Comments on: J-L-Ego http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/ The Blog@ Team and prominent comics personalities share what’s on their minds. Fri, 24 May 2013 11:19:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: calvin frank http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-564107 calvin frank Mon, 17 Jan 2011 19:54:37 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-564107 I ran into this page accidentally, surprisingly, this is a great website. The site owner has carried out a superb job of putting it together, the info here is really and helpful when i do research. You just secured yourself a guarenteed reader. I ran into this page accidentally, surprisingly, this is a great website. The site owner has carried out a superb job of putting it together, the info here is really and helpful when i do research. You just secured yourself a guarenteed reader.

]]> By: David Horenstein http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13876 David Horenstein Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:08:42 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13876 So does this mean that Nightwing's name becomes the "Yankee" after the world's best baseball team? So does this mean that Nightwing’s name becomes the “Yankee” after the world’s best baseball team?

]]> By: longshot7 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13861 longshot7 Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:15:37 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13861 Yes, but Arsenal is the name of the world's best football team, so it stays...... Yes, but Arsenal is the name of the world’s best football team, so it stays……

]]> By: David Horenstein http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13763 David Horenstein Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:30:11 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13763 I like Vixen and I'm happy that she's a member. But, Black Lightning doesn't belong. I'd have preferred Cyborg over Black Lightning since he better fits the criteria the JLA was established on. But, I have no problem at all that Meltzer is trying to add diversity to the JLA. I like Roy Harper and any former member of the Teen Titans belongs in the JLA. But, I can't stand the name Arsenal. For three reasons: A) It's a lame code-name created during the worst era in comic book history. Gunfire, Bloodwynd, Bloodsport, etc., all those lame names from the ninties should be forgotten. Can't Superboy Prime punch a wall again? B) It isn't actually true. Since he only uses a bow and arrow. That's hardly what I think of when I hear the word "arsenal." C) It doesn't have the flair a DC Hero should possess. Red Arrow, Red Archer, or anything that is unique would be better. I like Vixen and I’m happy that she’s a member. But, Black Lightning doesn’t belong. I’d have preferred Cyborg over Black Lightning since he better fits the criteria the JLA was established on. But, I have no problem at all that Meltzer is trying to add diversity to the JLA.

I like Roy Harper and any former member of the Teen Titans belongs in the JLA. But, I can’t stand the name Arsenal. For three reasons:

A) It’s a lame code-name created during the worst era in comic book history. Gunfire, Bloodwynd, Bloodsport, etc., all those lame names from the ninties should be forgotten. Can’t Superboy Prime punch a wall again?

B) It isn’t actually true. Since he only uses a bow and arrow. That’s hardly what I think of when I hear the word “arsenal.”

C) It doesn’t have the flair a DC Hero should possess. Red Arrow, Red Archer, or anything that is unique would be better.

]]> By: Vincent J. Murphy http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13754 Vincent J. Murphy Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:49:35 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13754 "the new Justice Society will have its own version of the Detroit Leaguer Steel" Which, to some extent, is returning the character to his roots: before the "de-aged" Steel in the Detroit League (the original's son?), there was the first Steel, an older WWII type character. “the new Justice Society will have its own version of the Detroit Leaguer Steel”

Which, to some extent, is returning the character to his roots: before the “de-aged” Steel in the Detroit League (the original’s son?), there was the first Steel, an older WWII type character.

]]> By: DrObviousSo http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13743 DrObviousSo Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:59:45 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13743 Cole, I think for a lot of "ego-characters", you may have a good point. However, allow me to provide a detailed, in depth, counter point: Mantis Cole, I think for a lot of “ego-characters”, you may have a good point.

However, allow me to provide a detailed, in depth, counter point:
Mantis

]]> By: Tom Bondurant http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13735 Tom Bondurant Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:30:24 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13735 That's a good point. Again, I'm not trying to say that this is a bad practice, but the all-star nature of the Justice League tends to impose fannish standards on the membership, and the characters involved are viewed suspiciously as a result. I like Firestorm fine, and think the concept is pretty cool. However, if someone other than his creator brought him onto the team, it might make his acceptance a little easier. For the most part, it goes back to the stereotypical knee-jerk fanboy reaction against new things, doesn't it? As always, the proof is in the reading.... That’s a good point. Again, I’m not trying to say that this is a bad practice, but the all-star nature of the Justice League tends to impose fannish standards on the membership, and the characters involved are viewed suspiciously as a result. I like Firestorm fine, and think the concept is pretty cool. However, if someone other than his creator brought him onto the team, it might make his acceptance a little easier.

For the most part, it goes back to the stereotypical knee-jerk fanboy reaction against new things, doesn’t it? As always, the proof is in the reading….

]]> By: Cole Moore Odell http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13730 Cole Moore Odell Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:51:55 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13730 I think the discussion of "ego characters" (a term I disliked from the first time I saw it) misses a writer's probable primary motivation for them; that they allow the writer the ability to actually have character/plot development within the team book. These characters tend to be lesser lights without any significant outside editorial control. It's almost impossible to develop Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman within the pages of JLA--their various offices run those characters, and dictate what happens to each character, and in what book. The b-listers and new inventions give a team-book writer room to breathe--start a romance, build a real mystery, kill someone off. etc. Gerry Conway using Firestorm in JLA was at least as much a matter of practicality and access as one of "ego". I think the discussion of “ego characters” (a term I disliked from the first time I saw it) misses a writer’s probable primary motivation for them; that they allow the writer the ability to actually have character/plot development within the team book. These characters tend to be lesser lights without any significant outside editorial control. It’s almost impossible to develop Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman within the pages of JLA–their various offices run those characters, and dictate what happens to each character, and in what book. The b-listers and new inventions give a team-book writer room to breathe–start a romance, build a real mystery, kill someone off. etc. Gerry Conway using Firestorm in JLA was at least as much a matter of practicality and access as one of “ego”.

]]> By: Tom Bondurant http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13727 Tom Bondurant Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:26:57 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13727 It may be splitting hairs, but I don't think Waid cleaned house as much as Morrison did it for him. In "World War III," Batman fired Huntress, Zauriel sacrificed himself, and Barda and Orion went back to New Genesis once Mageddon was dispatched. That left Steel and Plastic Man, and Waid kept Plas (so did Joe Kelly, until the end of "The Obsidian Age"). I don't remember how Morrison might have gotten rid of Steel, but "WWIII" ended with a big splash page of the entire League, which was his original seven plus Plastic Man. Anyway, I agree that later writers help define the success of their predecessors' lineups, but I think the ego characters themselves tend to be associated strongly with their particular teams and writers. Vixen and Gypsy have had a lot of rehabilitation to overcome any lingering Detroit stigma, and Meltzer's working overtime to make Red Tornado cool. He must also make a good case for Arsenal and Black Lightning. I'm not saying it can't be done; just that for better or worse, he'll be remembered for the attempt. It may be splitting hairs, but I don’t think Waid cleaned house as much as Morrison did it for him. In “World War III,” Batman fired Huntress, Zauriel sacrificed himself, and Barda and Orion went back to New Genesis once Mageddon was dispatched. That left Steel and Plastic Man, and Waid kept Plas (so did Joe Kelly, until the end of “The Obsidian Age”). I don’t remember how Morrison might have gotten rid of Steel, but “WWIII” ended with a big splash page of the entire League, which was his original seven plus Plastic Man.

Anyway, I agree that later writers help define the success of their predecessors’ lineups, but I think the ego characters themselves tend to be associated strongly with their particular teams and writers. Vixen and Gypsy have had a lot of rehabilitation to overcome any lingering Detroit stigma, and Meltzer’s working overtime to make Red Tornado cool. He must also make a good case for Arsenal and Black Lightning.

I’m not saying it can’t be done; just that for better or worse, he’ll be remembered for the attempt.

]]> By: Josh http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13716 Josh Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:18:56 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13716 "Even so, while it may be too early to tell how Meltzer’s run will be remembered, it seems certain that his ego characters will help define it." I think that Meltzer's run will be remembered in one of two ways: 1. A great start to a series before it really took off and got excellent. or 2. A decent start to a series that quickly turned bad. Meltzer's run of thirteen (with the zero issue, I guess) is just too short for him to have a lasting impact on the series, especially if the next writer sticks around for a long time and great artists keep coming in. Thirteen issues is just a short blip in a series that will probably last for over a hundred issues. As for his "ego characters" defining it, we'll have to wait and see if the next creative team will come in and clean house, much like Mark Waid did when he stepped in after Morrisonn left. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I doubt that all his "ego characters" will make a huge enough impact on the League that the next team will want to keep all of them around. I do hope that they keep Black Lightening around, though, he needs more exposure. Who ever takes over next, please, give him back his hair. Not all male, black characters need to be bald. “Even so, while it may be too early to tell how Meltzer’s run will be remembered, it seems certain that his ego characters will help define it.”

I think that Meltzer’s run will be remembered in one of two ways:
1. A great start to a series before it really took off and got excellent.
or 2. A decent start to a series that quickly turned bad.

Meltzer’s run of thirteen (with the zero issue, I guess) is just too short for him to have a lasting impact on the series, especially if the next writer sticks around for a long time and great artists keep coming in.

Thirteen issues is just a short blip in a series that will probably last for over a hundred issues.

As for his “ego characters” defining it, we’ll have to wait and see if the next creative team will come in and clean house, much like Mark Waid did when he stepped in after Morrisonn left. I’d like to be proven wrong, but I doubt that all his “ego characters” will make a huge enough impact on the League that the next team will want to keep all of them around.

I do hope that they keep Black Lightening around, though, he needs more exposure. Who ever takes over next, please, give him back his hair. Not all male, black characters need to be bald.

]]> By: Mike Nicolai http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13705 Mike Nicolai Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:03:01 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13705 I've re-read some of the early Firestorm's lately and they don't hold up very well. Ronnie Raymond comes off as a Peter Parker clone (no pun intended), and the stories are just relly dated. I think the new series does a great job of telling the same types of stories in a really modern context, and has been one of my favorite DC books for the last year. My only complaint about the new series: no Martian Manhunter. It just doesn't feel the same. I thought Arsenal was a good choice, Ollie has his hands full anyway. I was a little underwhelemed with the choice of Vixen, but her appearence in the first issue had promise. Everyone picked seems to have been picked for a reason, we just have to see how it pans out. I’ve re-read some of the early Firestorm’s lately and they don’t hold up very well. Ronnie Raymond comes off as a Peter Parker clone (no pun intended), and the stories are just relly dated. I think the new series does a great job of telling the same types of stories in a really modern context, and has been one of my favorite DC books for the last year.

My only complaint about the new series: no Martian Manhunter. It just doesn’t feel the same. I thought Arsenal was a good choice, Ollie has his hands full anyway. I was a little underwhelemed with the choice of Vixen, but her appearence in the first issue had promise. Everyone picked seems to have been picked for a reason, we just have to see how it pans out.

]]> By: del gorky http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/comment-page-1/#comment-13699 del gorky Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:29:20 +0000 http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/08/31/j-l-ego/#comment-13699 I believe the additions of Vixen and Black Lightning are attempts to continue to diversify the league or "color it up" as Benetton would say. The addition of Arsenal mystifies me; this may be an ego character since Meltzer might be fascinated with him given his Green Arrow run. My big hope is that the comic will be consistent and good. Many of the eras you cited above, Dan Jurgens, Detroit League, JLXtreme and Europe were not. I think of all the "inserted" characters that Firestorm has been the most successful. People still have affection for the character despite the current series has jerked around the characters status quo a million times and replaced fan favorite Ronnie Raymond. I believe the additions of Vixen and Black Lightning are attempts to continue to diversify the league or “color it up” as Benetton would say. The addition of Arsenal mystifies me; this may be an ego character since Meltzer might be fascinated with him given his Green Arrow run.

My big hope is that the comic will be consistent and good. Many of the eras you cited above, Dan Jurgens, Detroit League, JLXtreme and Europe were not. I think of all the “inserted” characters that Firestorm has been the most successful. People still have affection for the character despite the current series has jerked around the characters status quo a million times and replaced fan favorite Ronnie Raymond.

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