To celebrate the end of this surprisingly long week, a question for all of you. Which comic professional needs to engage their brain before posting to message boards more often? Is it Mark Millar, in his thread at Millarworld entitled “I just saw a black Downs Syndrome guy, First time ever“?:
Tweaking the dialogue on Ultimates 12 before it leaves for the printer tomorrow (38 whopping pages), but nipped out for a much-needed haircut and a break. While down at the shops, I saw a black guy with DS. Amazing, as this is something my friends and I had queried for years. Is DS genetically localized to Caucasians.
Yes, I’m now about to waste 20 mins phoning a couple of my pals to say so, but now me appetite has been whet and I’m curious if there are any Chinese or Indian Downs Syndrome people out there. Given that Scotland is almost entirely white my chances of seeing one here are slim, but I’m certainly on the look out now.
Later, he adds:
It must be a common question. My pal Ray asks this almost every week in the pub. I wish I had a picturephone so I could have snapped the guy and shown everyone tonight when I’m down there for the footie.
He also offers “A No Prize for the first pic, surely!”, and when someone does provide said photo, writes “This is the best thread in quite some time.”
In the other corner – but still dealing with race – does your vote lie with John Byrne?:
When I was a child in England, “nigger” was a perfectly harmless word, and lots of people named their black dogs or cats that. The actual title of Agatha Christie’s novel is “Ten Little Niggers”, from the rhyme of the same name. On the other hand, the quickest way to get punched out by someone of Sub-Saharan African decent was to call them “black”. That was the Number One slur, and was used for just about anybody who wasn’t White, regardless of their actual ethnicity. (My maternal grandfather — a policeman, no less! — hardly ever used it without “bloody” in front. Indians, for instance, were “bloody blacks”.)
Thru-out much of my childhood and even early adolescence, the “correct” word for African people was “Negro”. No one in polite society would ever have considered using anything else.
I still cringe a bit when people say “Black”.
I’ll leave the final judgement up to you, dear readers. Have fun in the comments thread.
September 8th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Mark is an absolute brilliant writer who frequently posts stupid things in an effort to draw attention to himself. Mark must stop posting when he’s drunk (it must be beer, because no one who writes as well as he can possibly be stupid).
Byrne is an artist who frequently posts stupid and hurtful thing in an effort to draw attention to himself. He also has this thing about using the “N” word, despite knowing how much it bothers some people.
Hurtful, racist, and stupid beats out had too much to drink and posted something stupid.
September 8th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Gotta agree. I wouldn’t give Millar such a pass, but his musings here are more like your garden variety, harmless frat boy stuff (which can be funny). Byrne just keeps pushing that N word time and time again…even when he has someone he’s discussing it with who asks him to refrain…he’ll respond back with the N word immediately in direct response.
September 8th, 2006 at 12:05 pm
Mark brings back fond memories of growing up in the 1970s when on long car trips my brothers and I would play “Ethnic Downs Syndrome Backseat Bingo.”
September 8th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
What color is the sky in Mark Millar’s world?
My money’s on Puce.
September 8th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
Millar comes across less like someone who is trying to say outrageous things and more like an idiot who is vaguely interested in a question, but can’t be bothered to do a little basic research himself to find out whether his presuppostions are true or not (it’s called Google, Mark, learn to use it with a pinch of critical thinking BEFORE you start asking questions and you’ll sound a bit less stupid).
Byrne, on the other hand, sounds like a cranky old guy who sees the need to complain about every insignificant irritant that comes across his path. If something irritates him, it must be complained about, bitterly and at length, every time it crosses his neural pathways. But if something irritates someone else but doesn’t irritate Byrne personally, then clearly that person is a fool and deserves whatever mocking Byrne feels like dishing out. The older he gets, the worse it seems to get. (Or maybe its just because he doesn’t have an editor on this stuff now – you can see the same sorts of angry rantings in his editorials in the back of his issues of Next Men from the 90s, but they’re not as bad as the stuff that shows up on his board).
So of the two, Byrne wins. Because Millar just sounds like any other idiot on the Internets, while Byrne is something special all on his own.
September 8th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Now guys the question is which one needs to engage his brain more, not which is worse. Obviously the answer is Millar as his writing usually portrays him as someone more intelligent than the clown who wrote that post. Byrne seems more like he plans his own controversy. I give him credit for at least trying to manipulate the world to agree with his own assumptions about human behavior. Millar is just acting like an idiot.
September 8th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
When did John Byrne become the William Shatner of comics? It’s like he’s more famous for being John Byrne than for his writing.
September 8th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
I almost want to give Byrne a pass, because I don’t really expect anything worthwhile to spill out of his brain. But I can’t, because I don’t really expect anything from Millar, either. It’s kind of a draw. Millar gets a gold star for almost making me shoot coffee out of my nose just now.
September 8th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
John Byrne is a writer?
September 8th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
I don’t know. Byrne just sounds like he’s reflecting on the changed meanings of terms. Millar just sounds like a jerk.
September 8th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Wow.
September 8th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Mark Millar is self-centered and purely interested in drawing attention to himself (as a casual visit to his forum will reveal). He’s like the kid in the back of the class who was always pulling some dumb “look at me, look at me!!!” stunt because he was desperate for attention and adoration. I sort of think of him as the comics industry’s equivalent of Michael Jackson. Except, like, not famous.
Byrne’s just an outright loon. That will nver change.
September 8th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
“Mark Millar is self-centered and purely interested in drawing attention to himself”
Couldn’t the same also be applied to Byrne, too, and the outright loon term could still be applied to Byrne?
September 8th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Jake, I suppose you’re right, yes, that does apply to Byrne, too. I think Millar’s got a much firmer grasp on reality, though–but both of them certainly suffer from delusions of grandeur.
September 8th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
“but both of them certainly suffer from delusions of grandeur.”
And sycophants.
September 8th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
I read Byrne’s comments in context. It was part of a larger discussion on terms to indicate race and ethnicity. He WAS talking about how words had changed. He WASN’T reminicing about the ‘good old days’. He WASN’T excusing any use of the terms. It was no more racist then a person explaining the UK meaning of the term fag is homophobic.
I’m pretty disapointed with the way Newsarama framed his quote.
Reading Millar’s quote in context however just makes him look like more of an ass.
September 8th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Did I mention I hate Bush and all he stands for? Bush, Byrne, Millar and all the rest make me sick to be a part of Western Society.
September 9th, 2006 at 9:10 am
Eh, I must admit Byrne has a point.
September 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Just imagine if John Byrne replaced Frank Miller on All-Star Batman and Mark Millar replaced Grant Morrison on All-Star Superman.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Between these ignorant dorks, I’d say Millar is at least making it easy to laugh at him. Naivity makes people human… and Millar comes off like an impulsive, curious but callous kid. The lack of mean spirited-ness of his qoute made it easier to laugh hard… especially considering that my brother is autistic (and no, it’s not Asperger’s) and some of his classmates have DS.
John Byrne though…. for this and many other qoutes…. is a fu*king doosh bag (misspelled on purpose). Sure, his artwork was great when I was a kid… but he’s now a hack ho spends too much time spewing his ignorance online rather than salvaging any relevancy and dignity he might have left. His artwork is turd now, and I can see why. I’m still amazed at veterans like George Perez and Alan Davis who still amaze with their artwork.
moral of the story: talk-less, create more.
September 15th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Mark Millar’s post never offended me, and i see nothing wrong with it. Those who were offended, are maybe taking the moral high ground and are probably coated in hypocracy.
Byrne reminds me of my Grandad. A narc. But let him be, freedom of speech and all that.