipped back through the first half of the issue, then flipped through some of the previous issues to confirm that, yes, there it was-- a kind of &lt;i&gt;ease of unity&lt;/i&gt; where the attractive, broadly stroked figures sat naturally into backgrounds I&#039;d heretofore ignored, surprising in their detail, yet subtle in their construction.  Despite the occassional wayward upper lip or lock of hair, I&#039;d gladly follow Ringo onto any title.

As to realism, I think in relation to  fightin&#039;-panty-man comics, we need to look at &lt;i&gt;dynamic realism&lt;/i&gt;, perhaps best defined by Neal Adams&#039;s work.  This style avoids the &quot;uncanny valley&quot; by distressing a realistic root with extreme design concepts-- they place the realism within the confines of the medium (an unreality) by engaging the possibilites of the medium.  A sort of &quot;Polishing the window in the fourth wall&quot;, to maim a metaphor.  

(As an aside, I really hope that Marvel prints Essential Moon Knight vol. 2, for no other reason than to watch Bill Sienkiewicz&#039;s e-/de- volution from his Adams influence.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t very fond of Wieringo&#8217;s work at the beginning of his FF run with Waid.  I accepted it, but it seemed a bit cartoony to me.  Then sometime in the middle of an issue in the second or third arc, I had a &#8220;Holy hell!!&#8221; moment and leapt from accepting Ringo&#8217;s work straight to realizing <i>how good</i> it is.  I flipped back through the first half of the issue, then flipped through some of the previous issues to confirm that, yes, there it was&#8211; a kind of <i>ease of unity</i> where the attractive, broadly stroked figures sat naturally into backgrounds I&#8217;d heretofore ignored, surprising in their detail, yet subtle in their construction.  Despite the occassional wayward upper lip or lock of hair, I&#8217;d gladly follow Ringo onto any title.</p>
<p>As to realism, I think in relation to  fightin&#8217;-panty-man comics, we need to look at <i>dynamic realism</i>, perhaps best defined by Neal Adams&#8217;s work.  This style avoids the &#8220;uncanny valley&#8221; by distressing a realistic root with extreme design concepts&#8211; they place the realism within the confines of the medium (an unreality) by engaging the possibilites of the medium.  A sort of &#8220;Polishing the window in the fourth wall&#8221;, to maim a metaphor.  </p>
<p>(As an aside, I really hope that Marvel prints Essential Moon Knight vol. 2, for no other reason than to watch Bill Sienkiewicz&#8217;s e-/de- volution from his Adams influence.)</p>
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		<title>By: david brothers</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/comment-page-1/#comment-23340</link>
		<dc:creator>david brothers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/10/13/amateur-art-appreciation-reality/#comment-23340</guid>
		<description>Rushkoff is all over the place. I think I&#039;ve got a couple Disinfo books featuring him.

I agree with what you&#039;re saying here, and there is actually a specific term for this phenomenon-- &quot;Uncanny valley.&quot; It&#039;s used in video games, mostly.

In short, the closer things are to looking real, the more real we expect them to look. We stop forgiving the little tics, like maybe an awkward nose or too-far-apart eyes or an asymmetrical face because these things look &lt;i&gt;so&lt;/i&gt; real that they shouldn&#039;t have those errors. These pseudoreal people rub real people wrong. They look unnatural. This is why most CG movies have stuck to cartoon animals-- there&#039;s less of an uncanny valley to worry about.

I&#039;m with you on this. It is my (not so secret) shame that I do not like Alex Ross&#039;s work in general. His characters don&#039;t look like superheroes to me. They&#039;re real people in saggy tights. It&#039;s too realistic, and so realistic as to be off-putting.

The only super-realistic artist I really enjoy is Bryan Hitch, especially now that he&#039;s moved away from his Alan Davis roots. Ultimates, ugly though the story may be, is a joy to look at. Hitch has found that middle ground between real and cartoon and makes it work.

My favorite artists, though, don&#039;t subscribe to that kind of realism. Humberto Ramos, Skottie Young, Mike Wieringo, and JRjr present a more cartoony version of realism, where characters have their own little bubble of what&#039;s believable and what&#039;s not. Frank Miller goes for edges and outlines and silhouettes to imply real life, even as he&#039;s drawing a cartoon. Jim Lee tosses a thin veneer of realism on his work, but underneath, it&#039;s a cartoon, as well. David Mack is another whose characters &lt;i&gt;look&lt;/i&gt; real without being realistic. Alex Maleev works in a kind of Sin City aesthetic, too, with shadows defining characters.

For my money, the most realistic artist working in comics is Eduardo Risso. He beats out Quitely in my opinion, even though Risso isn&#039;t traditionally a realist. His characters, though, act and look real. You can see the uncertainty in Dizzy&#039;s posture when Branch is quizzing her in Parlez Kung Vous, or the open admiration in Lono&#039;s eyes when he realizes who Loop&#039;s father is. His people are just real enough to remind us of real people, without making us go &quot;Ew, that doesn&#039;t look right.&quot; This is part of why 100 Bullets is the best monthly comic out.

The only thing I don&#039;t really agree with you on is a matter of pure opinion. The Silver Age is nice, and I can definitely appreciate a lot of it, but give me the Modern Age any day. There seems to be much more variety and less of a &quot;house style&quot; at work nowadays. Ramos on Wolverine is a curveball, but it&#039;s turned into a rocking old fashioned superhero tale. Sean Phillips on a series about superhero zombies eating each other is another thing that probably would&#039;ve gotten a Byrne or Layton back in the &#039;80s, but Marvel took a chance with a decidedly non-mainstream style and nailed a homer.

I do so love me some Kirby and JRsr, though, so there&#039;s no way I could completely choose the Modern Age of the Silver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rushkoff is all over the place. I think I&#8217;ve got a couple Disinfo books featuring him.</p>
<p>I agree with what you&#8217;re saying here, and there is actually a specific term for this phenomenon&#8211; &#8220;Uncanny valley.&#8221; It&#8217;s used in video games, mostly.</p>
<p>In short, the closer things are to looking real, the more real we expect them to look. We stop forgiving the little tics, like maybe an awkward nose or too-far-apart eyes or an asymmetrical face because these things look <i>so</i> real that they shouldn&#8217;t have those errors. These pseudoreal people rub real people wrong. They look unnatural. This is why most CG movies have stuck to cartoon animals&#8211; there&#8217;s less of an uncanny valley to worry about.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you on this. It is my (not so secret) shame that I do not like Alex Ross&#8217;s work in general. His characters don&#8217;t look like superheroes to me. They&#8217;re real people in saggy tights. It&#8217;s too realistic, and so realistic as to be off-putting.</p>
<p>The only super-realistic artist I really enjoy is Bryan Hitch, especially now that he&#8217;s moved away from his Alan Davis roots. Ultimates, ugly though the story may be, is a joy to look at. Hitch has found that middle ground between real and cartoon and makes it work.</p>
<p>My favorite artists, though, don&#8217;t subscribe to that kind of realism. Humberto Ramos, Skottie Young, Mike Wieringo, and JRjr present a more cartoony version of realism, where characters have their own little bubble of what&#8217;s believable and what&#8217;s not. Frank Miller goes for edges and outlines and silhouettes to imply real life, even as he&#8217;s drawing a cartoon. Jim Lee tosses a thin veneer of realism on his work, but underneath, it&#8217;s a cartoon, as well. David Mack is another whose characters <i>look</i> real without being realistic. Alex Maleev works in a kind of Sin City aesthetic, too, with shadows defining characters.</p>
<p>For my money, the most realistic artist working in comics is Eduardo Risso. He beats out Quitely in my opinion, even though Risso isn&#8217;t traditionally a realist. His characters, though, act and look real. You can see the uncertainty in Dizzy&#8217;s posture when Branch is quizzing her in Parlez Kung Vous, or the open admiration in Lono&#8217;s eyes when he realizes who Loop&#8217;s father is. His people are just real enough to remind us of real people, without making us go &#8220;Ew, that doesn&#8217;t look right.&#8221; This is part of why 100 Bullets is the best monthly comic out.</p>
<p>The only thing I don&#8217;t really agree with you on is a matter of pure opinion. The Silver Age is nice, and I can definitely appreciate a lot of it, but give me the Modern Age any day. There seems to be much more variety and less of a &#8220;house style&#8221; at work nowadays. Ramos on Wolverine is a curveball, but it&#8217;s turned into a rocking old fashioned superhero tale. Sean Phillips on a series about superhero zombies eating each other is another thing that probably would&#8217;ve gotten a Byrne or Layton back in the &#8217;80s, but Marvel took a chance with a decidedly non-mainstream style and nailed a homer.</p>
<p>I do so love me some Kirby and JRsr, though, so there&#8217;s no way I could completely choose the Modern Age of the Silver.</p>
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